Re: Is IBM actually doing something with IDS?

Andrew Ford wrote: > So you would like a free full featured version of IDS with no time bomb to > install in your production environments? > Yes. > How does IBM get their cut? Sheer volume would speak for itself. > Would you purchase support Yes for production. > or bring in some of > their consultants? > No. > Andrew > I should not have to call a salesman to get my hands on the software. If it indeed _did_ make it into production, it's quite obvious that we would purchase a support contract for it. IDS is not the last DB on earth, and as DA Morgan pointed out, Oracle allows a full download of their product. Microsoft has their dev subscription without crippling, it's a no-brainer. The only reason you wouldn't want to offer the software uncrippled is to avoid seeding the market. Right now I can actually see that that would make good sense for big shops, but little sense if you really wanted to widen the developer base. 'Developer' in my terminology is everyone and anyone who would want to try it out, and undertake a feasibility study to see if they would become a part of the IDS community, either as a customer, or as a developer. -t-

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/downloads/im/ids/index.html Do you think 3 months is long enough to "evaluate" the product?

scottishpoet wrote: > http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/downloads/im/ids/index.html > > Do you think 3 months is long enough to "evaluate" the product? > > No. I think it might be barely enough time. I also might want to develop applications for the database, in which case I'd want a developer license for the database, at no charge, unlimited time to use it. SQL-Server has this kind of licensing already in place, I'm sure Oracle has it too, but haven't looked lately. I want to be able to use it, develop applications, and learn how the engine works to be an expert resource for the product. This is not hard to understand, and if people at IBM don't get it, then they are obviously never going to license it that way, despite the success other vendors have had doing it this way. -t-

On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 10:10 -0700, Tool wrote: > [...] I'd want a developer license for the database, > at no charge, unlimited time to use it. [...] Isn't that exactly what the IIUG-offered version is? -- Carsten Haese http://informixdb.sourceforge.net

No. The IIUG version is an altered product. First of all IBM and/or Informix had to exert little effort to get the crippling into effect, the IIUG was the one ( Stuart specifically ) who pushed for crippling the engine so that those nefarious freeloaders out there wouldn't use the engine in a production environment. This is a red herring, but there's no convincing the IIUG they know better. It's easy enough to see what other vendors have done, so the model is already out there with successful--hugely successful--companies allowing their developer pool to grow, which as I've stated over the past 15-20 years, is the key to growing Informix in the marketplace. Applications drive databases, databases don't drive applications. Secondly, the other postings regarding this make the point, so I won't rehash what they said. What the crippling is really about, is an attempt to regulate and control the use of the software, and the manufacturer has of course every right to do that. But there are better ways to do that, without impairing the full functionality. I know of several softwares out there that use encrypted license keys that prevent the software from re-installation from one machine to the next, and have a serious business relationship with the people that download the software, collecting enough information up front to monitor and track the usage. There is already enough of this as accepted and best practice so I don't need to go into the details of how it's done. Instead, what would work for everyone is a better license registration process, that clearly states the rights and penalties for improper use, and what the expectations are from the vendor if the software is used in a production environment. It also requires the vendor to have a real developer program, not mindless web pages that are run by robots. There needs to be a connection with your developer community, one that if I were working at IBM I would really develop. But we all know that's probably never going to happen. :-) There are several vendors out there that offer license-key products for software, and registration business models. But I would strongly argue that Informix's original strength was in having no license management software, and a strong developer community that was largely small shops. It was in the smaller sites where strong development came from, which eventually bubbled up into larger corporate customers. This is exactly what Microsoft has continued to rely on, and why it requires no further explanation as to its ability to be successful and grow the Informix market. Developers are the key to the future of the product, and unless IBM et al get this point they are spinning their wheels. Carsten Haese wrote: > On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 10:10 -0700, Tool wrote: >> [...] I'd want a developer license for the database, >> at no charge, unlimited time to use it. [...] > > Isn't that exactly what the IIUG-offered version is? >

I just downloaded IDS 10 from the IIUG site. I understand that the engine has a 5 session limit and that is quite reasonable for an evaluation, but I cannot connect to this instance remotely. I'm pretty certain that I have configured the engine, etc for remote connectivity (I was a certified Informix DBA in a previous life), but I jget a 908 when trying to connect. Is this engine crippled in this way also? Thanks Fred -----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Tool Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 4:55 PM To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: Is IBM actually doing something with IDS? No. The IIUG version is an altered product. First of all IBM and/or Informix had to exert little effort to get the crippling into effect, the IIUG was the one ( Stuart specifically ) who pushed for crippling the engine so that those nefarious freeloaders out there wouldn't use the engine in a production environment. This is a red herring, but there's no convincing the IIUG they know better. It's easy enough to see what other vendors have done, so the model is already out there with successful--hugely successful--companies allowing their developer pool to grow, which as I've stated over the past 15-20 years, is the key to growing Informix in the marketplace. Applications drive databases, databases don't drive applications. Secondly, the other postings regarding this make the point, so I won't rehash what they said. What the crippling is really about, is an attempt to regulate and control the use of the software, and the manufacturer has of course every right to do that. But there are better ways to do that, without impairing the full functionality. I know of several softwares out there that use encrypted license keys that prevent the software from re-installation from one machine to the next, and have a serious business relationship with the people that download the software, collecting enough information up front to monitor and track the usage. There is already enough of this as accepted and best practice so I don't need to go into the details of how it's done. Instead, what would work for everyone is a better license registration process, that clearly states the rights and penalties for improper use, and what the expectations are from the vendor if the software is used in a production environment. It also requires the vendor to have a real developer program, not mindless web pages that are run by robots. There needs to be a connection with your developer community, one that if I were working at IBM I would really develop. But we all know that's probably never going to happen. :-) There are several vendors out there that offer license-key products for software, and registration business models. But I would strongly argue that Informix's original strength was in having no license management software, and a strong developer community that was largely small shops. It was in the smaller sites where strong development came from, which eventually bubbled up into larger corporate customers. This is exactly what Microsoft has continued to rely on, and why it requires no further explanation as to its ability to be successful and grow the Informix market. Developers are the key to the future of the product, and unless IBM et al get this point they are spinning their wheels. Carsten Haese wrote: > On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 10:10 -0700, Tool wrote: >> [...] I'd want a developer license for the database, >> at no charge, unlimited time to use it. [...] > > Isn't that exactly what the IIUG-offered version is? > _______________________________________________ Informix-list mailing list Informix-list@iiug.org http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list