Why IBM Is a pain to work with...

Man, Try getting a price out of IBM is a royal pain. For those who work for IBM, especially in IM, please take good notes. First, I called 1-800-IBM-4-YOU. Why? Cause its the main number that's easy to memorize. So I get the call routed to IBM's Indian office. Ask the guy to talk with someone in the dot com office in Toronto to get a price quote for IDS. (Then I get the basic "Do you want a price quote on hardware? Software? ..." Did you want I series X series ...") He then passes me off to another person in India. I ask them where they are located. Didn't get a straight answer. NOTE TO IBM. HERE'S A FREE CLUE: A savvy consumer is going to know where the call is getting routed. There is no reason to lie. Then he insists that the other person needs to know my name. So I gave him my name. John Doe (312) 555-1212 working for John Doe Inc. [NOTE: YOU TOO CAN BE AN EMPLOYEE OF JOHN DOE INC.] Just use your area code and then 555-1212. The third person I talked with was in Atlanta. She was ok, she didn't know the answer, but passed me on to a guy in the KC office (Lenexa). NOTE TO IBM: THE PHONE LINES SUCKED ASS. (Thats the technical term). I had to call back in to get a better line directly to the person. Now the person on the call was on top of things. IBM uses UNITS. List price per unit is xxx for each product. INTEL processor is 50 units per core. So you take price per unit X 50 X # cores and you have the list price of IDS. EE is pretty expensive. More than I thought it would be. Anyways the point is that IBM needs to get a clue and to get their Indian call center to actually do a better job of getting you to a person who can best answer your call. Also if they ever keep trying to get my information for marketing purposes, I'll wager John Doe working for John Doe Inc, is going to be bigger than IBM is.... ;-) I even have an employee Jane Doe. I offer great benefits including AFLAC insurance for my employees. ;-) Cheers! -G > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 06:23:54 -0700 > From: bigdaddyjerry@yahoo.com > Subject: Re: So, do you want to buy db2? > To: ChrisSalch@letu.edu; informix-list@iiug.org > > "So, do you want to buy db2?" > > I would go back to using punched cards before I bought > DB2. > > > --- Chris Salch <ChrisSalch@letu.edu> wrote: > > > What is the best way to get a quote for an Informix > > license? > > > > I've called IBM and they've now handed me off to a > > second subject matter > > expert. All I'm looking for a is a quote on what it > > would cost to get > > an Informix 10/11 Enterprise instance on a Linux box > > ( Vmware or 2 cpu > > dual core ). > > > > Thoughts anyone? > > > > -- > > -------------------------------------------- > > Chris Salch > > Programmer/Analyst > > LeTourneau University > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Informix-list mailing list > > Informix-list@iiug.org > > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

"Ian Michael Gumby" <im_gumby@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:mailman.667.1205346037.20610.informix-list@iiug.org... Man, >> Try getting a price out of IBM is a royal pain. >> For those who work for IBM, especially in IM, please take good notes. >> First, I called 1-800-IBM-4-YOU. Why? Cause its the main number that's >> easy to memorize. >> So I get the call routed to IBM's Indian office. Ask the guy to talk with >> someone in the dot com office in Toronto to get a price quote for IDS. 1. You can get the *list* price online. For example click on "View Pricing and Buy" at http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/informix/ids/ , select your country, and you'll get all the IBM passport Advantage (PPA) Baseline (BL) prices. If you're a large enough customer to qualify for a higher PPA Band of Pricing you would need help, I concede, but if you were that customer you'd almost certainly already have an IBM account manager and/or Business Partner that you'd know pretty well. 2. Don't call IBM directly. Call a Business Partner which specialises in the product you're interested in. You'll get much better, specialised service from someone who knows your product and isn't required to be a generalist about 1,000 others. You'll *never* pay more and will probably pay less. You'll almost certainly speak not have to speak to an off-shored customer call centre (with all the implications for quality of service and true attitude towards customers which their use implies on the part of the vendor). In the US, where I expect you are, Kazer, OnePoint, Advanced Data Tools and I think these days Oninit and Maywood are all active, and would I'm sure all give you the answer within a minute of receiving your call.

