Re: flagship sunk

Jￜrgen Buck wrote: > Our brand new flagship sunk after a short, but heavy battle with it's > stepbrother. > The label "flagship for pure oltp" is gone on the IBM website: > http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/informix/ids10/ > > Seems to me the IDS ship came into the reach of the DB2 guns. The original text on the webpage was: *********************************************************************** "The latest release of Informixￜ Dynamic Server (IDS) - Version 10.0 - is IBM's flagship database for pure OLTP and industrial-strength, embedded computing." *********************************************************************** Now they changed it to: *********************************************************************** "Informixￜ Dynamic Server (IDS) Version 10.0 is IBM's newest data server for pure OLTP and industrial-strength, embedded computing. *********************************************************************** Several weeks ago I made the suggestion to product marketing to put the (original) message on the first page (http://www.ibm.com/informix) and to remove the word "pure" from the message as this only leads to doubts about the scope of the message. And another suggestion was to remove the "DB2" from the "DB2 Information Management" graphic. The result is that the message has been changed in a way that the important word "flagship" has been removed instead of "pure". The message is still hidden on a subpage and they were not able to find someone who is able to cut the "DB2" from the "DB2 Information Management" graphic. This is really frustrating and it is not funny anymore. I told several customers about the new positioning of IDS as IBM's flagship database for OLTP and now this message is no longer available on the official IBM website. What is IBM Informix product marketing doing ? Please don't tell me that they are all so dedicated to Informix and that they are doing a great job. I can't hear that anymore. They are doing a terrible job, point. I'm really pissed and will no longer accept this amateurish approach. Customers pay a lot of money for IDS and they have the right to see an appropriate, vital product marketing happening. I will write my complaints in a personal email directly to Ambuj Goyal (General Manager IBM Information Management Software) as he might be the only person who is able to fix these deficiencies.

Eric Herber wrote: > J'rgen Buck wrote: > > >>Our brand new flagship sunk after a short, but heavy battle with it's >>stepbrother. >>The label "flagship for pure oltp" is gone on the IBM website: >>http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/informix/ids10/ >> >>Seems to me the IDS ship came into the reach of the DB2 guns. > > The original text on the webpage was: > > *********************************************************************** > "The latest release of Informix' Dynamic Server (IDS) - Version 10.0 - > is IBM's flagship database for pure OLTP and industrial-strength, > embedded computing." > *********************************************************************** > > Now they changed it to: > > *********************************************************************** > "Informix' Dynamic Server (IDS) Version 10.0 is IBM's newest data server > for pure OLTP and industrial-strength, embedded computing. > *********************************************************************** > > Several weeks ago I made the suggestion to product marketing to put > the (original) message on the first page (http://www.ibm.com/informix) and > to remove the word "pure" from the message as this only leads to doubts > about the scope of the message. And another suggestion was to remove > the "DB2" from the "DB2 Information Management" graphic. > > The result is that the message has been changed in a way that the > important word "flagship" has been removed instead of "pure". The > message is still hidden on a subpage and they were not able to > find someone who is able to cut the "DB2" from the "DB2 Information > Management" graphic. > > This is really frustrating and it is not funny anymore. > I told several customers about the new positioning of IDS > as IBM's flagship database for OLTP and now this message is > no longer available on the official IBM website. > > What is IBM Informix product marketing doing ? > > Please don't tell me that they are all so dedicated to Informix > and that they are doing a great job. I can't hear that anymore. > They are doing a terrible job, point. > > I'm really pissed and will no longer accept this amateurish > approach. > > Customers pay a lot of money for IDS and they have the right > to see an appropriate, vital product marketing happening. > > I will write my complaints in a personal email directly to > Ambuj Goyal (General Manager IBM Information Management Software) > as he might be the only person who is able to fix these > deficiencies. > > Looks like somebody is paying attention: http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/informix/ids10/ Informix' Dynamic Server (IDS) Version 10.0 is IBM's newest data server for pure OLTP and industrial-strength, embedded computing.

