RE: IDS to DB2 conversion

There is very little knowledge I've gained from this exchange, really. I hear a lot of impassionate dissatisfaction with IBM's handling of Informix databases, but nothing that truly makes a difference. There have been a lot of petulant jabs and unproductive rhetoric. The pearls of wisdom have been scarce. Fred -----Original Message----- From: owner-informix-list@iiug.org [mailto:owner-informix-list@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Obnoxio The Clown Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 7:30 AM To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: RE: IDS to DB2 conversion malcolm weallans wrote: > So guys, I suggest you stop this ware of words through this mailing > list, take your discussions offline, and come back to us when you can > both agree to differ. OK, quick straw poll -- who here thinks this ware (sic) of words is irrelevant and uninteresting? Who here is uninterested in poking what information they can out of IBM on what might be happening and how IDS relates to DB2? -- "C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien ' dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule" - Coluche sending to informix-list

Federico (Fred) Hubbard wrote: > There is very little knowledge I've gained from this exchange, really. I > hear a lot of impassionate dissatisfaction with IBM's handling of Informix > databases, but nothing that truly makes a difference. > > There have been a lot of petulant jabs and unproductive rhetoric. > > The pearls of wisdom have been scarce. And here's me thinking the stuff Serge was saying about wrappers was interesting. Oh well....maybe you read more manuals than I do... :o) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-informix-list@iiug.org [mailto:owner-informix-list@iiug.org] > > malcolm weallans wrote: > >> So guys, I suggest you stop this ware of words through this mailing >> list, take your discussions offline, and come back to us when you can >> both agree to differ. > > OK, quick straw poll -- who here thinks this ware (sic) of words is > irrelevant and uninteresting? Who here is uninterested in poking what > information they can out of IBM on what might be happening and how IDS > relates to DB2? -- "C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien ''' dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule" - Coluche

Federico (Fred) Hubbard wrote: > There have been a lot of petulant jabs and unproductive rhetoric. http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame55.html Petulant jabs and unproductive rhetoric? Forgive me while I go sit in the corner and hang my head in shame at your well-deserved cutting observation. Bottom line, Fred, the overwhelming majority of hands-on Informix users are deeply unhappy about the way IBM has handled the products since the acquisition, and IBM has "buried its collective head in the sand" about this, shall we say, although another term did come to mind first. Sticking up a URL with a white paper that gets updated once a year while IBM raids IDS for technology to make DB2 a viable product while pushing up the TCO for IDS but otherwise ignoring it and wishing it would just go away, doesn't seem like a fair exchange to those of us who have a misguided passion for Informix. Or me, anyway. I also think that the IIUG should be more confrontational with IBM about Informix and not just act as another marketing channel to try and sell us Websphere or Tivoli. It isn't entirely clear to me how the IIUG is representing Informix users by apparently sucking up to IBM...? (If the IIUG isn't sucking up to IBM, then please feel free to correct me.) -- "C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien ''' dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule" - Coluche

"Obnoxio The Clown" <obnoxio@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:bvrouf$vr3mh$1@ID-64669.news.uni-berlin.de... > Federico (Fred) Hubbard wrote: > > I also think that the IIUG should be more confrontational with IBM about > Informix and not just act as another marketing channel to try and sell us > Websphere or Tivoli. It isn't entirely clear to me how the IIUG is > representing Informix users by apparently sucking up to IBM...? (If the > IIUG isn't sucking up to IBM, then please feel free to correct me.) Yes, this is unfair on the IIUG. Since I've been on it the IIUG Board has frequently and consistently raised the issue of absence of marketing and advertising of Informix, as it is clearly a major concern of members. But at the end of the day IBM has made it abundantly clear, by deed and more recently by word too, that it will not be advertising or promoting Informix for fear of displaying an "unclear database strategy" to the all-powerful American industy analysts. You may think this is wrong. You may think that IBM is promoting an inferior product hamstrung by its mainframe antecedents at the expense of superior technology. You may think that the analysts they so fear are a bunch of jumped-up MBAs with no real experience of actual, hands-on, practical IT. You may see with your own eyes the evidence that IBM has badly miscalculated and is losing its Informix customers hand over fist. I couldn't possibly comment. The fact is that it matters not one jot what you, I or the IIUG says or thinks. Given this, what is the IIUG to do? Pack up its toys and stomp off home? Or try to engage IBM in constructive dialogue in things it *can* influence, like making a DB2 migration a better experience, ironing out problems with migration to Passport Advantage, pointing out pricing discrepancies, helping IBM publicise the increasing integration of its products (like Websphere and Tivoli, since you mention them) with Informix. It disappoints and worries me that you, and probably others, view the IIUG in this way. The IIUG leadership, in my experience, contains very few appeasers and feels as passionately as you do. Its president Stuart Litel is a constant thorn in the side of IBM executives, and the IIUG does as good a job as it can in representing to IBM the disappointment and dissatisfaction of its members.

Neil Truby wrote: > "Obnoxio The Clown" <obnoxio@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:bvrouf$vr3mh$1@ID-64669.news.uni-berlin.de... >> Federico (Fred) Hubbard wrote: >> >> I also think that the IIUG should be more confrontational with IBM about >> Informix and not just act as another marketing channel to try and sell us >> Websphere or Tivoli. It isn't entirely clear to me how the IIUG is >> representing Informix users by apparently sucking up to IBM...? (If the >> IIUG isn't sucking up to IBM, then please feel free to correct me.) > > Yes, this is unfair on the IIUG. Since I've been on it the IIUG Board has > frequently and consistently raised the issue of absence of marketing and > advertising of Informix, as it is clearly a major concern of members. But > at the end of the day IBM has made it abundantly clear, by deed and more > recently by word too, that it will not be advertising or promoting > Informix for fear of displaying an "unclear database strategy" to the > all-powerful American industy analysts. Bollocks to that. > You may think this is wrong. You may think that IBM is promoting an > inferior product hamstrung by its mainframe antecedents at the expense of > superior technology. You may think that the analysts they so fear are a > bunch of jumped-up MBAs with no real experience of actual, hands-on, > practical IT. You may see with your own eyes the evidence that IBM has > badly miscalculated and is losing its Informix customers hand over fist. > I couldn't possibly comment. Oh no, I really think the analysts are marvellous, and I slavishly follow every word they say... :o) > The fact is that it matters not one jot what you, I or the IIUG says or > thinks. Given this, what is the IIUG to do? Pack up its toys and stomp > off > home? Or try to engage IBM in constructive dialogue in things it *can* > influence, like making a DB2 migration a better experience, ironing out > problems with migration to Passport Advantage, pointing out pricing > discrepancies, helping IBM publicise the increasing integration of its > products (like Websphere and Tivoli, since you mention them) with > Informix. Well, it's clearly been very successful with the migration to Pisspoor Disadvantage aspect, at least. :o) > It disappoints and worries me that you, and probably others, view the IIUG > in this way. The IIUG leadership, in my experience, contains very few > appeasers and feels as passionately as you do. Its president Stuart Litel > is a constant thorn in the side of IBM executives, and the IIUG does as > good a job as it can in representing to IBM the disappointment and > dissatisfaction of its members. That is glorious news, honestly.I just wish the irritation Stuart caused them was more visible to the rank and file. :o) GO STUART!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- "C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien ''' dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule" - Coluche

Good post :-) -- Serge Rielau DB2 SQL Compiler Development IBM Toronto Lab