The Execs just don't get it, but they don't have to deal with the IBM machine. You get tired of being told that there is process within IBM to allow you to do get information but that process simply just doesn't work most of the time. Being told its on the website is just a joke, I went to get a local support number the other day, the website insists I'm in the US, and I am, and refused to let have a local country number. In the end I called IBM, and after 20 mins I had the number - it's beyond a joke. I hate calling IBM to find information, I'd rather push burning needles in my eyes, it is less painful and more productive. 'The management' should try and use the processes they claim to work, use them from the outside world and not from within IBM Cheers Paul Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > Man, > > Try getting a price out of IBM is a royal pain. > > For those who work for IBM, especially in IM, please take good notes. > > First, I called 1-800-IBM-4-YOU. Why? Cause its the main number that's > easy to memorize. > So I get the call routed to IBM's Indian office. Ask the guy to talk > with someone in the dot com office in Toronto to get a price quote for IDS. > (Then I get the basic "Do you want a price quote on hardware? Software? > ..." Did you want I series X series ...") > He then passes me off to another person in India. I ask them where they > are located. Didn't get a straight answer. > NOTE TO IBM. HERE'S A FREE CLUE: > A savvy consumer is going to know where the call is getting routed. > There is no reason to lie. > > Then he insists that the other person needs to know my name. > So I gave him my name. John Doe (312) 555-1212 working for John Doe Inc. > [NOTE: YOU TOO CAN BE AN EMPLOYEE OF JOHN DOE INC.] > Just use your area code and then 555-1212. > > The third person I talked with was in Atlanta. She was ok, she didn't > know the answer, but passed me on to a guy in the KC office (Lenexa). > > NOTE TO IBM: THE PHONE LINES SUCKED ASS. (Thats the technical term). I > had to call back in to get a better line directly to the person. > > Now the person on the call was on top of things. > > IBM uses UNITS. List price per unit is xxx for each product. > INTEL processor is 50 units per core. > > So you take price per unit X 50 X # cores and you have the list price of > IDS. > > EE is pretty expensive. More than I thought it would be. > > Anyways the point is that IBM needs to get a clue and to get their > Indian call center to actually do a better job of getting you to a > person who can best answer your call. Also if they ever keep trying to > get my information for marketing purposes, I'll wager John Doe working > for John Doe Inc, is going to be bigger than IBM is.... ;-) > I even have an employee Jane Doe. I offer great benefits including AFLAC > insurance for my employees. ;-) > > Cheers! > > -G > > > > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 06:23:54 -0700 > > From: bigdaddyjerry@yahoo.com > > Subject: Re: So, do you want to buy db2? > > To: ChrisSalch@letu.edu; informix-list@iiug.org > > > > "So, do you want to buy db2?" > > > > I would go back to using punched cards before I bought > > DB2. > > > > > > --- Chris Salch <ChrisSalch@letu.edu> wrote: > > > > > What is the best way to get a quote for an Informix > > > license? > > > > > > I've called IBM and they've now handed me off to a > > > second subject matter > > > expert. All I'm looking for a is a quote on what it > > > would cost to get > > > an Informix 10/11 Enterprise instance on a Linux box > > > ( Vmware or 2 cpu > > > dual core ). > > > > > > Thoughts anyone? > > > > > > -- > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > Chris Salch > > > Programmer/Analyst > > > LeTourneau University > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Informix-list mailing list > > > Informix-list@iiug.org > > > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list

The Execs just don't get it, but they don't have to deal with the IBM machine. You get tired of being told that there is process within IBM to allow you to do get information but that process simply just doesn't work most of the time. Being told its on the website is just a joke, I went to get a local support number the other day, the website insists I'm in the US, and I am, and refused to let have a local country number. In the end I called IBM, and after 20 mins I had the number - it's beyond a joke. I hate calling IBM to find information, I'd rather push burning needles in my eyes, it is less painful and more productive. 'The management' should try and use the processes they claim to work, use them from the outside world and not from within IBM Cheers Paul Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > Man, > > Try getting a price out of IBM is a royal pain. > > For those who work for IBM, especially in IM, please take good notes. > > First, I called 1-800-IBM-4-YOU. Why? Cause its the main number that's > easy to memorize. > So I get the call routed to IBM's Indian office. Ask the guy to talk > with someone in the dot com office in Toronto to get a price quote for IDS. > (Then I get the basic "Do you want a price quote on hardware? Software? > ..." Did you want I series X series ...") > He then passes me off to another person in India. I ask them where they > are located. Didn't get a straight answer. > NOTE TO IBM. HERE'S A FREE CLUE: > A savvy consumer is going to know where the call is getting routed. > There is no reason to lie. > > Then he insists that the other person needs to know my name. > So I gave him my name. John Doe (312) 555-1212 working for John Doe Inc. > [NOTE: YOU TOO CAN BE AN EMPLOYEE OF JOHN DOE INC.] > Just use your area code and then 555-1212. > > The third person I talked with was in Atlanta. She was ok, she didn't > know the answer, but passed me on to a guy in the KC office (Lenexa). > > NOTE TO IBM: THE PHONE LINES SUCKED ASS. (Thats the technical term). I > had to call back in to get a better line directly to the person. > > Now the person on the call was on top of things. > > IBM uses UNITS. List price per unit is xxx for each product. > INTEL processor is 50 units per core. > > So you take price per unit X 50 X # cores and you have the list price of > IDS. > > EE is pretty expensive. More than I thought it would be. > > Anyways the point is that IBM needs to get a clue and to get their > Indian call center to actually do a better job of getting you to a > person who can best answer your call. Also if they ever keep trying to > get my information for marketing purposes, I'll wager John Doe working > for John Doe Inc, is going to be bigger than IBM is.... ;-) > I even have an employee Jane Doe. I offer great benefits including AFLAC > insurance for my employees. ;-) > > Cheers! > > -G > > > > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 06:23:54 -0700 > > From: bigdaddyjerry@yahoo.com > > Subject: Re: So, do you want to buy db2? > > To: ChrisSalch@letu.edu; informix-list@iiug.org > > > > "So, do you want to buy db2?" > > > > I would go back to using punched cards before I bought > > DB2. > > > > > > --- Chris Salch <ChrisSalch@letu.edu> wrote: > > > > > What is the best way to get a quote for an Informix > > > license? > > > > > > I've called IBM and they've now handed me off to a > > > second subject matter > > > expert. All I'm looking for a is a quote on what it > > > would cost to get > > > an Informix 10/11 Enterprise instance on a Linux box > > > ( Vmware or 2 cpu > > > dual core ). > > > > > > Thoughts anyone? > > > > > > -- > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > Chris Salch > > > Programmer/Analyst > > > LeTourneau University > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Informix-list mailing list > > > Informix-list@iiug.org > > > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list =========================================================================================== Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.oninit.com/home/disclaimer.php ===========================================================================================