Eric Herber wrote: > ... and they were not able to > find someone who is able to cut the "DB2" from the "DB2 Information > Management" graphic. ROFL. Not at you. At such lame nonsense. > This is really frustrating and it is not funny anymore. What is sad is that they don't just come out and say what everyone seems to instinctively know they are trying to communicate. They are killing Informix with a million papercuts while damning it with faint praise. -- Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

Sorry, guys! I've been a bit swamped building sales materials so our sales teams can more effectively sell Informix. I took out the word "flagship" because my management does not want me to use the term, PERIOD! Not for IDS or DB2 or U2 or anything else. You may also notice that we no longer have database servers. We have data servers and we have "a portfolio of data servers that provide the right capabilities across a broad spectrum of requirements - offering partners and clients greater flexibility to deliver an optimal solution vs. more narrow "one size fit all" portfolios from other vendors." We have, in effect, come out of the closet. No one should accuse us again of having a confusing two database server strategy. We have quite a few more than two servers and we are not confused. Each of our servers meets specific requirements and provides a better fit than a general purpose database management system. So, each product has a "sweet spot" and we will enhance our servers to strengthen their value in their respective sweet spots. For IDS, this means OLTP, RFID, Spatialtemporal capabilities, and embeddability. Management is currently meeting with analysts and I will try to get a read on how those briefings are going as pass along the information as it becomes available. I just approved publication of recent IDS benchmark results and passed on to Cindy Fung the details for our next IDS benchmark. She will be taking over as product manager and will drive our benchmarks and work on vNext. I, in the meantime, will be working with our IBM Business Partners and Business Partner teams to grow this business. I will still be working with our direct customers and direct teams as needed. And I still have a single goal. WORLD DOMINATION! Your assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated! Christine Christine Normile IDS Channel Marketing Manager IBM Software Group Information Management

elanleblanc@yahoo.com wrote: > You may also > notice that we no longer have database servers. We have data servers > and we have "a portfolio of data servers that provide the right > capabilities across a broad spectrum of requirements - offering > partners and clients greater flexibility to deliver an optimal solution > vs. more narrow "one size fit all" portfolios from other vendors." > > We have, in effect, come out of the closet. No one should accuse us > again of having a confusing two database server strategy. We have > quite a few more than two servers and we are not confused. This is IBM's data server strategy ? http://www-306.ibm.com/software/sw-bycategory/subcategory/SWB30.html ? OK. Then we win. IBM has no focus. They have lost the plot. Your management could not even hope to keep the analysts awake explaining all this to them, let alone have them understand it all. The IBM field will not know what to sell, or worse still, sell against each other. Customers will simply be confused. If your management truly believes this is a winning strategy then they need to be fired. Personally I don't believe that they are that stupid. Someone is getting their bell rung

> > I just approved publication of recent IDS benchmark results and passed > on to Cindy Fung the details for our next IDS benchmark. Cindy has a Redbrick development background, right ?

elanleblanc@yahoo.com wrote: > Sorry, guys! I've been a bit swamped building sales materials so our > sales teams can more effectively sell Informix. I took out the word > "flagship" because my management does not want me to use the term, > PERIOD! Not for IDS or DB2 or U2 or anything else. You may also > notice that we no longer have database servers. We have data servers > and we have "a portfolio of data servers that provide the right > capabilities across a broad spectrum of requirements - offering > partners and clients greater flexibility to deliver an optimal solution > vs. more narrow "one size fit all" portfolios from other vendors." > Who do you think you are kidding? Is there a whole new class of dumbshits out there that don't know what a database is? What is the difference between a database and a data server? How dumb do you think people are? And, you can ignore me, but keep in mind, it's out there for people to read whether you respond to it or not--put your head in the sand if you like: Where are the uncrippled trials and betas for Informix EXACTLY LIKE DB2? When you show parity with DB2 you will win back some credibility. Put XPS and IDS out for trial and beta JUST LIKE DB2. DOWNLOAD! ( I will bet you will go spinelessly away and ignore this. ) > We have, in effect, come out of the closet. Uh ok... > No one should accuse us > again of having a confusing two database server strategy. HA! Do you honestly believe that? There is so much overlap and confusion TODAY from the list of products. It is amazing that none of you even know what you're selling or trying to 'market'. You don't even know what you have or how to position it. Idiots all of you. > We have > quite a few more than two servers and we are not confused. Hmmmm... well then, perhaps you'll begin to accurately describe what Informix products are, instead of dreaming up concepts nobody believes, or understands, and maybe you'll position these peer products in a way that shows they are really peers. Today DB2 **is** your flagship database no matter what you say here or elsewhere, with Informix the stepchild. Until you change all the web pages, and the artwork, and you publically acknowledge Informix as a legitimate product, nobody is going to believe anything you say. It's all bullshit. > Each of our > servers meets specific requirements and provides a better fit than a > general purpose database management system. So, each product has a > "sweet spot" and we will enhance our servers to strengthen their value > in their respective sweet spots. For IDS, this means OLTP, RFID, > Spatialtemporal capabilities, and embeddability. > Hee hee! Spatialtemporal? embeddability? Are these even words? You guys are getting good crack. > Management is currently meeting with analysts and I will try to get a > read on how those briefings are going as pass along the information as > it becomes available. > Rolling their eyes at this one. > I just approved publication of recent IDS benchmark results and passed > on to Cindy Fung the details for our next IDS benchmark. She will be > taking over as product manager and will drive our benchmarks and work > on vNext. I, in the meantime, will be working with our IBM Business > Partners and Business Partner teams to grow this business. I will > still be working with our direct customers and direct teams as needed. > > > And I still have a single goal. > > WORLD DOMINATION! > For what? > Your assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated! > You could help by resigning today. You'll be a part of a great legacy of losers who couldn't market Informix products if their life depended on it. As part of the legacy you'll never admit you're wrong, and you'll never take a look at what the competition is doing. That is your legacy. Enjoy it! By the time somebody gets in there to do it right it will be yet another day late and a dollar short. The best part is you have a lot of cheerleaders to help keep you in denial. > Christine > > Christine Normile > IDS Channel Marketing Manager > IBM Software Group > Information Management >

