Re: New Era, VB, Delphi, PB

Tim Schaefer wrote: > > Mark D. Stock wrote: > > Look, if you don't want to use NewEra just yet and you want to stick to > > good old 4GL, then just come right out and say it Tim. :-) > > > Actually, I'm over 4GL, have been for quite some time. It was a great > product and occasionally I still use it. I've been having more fun with > ESQL/C, Java, and some design work of late. That's interesting. So do you think 4GL is dead? > > Your points are all basically valid, but a little cynical. With every new > > development tool that comes out you have the catch-22 situation, where > > clients are reluctant to buy because there are no software shops to > > support them, and software shops are reluctant to train people up when > > there are no active projects. > > If you haven't consulted in the states recently, you haven't seen the > typical site. It consists of a lot of managers that aren't technical, > and do a bad job of managing. Lots of new-to-Informix people making a > nice mess of things being led by the bad managers. :-) Dilbert is so > appropos it isn't funny. I can't understand it. I talk to consultants > all over the U.S.A., and the story is the same. I've never even stepped foot in the states, so I take your point that things are a lot different over there. > Florida is a state where no matter where you go, the consultants are hated. > The employees are resentful of the higher-paid consultants. Managers who > can barely tie their shoes tell me they'll bring me on full-time at a > laughable salary. "Oh, we can't afford to pay you what you're making as a > consultant". They'll also be well below the mark for a benefit-laden salary, > "because it's Florida...". Geez, yes I'm cynical. It's a grim situation. Now THIS does sounds familiar. :-) > I'll show up to a new consulting position and sit for a week or two while > the brain-dead networking group gets around to getting me set up on the > network, and get a cube set up. I've waited up to 3 weeks waiting for > a cube and a place to work, and collected a check for it. Absolutely > amazing. And corporate America wonders why the morale is so low, or > why there's no loyalty. Cynical? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Steady! > :-) I'm beyond cynical. I've been to a site of late that uses consultants > to build morale among the employees by treating the consultants bad. > "See, look how good you got it compared to that consultant". It's > rampant stupidity in America. Gees, I'm beginning to appreciate my absence already. > > I think you are wrong about people using different suppliers. People > > generally select a company to supply their database, then they use the > > tools offered by that company. People select a hardware platform, then > > they get all their hardware requirements from that supplier. > > C'mon Mark, I thought you were smarter than that. :-) Maybe that's how you > do it in S.A., but not here. The product mix at a typical site is so > varied here in the states. Informix is rubbing elbows with the likes > of SQLServer, Oracle, DB2, and a myriad of interfaces. And hardware? > Even small sites are a varied mix of hardware and software. There's > a lot of sites with several different Informix customers at the same > company. Different budgets, agendas, hardware. Yes I am smarter that most give me credit for, and yes that's how we do it is RSA. ;-) > > So your ideal of using multiple vendors will become a reality in time, I > > am sure. But at this point if Informix say they have a new wonder-tool, > > then Informix clients will upgrade. If Oracle say they have a new engine, > > then Oracle clients will upgrade (in a flash :-). > > Well, I see a varied mix NOW, and I think it'll continue. Even Informix is > buying an eclectic mix of products, putting their name on it, and offering > it. You almost need a scorecard. Okay, so USA is different to RSA, point made (again :). Informix has always done that. In fact, if you look at their history, they should be selling off NewEra (their only GUI development tool) any moment now. ;-) > > It may be just my warped sense of the universe, but to me the whole > > industry has come full circle over the last ten years. With a return now > > to host-centric systems with dumb or thin clients, running 3GL's like > > Java. >8-) > > Yes, we're back to terminal based sytems with one major difference. If > the Network Computer becomes a reality, think about this: > If the server crashes on a character-based system, the user could not work. > If the server crashes on an NC, the user could theoretically continue to > work, depending on the app because the app is LOCAL to the terminal. This > is a profound difference to the server-centric character-based systems. Not much when you consider the intended concept of the 'application' being simply a browser. The only concept that will keep a browser running is being able to have inteligence about what to do and where to go if the server or link goes down. > I think a lot of managers here in the states long for the day when their > workers are not downloading shareware GUI apps for their computers. They > will have all their favorite PC apps running on a GUI terminal, only it > won't be Xterm, or a fat-client app it'll be a GUI app they could run on a > PC. And they'll actually be WORKING, a concept lost in a lot of companies. > Microsloth is not too happy about Java and NC. Already there's enough Java > out there to make a PC look silly. ActiveX? Ha! Why bother??? Oh sure, but it's the same game, different rules. If Microbucks can't play with the new rules, then I'm happy for them :-)) <Soapbox hastily converted into gallows by angry mob, who then pull the lev..> Cheers, -- Mark. +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Mark D. Stock - The West Solutions Group http://www.west.co.za | | The Informix FAQ is at http://www.iiug.org | |mailto:marks@west.co.za +------------------------------------------------+ |Tel: +27 11 803 2151 |If it doesn't work... force it! | |Fax: +27 11 803 2189 |If it breaks... it needed replacing anyway! | |Cell: +27 83 250 2325 |Well, that's how I code anyway! | +------------------------+------------------------------------------------+