Re: Informix business grew by double digits in 2006 (Q1+Q2)

Tambi Dude wrote: > Captain Pedantic wrote: >> <eric@herber-consulting.de> wrote in message >> news:1155199516.491500.282260@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >>> "Performance, Reliability, Simplicity..." this really describes >>> IDS best. >>> I also could not imagine that IBM didn't try to push DB2 into this >>> account. >>> Funny, that DB2 with all the benchmarks it wins, with all the >>> autonomic features it has, with all the advertising done for it, >>> with the large market share it has ... >> On mainframe and AS/400 maybe. On Linux and UNIX its penetration is, >> in my considerable experience, negligible. > > Just how much DB2 sells in LUW platform. I am 100% convinced that it is > even less than Informix. Why doesn't IBM release figures? > > When I was an IBM customer I had to deal with not only IBM sales people but also the local IBM Partners. One partner for hardware, another for software. I asked them if they would co-op a press release of us buying their hardware and software and give us a break on price. It's great for free advertising of our company, the partner gets a press release, and so does IBM, everybody gets a win, so it's a win-win for all. They all had blank looks on their faces. Curious that the hardware partners were actually in battle for the sale vs the software people, because the hardware partner was proud of virtualization and needing less to do the job, and the software vendor needed more hardware because of the CPU metric--more CPUs, more software licenses. IBM does not seem competent to sell in a more simplistic manner that the customer would expect, instead they fragment their products and actually end up pitting these different products against each other. Very confusing. I've heard that IBM actually does not have a competency to sell to new customers, they are more competent selling to their existing base. This probably explains a lot why they can't articulate new wins, or why new wins don't seem to be important. They don't seem to understand new customers at all, or why other prospective customers might want to know about new customers to help influence their buying decisions. To your question, I also heard from IBM that IBM sells a lot of DB2 on windows, but not as much on Linux.

> I've heard that IBM actually does not have a competency to sell to new customers, > they are more competent selling to their existing base. I've recommended IBM hardware and software many times. The ones that went with IBM have almost to-the-man come back about with very positive reviews of the professionalism of the support and the quality of the product. That's what "I've heard" (since bandying about anecdotes seems to be the thing to do here). If your particular business partner was clueless or your salesman a dick... big deal! It doesn't say anything on the whole about an organization the size of IBM or its myriad business partners. http://news.com.com/Dell+trails+IBM,+HP+in+server +satisfaction/2100-1010_3-5928629.html "A survey of U.S. server buyers found that Dell dropped from first place to third place in terms of satisfaction in the third quarter. IBM, stuck at No. 3 for most of the last eight years, is now No. 1. And Hewlett-Packard remained in its No. 2 spot, according to the survey conducted by Technology Business Research." Damn, I'm being childish again! But I have managed to refrain from pointing out that some customers (as any consultant knows) are just way too difficult and obnoxious to expect anyone to be able to work with them successfully. > They don't seem to understand new customers at all, or why other prospective > customers might want to know about new customers to help influence their buying > decisions.

Double Echo said: > Curious that the hardware > partners > were actually in battle for the sale vs the software people, because the > hardware > partner was proud of virtualization and needing less to do the job, and > the software > vendor needed more hardware because of the CPU metric--more CPUs, more > software > licenses. IBM does not seem competent to sell in a more simplistic manner > that > the customer would expect, instead they fragment their products and > actually > end up pitting these different products against each other. Very > confusing. > I've heard that IBM actually does not have a competency to sell to new > customers, > they are more competent selling to their existing base. This probably > explains > a lot why they can't articulate new wins, or why new wins don't seem to be > important. > They don't seem to understand new customers at all, or why other > prospective > customers might want to know about new customers to help influence their > buying > decisions. Gee, I find all of that so hard to believe. -- Bye now, Obnoxio "... no bill is required as no value was provided." -- Christine Normile

"Double Echo" <doubleecho@your.com> wrote in message news:7JFCg.7905$_e6.6976@fe31.usenetserver.com... > When I was an IBM customer I had to deal with not only IBM sales people > but also the local IBM Partners. One partner for hardware, another for > software. I asked them if they would co-op a press release of us buying > their hardware and software and give us a break on price. It's great for > free advertising of our company, the partner gets a press release, and so > does IBM, everybody gets a win, so it's a win-win for all. > > They all had blank looks on their faces. As an IBM (software) Business Partner AND a p- and x-Series reseller I can assure you that IBM will discount to encourage the purchase of both in the same deal. In order to do so we as the BP have to find soneome in IBM who is given incentives on sales of both, usually a customer relationship manager, rather than (say) just the software sales person who will not be interetsed in the hardware used. Perhaps your Business Partner did not have the right contacts? Having said this, there is of course occasionally internal competition between hardware and software. It's the job of the BP, or direct sales person, to ensure that this is not acted out in front of the customer. In this respect I don't suppose IBM is different from too many other big companies, although IBM does seem to have a lot of sales people relative to others ...

Adam Tauno Williams wrote: >> I've heard that IBM actually does not have a competency to sell to new customers, >> they are more competent selling to their existing base. > > I've recommended IBM hardware and software many times. The ones that > went with IBM have almost to-the-man come back about with very positive > reviews of the professionalism of the support and the quality of the > product. That's what "I've heard" (since bandying about anecdotes seems > to be the thing to do here). If your particular business partner was > clueless or your salesman a dick... big deal! It doesn't say anything > on the whole about an organization the size of IBM or its myriad > business partners. > The IBM sales people were very professional, very nice people. The IBM Business Partners were very nice people. But I was their best inside salesman and they STILL couldn't get it done, after basically handing them the account on a silver platter, they still managed to miss how to make the deal work. It eventually was a software sale, ( thanks to me, not IBM, I should have gotten a commission for all the work I did for them ) and no hardware, but the whole combination of what we needed, and their ineptness in making it come together astounded me. Nice people, and we always were nice to them, we had no ax to grind with them. But they simply did not understand how to deal, they only knew how to present, and could not think outside the sales box. No package pricing, no quid pro quo, it was disappointing. I had management tell me what they wanted, and passed it on to IBM. Unfortunately they would not take the information and use it, just dumb for not taking the ball and running with it. I gave them spreadsheets, projections, bench marks and all kinds of things that were hot buttons with my management. They just didn't get beyond their own myopic "How are we at IBM going to help these people", like a bunch of happy robots, even when they had all the information they needed. No closers just people who are collecting a paycheck waiting for retirement. Very nice, just not sharp. We did have great tech support for the pre-sale effort, again, great, professional people. But the sales people just don't know what to do with a new customer, it's astounding. > http://news.com.com/Dell+trails+IBM,+HP+in+server > +satisfaction/2100-1010_3-5928629.html > "A survey of U.S. server buyers found that Dell dropped from first place > to third place in terms of satisfaction in the third quarter. IBM, stuck > at No. 3 for most of the last eight years, is now No. 1. And > Hewlett-Packard remained in its No. 2 spot, according to the survey > conducted by Technology Business Research." > > Damn, I'm being childish again! But I have managed to refrain from > pointing out that some customers (as any consultant knows) are just way > too difficult and obnoxious to expect anyone to be able to work with > them successfully. > Well you can always go to therapy for that. >> They don't seem to understand new customers at all, or why other prospective >> customers might want to know about new customers to help influence their buying >> decisions. > >