> You could help by resigning today. You'll be a part of a great > legacy of losers who couldn't market Informix products if their life > depended on it. As part of the legacy you'll never admit you're wrong, > and you'll never take a look at what the competition is doing. > That is your legacy. Enjoy it! By the time somebody gets in there > to do it right it will be yet another day late and a dollar short. > The best part is you have a lot of cheerleaders to help keep you in > denial. Er, maybe she's a decent woman doing the best job possible within the confines of a large bureaucracy that constrains what she can or cannot say about the product? Play the ball, not the man, eh?

my two 0.01 on this: > that shows they are really peers. Today DB2 **is** your flagship database > no matter what you say here or elsewhere, with Informix the stepchild. db2 is far from being equivalent to Informix Period. it lacks tonns of features and some of them are glued onto it like the way object hierarchies is implemented. (must admit i looked at this a couple of years ago... dono if it's better now.) when i read HDR for db2 and you do not have readonly access to the secondary.... welll... Not mutlithreaded..... well...... spit in your hands folks and start working ...... -->> Tivoli Storage mgr is as far as i can remember multithreaded... may be you want to ask them why this is / can be better ..... so i guess IBM should realize that informix is a real good database and stop pissing on it the way they have done in the past and continue to do so. Continue this road and Informix will be dead soon; it's a real nice suprice it's not dead already the way IBM handled it!!!!!! They forget that they can sell a lot if they stop pissing off people and start working .... don't they want to make money??? also i read somewhere that some ibm folks wanted informix to fail..... i find this unbelievable; are they still employed???? GRMBLLLL Superboer.

Eric Herber wrote "2006 will be the last chance to re-vitalize the Informix platform" That's absolutely true, if you see how strong the competition is. Most other products would have been dead, after 5 years hiding them. So if IBM really wants to re-vitalize IDS, then small steps and shy marketing is unfortunately not enough. Something bigger is needed, f.e.: - A roadmap or statement from the General Manager - SAP support - A very good TPC-C Benchmark Then there would be a real chance not to lose IDS customers to Oracle or Microsoft. I think it should not matter, if revenue comes from DB2 or IDS. IBM is probably afraid of the analysts saying: "IBM lost focus" when they start to do real marketing for Informix products" But the old strategy: "Pushing DB2 and hiding IDS" didn't work. IDS customers went to Oracle, instead of DB2. So better give IDS a big enough niche to really grow business..

