Re: database market share 2003
This is not a technical support thread but a flame war between two posters arguing over 2003 database market share. Points of contention include whether sites genuinely migrate applications away from Oracle to DB2/SQL Server (versus merely adding support for an extra platform), whether Oracle's share is falling on new installations, relative licensing costs and TCO, and a side dispute about whether IBM-compatible mainframes still exist (Amdahl, now owned by Fujitsu). No technical problem is posed and no resolution is reached; both parties simply demand retractions.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
"Noons" <wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au.nospam> wrote in message news:40c99af2$0$3037$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... > Mark A allegedly said,on my timestamp of 11/06/2004 9:37 PM: > > You obviously don't pay the bills. > > > > > > The IBM bills? No I don't. > You don't pay the Oracle bills either. Your company pays them. Maybe you just authorize them to be paid. But the cost of Oracle is why people are trying to port their applications to something else. Good old Reaganomics.
Mark A allegedly said,on my timestamp of 11/06/2004 9:48 PM: > You don't pay the Oracle bills either. Your company pays them. Maybe you Akshally, my company pays bills to IBM... Wrong again. But that is a constant already. > just authorize them to be paid. But the cost of Oracle is why people are > trying to port their applications to something else. Good old Reaganomics. Funnily enough, I see NO ONE "porting" their apps to "something else". But that must be an internal IBM "vision"... -- Cheers Nuno Souto wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au.nospam
> Funnily enough, I see NO ONE "porting" their apps to "something else". > But that must be an internal IBM "vision"... > I don't have "IBM vision," nor do I particularly care. But I do see lots of Oracle to DB2 questions on this and other DB2 forums (like www.dbforms.com). I am sure their are similar questions about converting Oracle to SQL Server on other forums.
Mark A allegedly said,on my timestamp of 11/06/2004 10:02 PM: > I don't have "IBM vision," nor do I particularly care. But I do see lots of > Oracle to DB2 questions on this and other DB2 forums (like www.dbforms.com). > I am sure their are similar questions about converting Oracle to SQL Server > on other forums. Of course. And a lot about converting SQL Server and DB2 to Oracle. Goes for all. What does that prove? About and exactly squat... -- Cheers Nuno Souto wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au.nospam
>>> Funnily enough, I see NO ONE "porting" their apps to "something else". >>> But that must be an internal IBM "vision"... > > I don't have "IBM vision," nor do I particularly care. But I do see lots of > > Oracle to DB2 questions on this and other DB2 forums (like www.dbforms.com). > > I am sure their are similar questions about converting Oracle to SQL Server > > on other forums. > > Of course. And a lot about converting SQL Server and DB2 to Oracle. > Goes for all. What does that prove? About and exactly squat... > -- > Cheers > Nuno Souto I never said it proved anything. You implied that Oracle to DB2 never happened (because YOU did not see it happen, see your quote above for details), which is false. Sounds like you need another retraction. I really don't know the net effect of all these conversions, but from what I have seen, Oracle market share is dropping, especially on new installations (rather than upgrades). I don't think that it means that Oracle is a bad product, but DB2 and SQL Server have caught up from a product perspective, and they are much cheaper, both in terms of initial cost, and cost of ownership.