> From: neil.truby@ardenta.com I didn't know about getting a price directly online. In this case I was looking at the "list price". > 2. Don't call IBM directly. Call a Business Partner which specialises in > the product you're interested in. Uhm, yeah. Not that I'm in agreement with that statement, but doesn't it bother you that IBM forces you to talk to a business partner? Am I the only one who sees a major problem with this? (No offense to the business partner, but *how* does IBM grow its market?) Considering that start ups who are evaluating technology may not know to go to a BP over IBM. But that's a whole nother story. My point is that IBM isn't doing their job in customer service, unless you are an *aligned* or *assigned* account. Discounts? There's a limit to what a BP can do. And no I'm not going to talk numbers because I'll get killed by the BPs... ;-) -G _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

"Ian Michael Gumby" <im_gumby@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:mailman.671.1205355627.20610.informix-list@iiug.org... > From: neil.truby@ardenta.com I didn't know about getting a price directly online. In this case I was looking at the "list price". > 2. Don't call IBM directly. Call a Business Partner which specialises in > the product you're interested in. >> Uhm, yeah. Not that I'm in agreement with that statement, but doesn't it >> bother you that IBM forces you to talk to a business partner? >> Am I the only one who sees a major problem with this? (No offense to the >> business partner, but *how* does IBM grow its market?) It depends upon your expectations. A huge company like IBM,with literally thousands of products, can't have everybody expert on all of them. It could perhaps streamline the process of getting you through to the person you need more quickly, but if it's made the decision to offshore it *has* made the decision that addressing general queries in the best possible fashion is not a priority. As I mentioned in an earlier post big business is notoriously bad at understanding small business. So IBM's, and many other vendors', models are about having top-quality, skilled local reps to serve the volume accounts, and remote scripted generalists for the small stuff, and supplement the consequent lack of coverage in the small business area by incentive programmes for business partners to pick up the slack. IBM's is better than most. So as a BP I can get good margins for selling licences to "SMB" (I think it's called "General" now), but I have big disincentives to sell to IBM's big customers (at the top level the channel margin is generally barely enough to cover the cost of credit of fulfillment). So, call a Business Partner. Preferably mine ;-)

Neil Truby wrote: > "Ian Michael Gumby" <im_gumby@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:mailman.671.1205355627.20610.informix-list@iiug.org... > > >> From: neil.truby@ardenta.com > I didn't know about getting a price directly online. > In this case I was looking at the "list price". > >> 2. Don't call IBM directly. Call a Business Partner which specialises in >> the product you're interested in. > >>> Uhm, yeah. Not that I'm in agreement with that statement, but doesn't it >>> bother you that IBM forces you to talk to a business partner? >>> Am I the only one who sees a major problem with this? (No offense to the >>> business partner, but *how* does IBM grow its market?) > > It depends upon your expectations. A huge company like IBM,with literally > thousands of products, can't have everybody expert on all of them. It could > perhaps streamline the process of getting you through to the person you need > more quickly, but if it's made the decision to offshore it *has* made the > decision that addressing general queries in the best possible fashion is not > a priority. > > As I mentioned in an earlier post big business is notoriously bad at > understanding small business. So IBM's, and many other vendors', models are > about having top-quality, skilled local reps to serve the volume accounts, > and remote scripted generalists for the small stuff, and supplement the > consequent lack of coverage in the small business area by incentive > programmes for business partners to pick up the slack. IBM's is better than > most. So as a BP I can get good margins for selling licences to "SMB" (I > think it's called "General" now), but I have big disincentives to sell to > IBM's big customers (at the top level the channel margin is generally barely > enough to cover the cost of credit of fulfillment). > > So, call a Business Partner. Preferably mine ;-) > > > I think you've hit the nail right on the head. There either has to be a tacit acceptance that IBM can't really sell other than through partners--which is not a bad thing, or you're expectations are that somehow IBM will come through and do the selling outright, through advertising and marketing. If partners are the preferred choice, then so be it. I'm expecting IBM to dole out advertising money to partners and let us get it done. This might in all reality be the right way, even if it reinforces bad behavior ( abject laziness ) on IBM's part, to not even put any effort in to selling and marketing Informix. Maybe in the final analysis this is truly survival of the fittest product, it either makes it in the partner channel, or it dies from lack of even internal interest at IBM.