Double Echo wrote: > elanleblanc@yahoo.com wrote: >> Sorry, guys! I've been a bit swamped building sales materials so our >> sales teams can more effectively sell Informix. I took out the word >> "flagship" because my management does not want me to use the term, >> PERIOD! Not for IDS or DB2 or U2 or anything else. You may also >> notice that we no longer have database servers. We have data servers >> and we have "a portfolio of data servers that provide the right >> capabilities across a broad spectrum of requirements - offering >> partners and clients greater flexibility to deliver an optimal solution >> vs. more narrow "one size fit all" portfolios from other vendors." >> > > Who do you think you are kidding? Is there a whole new class of > dumbshits out there that don't know what a database is? What is > the difference between a database and a data server? How dumb do > you think people are? > > And, you can ignore me, but keep in mind, it's out there for people to > read whether you respond to it or not--put your head in the sand if you > like: > > Where are the uncrippled trials and betas for Informix EXACTLY LIKE DB2? > When you show parity with DB2 you will win back some credibility. > > Put XPS and IDS out for trial and beta JUST LIKE DB2. DOWNLOAD! > > ( I will bet you will go spinelessly away and ignore this. ) > >> We have, in effect, come out of the closet. > > Uh ok... > > > No one should accuse us >> again of having a confusing two database server strategy. > > HA! Do you honestly believe that? There is so much overlap > and confusion TODAY from the list of products. It is amazing > that none of you even know what you're selling or trying to > 'market'. You don't even know what you have or how to position > it. Idiots all of you. > > > > We have >> quite a few more than two servers and we are not confused. > > Hmmmm... well then, perhaps you'll begin to accurately describe what > Informix products are, instead of dreaming up concepts nobody believes, > or understands, and maybe you'll position these peer products in a way > that shows they are really peers. Today DB2 **is** your flagship database > no matter what you say here or elsewhere, with Informix the stepchild. > Until you change all the web pages, and the artwork, and you publically > acknowledge Informix as a legitimate product, nobody is going to believe > anything you say. It's all bullshit. > > >> Each of our >> servers meets specific requirements and provides a better fit than a >> general purpose database management system. So, each product has a >> "sweet spot" and we will enhance our servers to strengthen their value >> in their respective sweet spots. For IDS, this means OLTP, RFID, >> Spatialtemporal capabilities, and embeddability. >> > > Hee hee! Spatialtemporal? embeddability? Are these even words? > > You guys are getting good crack. > >> Management is currently meeting with analysts and I will try to get a >> read on how those briefings are going as pass along the information as >> it becomes available. >> > > Rolling their eyes at this one. > >> I just approved publication of recent IDS benchmark results and passed >> on to Cindy Fung the details for our next IDS benchmark. She will be >> taking over as product manager and will drive our benchmarks and work >> on vNext. I, in the meantime, will be working with our IBM Business >> Partners and Business Partner teams to grow this business. I will >> still be working with our direct customers and direct teams as needed. >> >> >> And I still have a single goal. >> >> WORLD DOMINATION! >> > > > For what? > > >> Your assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated! >> > > You could help by resigning today. You'll be a part of a great > legacy of losers who couldn't market Informix products if their life > depended on it. As part of the legacy you'll never admit you're wrong, > and you'll never take a look at what the competition is doing. > That is your legacy. Enjoy it! By the time somebody gets in there > to do it right it will be yet another day late and a dollar short. > The best part is you have a lot of cheerleaders to help keep you in > denial. > >> Christine >> >> Christine Normile >> IDS Channel Marketing Manager >> IBM Software Group >> Information Management >> Product managers are - as the name implies - responsible for their products and they earn money for doing that. So it is legitimate that DoubleEcho directly addresses his concerns about the IBM Informix marketing strategy to the (former) IDS product manager. The problem is that (Informix) time is running out. We could sit here and wait for another year on IBM doing an appropriate IDS product marketing. But then it will be too late !! Nearly 5 years has been elapsed since the Informix takeover from IBM and things didn't improve, they declined. The visibility of Informix in the eyes of the managers is lost. Technical people still know and admire the benefits of Informix, but they also know, that it will be difficult to find a job with those Informix based skills. So what happens is that at least a part of them prefer other database solutions which are more visible in the market. We already addressed some of the deficiencies to IBM. However it seems to me that they don't listen carefully enough to these points. It looks like some kind of delaying tactic to me. Trying to squeeze the money out of the Informix customers and putting it into the marketing and development of DB2. This is something that we should not accept anymore. I don't want to hear of any great activities planned around Informix in the 'foreseeable' future. I want to see them happening now !! 2006 will be the last chance to re-vitalize the Informix platform and I'm certain that almost all of us will do their best to make this happen. However it will only be possible with the support of an agile, marketing from the vendor. IBM should carefully listen to the points that DoubleEcho and other Informix followers mentioned and it would be encouraging to see immediate results.