Mark A allegedly said,on my timestamp of 11/06/2004 10:25 PM: >>>>Funnily enough, I see NO ONE "porting" their apps to "something else". >>>>But that must be an internal IBM "vision"... > I never said it proved anything. You implied that Oracle to DB2 never > happened (because YOU did not see it happen, see your quote above for > details), which is false. Sounds like you need another retraction. You're the one that needs your head examined! Which apps have been "ported" AWAY from Oracle? Don't confuse making them available on a new product to moving them away from Oracle. The two are only the same in your fertile imagination... > I really don't know the net effect of all these conversions, WHAT "all these conversions"???? Name ONE! Once again, on fumes. Porting to an ADDITIONAL platform is NOT moving away from the previous one. Got it? > have seen, Oracle market share is dropping, especially on new installations > (rather than upgrades). All I see is once the initial impact of "adding" AS400 and mainframe licenses to Unix licenses wore off, DB2 has basically stagnated. As widely expected. After all, one can only pull that dirty trick once. Although knowing IBM, it will probably be a short jump to add in CICS licenses as well. And Assembler. And whatever else they might scrounge around... While SQL Server is going all sails ahead. With MySQL picking up the stray bits. That is the reality. Better deal with it... As for new installations, that is wide open to many "interpretations", so we better not go there. > I don't think that it means that Oracle is a bad product, but DB2 and SQL > Server have caught up from a product perspective, and they are much cheaper, > both in terms of initial cost, and cost of ownership. Correction: SQL Server IS much cheaper. DB2 never was, never will be. And TCO is about as bogus a definition as any. -- Cheers Nuno Souto wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au.nospam
"Noons" <wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au.nospam> wrote in message news:40c9a8f7$0$8989$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... > > WHAT "all these conversions"???? Name ONE! > Once again, on fumes. Porting to an ADDITIONAL platform > is NOT moving away from the previous one. Got it? > I don't work for IBM, so I don't feel compelled to keep track of Oracle to DB2 conversions. All I know is that I see a lot of questions about conversions on this forum and on www.dbforums.com
OK, after little research, I found out the Amdahl has been purchased by Fujitsu and they still make IBM plug compatible mainframes. IBM is still required by the government to provide Fujitsu/Amdahl with microcode and access to OS/390 source code to allow them to clone IBM mainframes. Here is a blurb from the Fujitsu/Amdahl website: Fortune 500 customers can continue to utilize the System/390 compatible server line of products for their mission-critical applications for years to come. The Millennium and OmniFlex servers are high performing, proven technology, and very reliable. Our servers will continue to provide our customers the best value and lowest total cost of ownership for System/390 computing. http://www.Amdahl.com/fih/products/index.html
Mark A allegedly said,on my timestamp of 11/06/2004 10:48 PM: > I don't work for IBM, so I don't feel compelled to keep track of Oracle to > DB2 conversions. All I know is that I see a lot of questions about > conversions on this forum and on www.dbforums.com And I see a LOT of questions on converting from DB2 and SQL Server to Oracle. In MANY forums. Do I assume there is a groundswell move away from those two to Oracle? Narh, I don't have your fertile "imagination". -- Cheers Nuno Souto wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au.nospam
Mark A allegedly said,on my timestamp of 11/06/2004 10:53 PM: > OK, after little research, I found out the Amdahl has been purchased by so, that crap about Gene was only what? 20 years old info? > come. The Millennium and OmniFlex servers are high performing, proven > technology, and very reliable. Our servers will continue to provide our > customers the best value and lowest total cost of ownership for System/390 > computing. an yet remarkably, they sold how many new accounts? Ah yes: none... -- Cheers Nuno Souto wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au.nospam
> > I don't work for IBM, so I don't feel compelled to keep track of Oracle to > > DB2 conversions. All I know is that I see a lot of questions about > > conversions on this forum and on www.dbforums.com > > And I see a LOT of questions on converting from DB2 and SQL Server > to Oracle. In MANY forums. Do I assume there is a groundswell > move away from those two to Oracle? Narh, I don't have > your fertile "imagination". > > -- > Cheers > Nuno Souto I never claimed that there were no DB2 to Oracle conversions. However YOU DID CLAIM that were no Oracle to DB2 conversions because you did not see any of them. As I mentioned, Oracle market share is declining, especially on new installation (not upgrades), so I will let that speak for itself with regard to conversions.
> > The Millennium and OmniFlex servers are high performing, proven > > technology, and very reliable. Our servers will continue to provide our > > customers the best value and lowest total cost of ownership for System/390 > > computing. > > an yet remarkably, they sold how many new accounts? Ah yes: none... > > -- > Cheers > Nuno Souto When IBM mainframes (or plug compatibles) already have 90% penetration in the Fortune 500 (in terms of accounts), how many new accounts are you expecting? But that is not the point. I am still awaiting a retraction on your claim that there are no plug compatible IBM mainframes available for customers today. I realize that I may have to wait in line for a retraction (due to the many inaccuracies in your posts), but I am patient.
Mark A allegedly said,on my timestamp of 11/06/2004 11:01 PM: > I never claimed that there were no DB2 to Oracle conversions. However YOU > DID CLAIM that were no Oracle to DB2 conversions because you did not see any > of them. No. Stay within the Queen's language, please. I said there are very few (if any) commercial app conversions AWAY from Oracle. What there is is PORTING AS WELL to SQL Server and DB2. Perfectly kosher in anyone's book and only you could come up with the derivation that it is a "conversion from Oracle". > As I mentioned, Oracle market share is declining, especially on new > installation (not upgrades), so I will let that speak for itself with regard > to conversions. Me too. New installations are "conversions" now, eh? Makes a lot of sense. Just like the Amdahl recycled old history, the denial of the obvious in IBM's own site, etcetc. I let that speak for itself as well.... -- Cheers Nuno Souto wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au.nospam