elanleblanc@yahoo.com wrote: > in their respective sweet spots. For IDS, this means OLTP, RFID, > Spatialtemporal capabilities, and embeddability. Don't forget the excellent extensibility offered by the VTI and the VII (Datablades.) AFAIK no other RDBMS has anything nearly as good. Donny

> -----Original Message----- > From: J'rgen Buck [mailto:juergenb@buck-consulting.de] > Posted At: Friday, January 27, 2006 3:29 AM > Posted To: comp.databases.informix > Conversation: flagship sunk > Subject: Re: flagship sunk > > > Eric Herber wrote > "2006 will be the last chance to re-vitalize the Informix platform" > > That's absolutely true, if you see how strong the competition is. > Most other products would have been dead, after 5 years hiding them. > So if IBM really wants to re-vitalize IDS, then small steps and shy > marketing is unfortunately not enough. > Something bigger is needed, f.e.: > - A roadmap or statement from the General Manager > - SAP support > - A very good TPC-C Benchmark [cutting] Such a roadmap has been published many times Paul Watson Tel: +44 1414161772 Mob: +44 7818003457 GO FURTHER with DB2 GET THERE FASTER with Informix. Attend the IDUG 2006 North America Conference. Tampa, Florida, USA. 7-11 May 2006. Visit http://www.iiug.org/conf for more information.

excellent, then there are only 3 things open: - encouraging statement from the general manager - continued SAP support - TPC-C Benchmark

Mark Townsend wrote: > elanleblanc@yahoo.com wrote: > > >> You may also >> notice that we no longer have database servers. We have data servers >> and we have "a portfolio of data servers that provide the right >> capabilities across a broad spectrum of requirements - offering >> partners and clients greater flexibility to deliver an optimal solution >> vs. more narrow "one size fit all" portfolios from other vendors." >> >> We have, in effect, come out of the closet. No one should accuse us >> again of having a confusing two database server strategy. We have >> quite a few more than two servers and we are not confused. > > > This is IBM's data server strategy ? > http://www-306.ibm.com/software/sw-bycategory/subcategory/SWB30.html ? > > OK. Then we win. IBM has no focus. They have lost the plot. Your > management could not even hope to keep the analysts awake explaining all > this to them, let alone have them understand it all. The IBM field will > not know what to sell, or worse still, sell against each other. > Customers will simply be confused. > > If your management truly believes this is a winning strategy then they > need to be fired. Personally I don't believe that they are that stupid. > Someone is getting their bell rung Ah yes.... advise from the Oracle product manager is certainly something I would follow. Clearly you have IBM's best interest in mind Mark. BTW, don't you have something like business conduct guidelines in your shop or is spreading FUD in competitive newsgroups indeed part of your job description? Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development DB2 UDB for Linux, Unix, Windows IBM Toronto Lab

Neil Truby wrote: >>You could help by resigning today. You'll be a part of a great >>legacy of losers who couldn't market Informix products if their life >>depended on it. As part of the legacy you'll never admit you're wrong, >>and you'll never take a look at what the competition is doing. >>That is your legacy. Enjoy it! By the time somebody gets in there >>to do it right it will be yet another day late and a dollar short. >>The best part is you have a lot of cheerleaders to help keep you in >>denial. > > > Er, maybe she's a decent woman doing the best job possible within the > confines of a large bureaucracy that constrains what she can or cannot say > about the product? > > Play the ball, not the man, eh? > > Bollocks/Bullshit. You sided with the cheerleaders. People sell products and people need to take responsibility. The past blunders affected peoples' lives and it is an outrage to see how this company has taken a perfectly good product and ruined it, and basically have taken personal investments and pissed them into the wind. I play the man/woman, and have no patience for obsequious assholes who don't do the right thing. Instead they follow the wrong path, and then find excuses why it didn't work when the wheels came off. It is also interesting to note how what Mark T. said was right on the money, and instead of addressing his issues he was attacked. Wait to see any trade press for Informix, it will be conspicuously absent. When you take whatever product, be it Oracle, Microsoft, or IBM, and look at how their products are aggressively marketed, and then take a look at how Informix has been unmarketed, it is glaringly obvious what is going on. Imagine Oracle or Microsoft behaving the way Informix people have behaved, and you would get exactly the same result. It is an insult to all the people here and behind the scenes to suggest that Informix will succeed with the paltry effort that has been applied, not to mention the deliberate effort to suppress the product. Wake up and smell the coffee it is deja vu all over again. And don't expect the IIUG to help, IBM have them in their pocket, so the best you can hope for it to just watch it all unfold and Informix to slowly, quietly disappear. Tragic, very tragic.

Will Cindy Fung be taking over Bruce Weeds position? Or will she be reporting to Bruce? What far below Ambuj will she be? Do you have an email address for her? Thanks elanleblanc@yahoo .com Sent by: To informix-list-bou informix-list@iiug.org nces@iiug.org cc Subject 01/26/2006 10:51 Re: flagship sunk PM Sorry, guys! I've been a bit swamped building sales materials so our sales teams can more effectively sell Informix. I took out the word "flagship" because my management does not want me to use the term, PERIOD! Not for IDS or DB2 or U2 or anything else. You may also notice that we no longer have database servers. We have data servers and we have "a portfolio of data servers that provide the right capabilities across a broad spectrum of requirements - offering partners and clients greater flexibility to deliver an optimal solution vs. more narrow "one size fit all" portfolios from other vendors." We have, in effect, come out of the closet. No one should accuse us again of having a confusing two database server strategy. We have quite a few more than two servers and we are not confused. Each of our servers meets specific requirements and provides a better fit than a general purpose database management system. So, each product has a "sweet spot" and we will enhance our servers to strengthen their value in their respective sweet spots. For IDS, this means OLTP, RFID, Spatialtemporal capabilities, and embeddability. Management is currently meeting with analysts and I will try to get a read on how those briefings are going as pass along the information as it becomes available. I just approved publication of recent IDS benchmark results and passed on to Cindy Fung the details for our next IDS benchmark. She will be taking over as product manager and will drive our benchmarks and work on vNext. I, in the meantime, will be working with our IBM Business Partners and Business Partner teams to grow this business. I will still be working with our direct customers and direct teams as needed. And I still have a single goal. WORLD DOMINATION! Your assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated! Christine Christine Normile IDS Channel Marketing Manager IBM Software Group Information Management _______________________________________________ Informix-list mailing list Informix-list@iiug.org http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list

J'rgen Buck wrote: > excellent, then there are only 3 things open: > - encouraging statement from the general manager > - continued SAP support > - TPC-C Benchmark Knock TPC benchmarks of your list soon. Did you read Christine's post? Benchmarks, as I told this list months ago, have been performed and will be posted. Art S. Kagel

Mark Townsend wrote: > > This is IBM's data server strategy ? > http://www-306.ibm.com/software/sw-bycategory/subcategory/SWB30.html ? No. This is a list of products. > > OK. Then we win. IBM has no focus. They have lost the plot. Your > management could not even hope to keep the analysts awake explaining all > this to them, let alone have them understand it all. The IBM field will > not know what to sell, or worse still, sell against each other. > Customers will simply be confused. Perhaps you missed your companies purchase of TimesTen this year to help you compete in the embedded space. IBM has a clear focus and has listened to our customers and business partners regarding what their needs are. Informix is alive and well and uniquely suited for it's purpose and we are going to build on it's strengths. The analysts thus far seem able to grasp what we are doing and our customers certainly do. The sales teams know what to sell and how to do it. And they have been doing it for the past year. This has been evidenced by a number of things. We get quite a bit of play around Informix take-out offers on Oracle.com, we get more air there than anywhere. Seems a waste of web real estate if we are not causing someone worry. We had a number of significant Oracle take-outs this year. One customer reports that replacing their Oracle with IDS will save them $33M. > > If your management truly believes this is a winning strategy then they > need to be fired. Personally I don't believe that they are that stupid. > Someone is getting their bell rung Perhaps that is true. Have you been with the dark side so long that you can no longer see a customer-centric winning strategy when you see one? Christine Christine Normile IDS Channel Manager IBM Information Management