ontape,onbar, HDR,ER-Which tool to use?

Greetings to ALL !!! I am new to this forum.Please forgive me for my poor english. We are planning to replicate 40 different IDS10.UC4 connected thru MPLS WAN with 128 kbps LL and central site having 4 mbps link. All these IDS were not connected and local DBA use to take backup in unl formats. Now there is a demand for connecting all these server with central IDS10 server and replicating their data.None of the site is 24X7 and there is 12 hours of backup window.We want to have one day old data at Central site. I want to ask which will be 'good' and 'less invasive' method of implementing this? 1) using onTape will require minimum changes in onconfig and it is the most preferred way of taking the local backup. 2) using onbar will require to configure ISM and some changes in onconfig but it seems that it is LESS reliable.We can also copy transaction logs and restore it at Central site. 3) HDR has some licencing issue so HDR is out and moreover we just want to have READONLY copy of database with 12 hours of lagging. 4)ER seems to the perfect choice but i am not sure if all the tables have PK.

Hi, ontape is easy to use and pretty much independent of other software. ON-Bar is reliable, but more complicated. Especially when doing restore of something (dbspaces, logs or both) on a remote machine I'd recommend using a fully-functional storage manager. This is an additional software component (with extra pricing). Using ISM only and doing the "imported restore" procedure all the time would be quite tedious. HDR is out of the question for your scenario, because it allows only one Secondary (not 40). ER is certainly is an option, but there I'm not an expert. You'd have to test that the "slave" servers don't fall behind too much (because of network speed, less CPU power, etc.) - that would cause problems. I think IDS 11.10 would work much better for your scenario. As part of "Mach 11" it has the possibility of RSS (Remote Standalone Secondary) servers. It is similar to HDR, but you can have more than one (i.e. 40). And the RSS servers would be read-only - which would match your requirements. Also (low) network throughput is not so much an issue for RSSs - they can fall back a bit and then later catch up again. For more info please see this white paper "Availability Solutions with Informix Dynamic Server 11": ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/data/informix/ids11-availability-wp.pdf Regards, Martin -- Martin Fuerderer IBM Informix Development Munich, Germany Information Management IBM Deutschland GmbH Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Hans Ulrich Märki Board of Management: Martin Jetter (Chairman), Rudolf Bauer, Christian Diedrich, Christoph Grandpierre, Matthias Hartmann, Thomas Fell, Michael Diemer Corporate Seat: Stuttgart, Germany; Reg.-Gericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB-Nr.: 14 562 WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 99369940 ids-bounces@iiug.org wrote on 07.12.2007 10:31:04: > Greetings to ALL !!! > I am new to this forum.Please forgive me for my poor english. > > We are planning to replicate 40 different IDS10.UC4 connected thru MPLS WAN > with 128 kbps LL and central site having 4 mbps link. > All these IDS were not connected and local DBA use to take backup in unl > formats. > Now there is a demand for connecting all these server with central IDS10 > server and replicating their data.None of the site is 24X7 and there is 12 > hours of backup window.We want to have one day old data at Central site. > > I want to ask which will be 'good' and 'less invasive' method of implementing > this? > 1) using onTape will require minimum changes in onconfig and it is the most > preferred way of taking the local backup. > 2) using onbar will require to configure ISM and some changes in onconfig but > it seems that it is LESS reliable.We can also copy transaction logs and > restore it at Central site. > 3) HDR has some licencing issue so HDR is out and moreover we just want to > have READONLY copy of database with 12 hours of lagging. > 4)ER seems to the perfect choice but i am not sure if all the tables have PK. > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.

Before we can advise, we need to have a better understanding of your business requirements. Do the 40 servers need to function as independent nodes for instance, o= r are they strictly read only replicas of the central server? Do you need to support rolling upgrades? Are all of the servers the same hardware configuration? With IDS v10, we have the ability to perform an online synchronization within ER. It might be that you want to use that to create the initial= copies of the data. ------------------------------------- Madison Pruet, STSM IDS Replication Architect = "SHAILESH MISHRA" = <mishra_shailesh@ = rediffmail.com> = To Sent by: ids@iiug.org = ids-bounces@iiug. = cc org = Subj= ect ontape,onbar, HDR,ER-Which tool = to 12/07/2007 03:31 use? [10640] = AM = = = Please respond to = ids@iiug.org = = = Greetings to ALL !!! I am new to this forum.Please forgive me for my poor english. We are planning to replicate 40 different IDS10.UC4 connected thru MPLS= WAN with 128 kbps LL and central site having 4 mbps link. All these IDS were not connected and local DBA use to take backup in un= l formats. Now there is a demand for connecting all these server with central IDS1= 0 server and replicating their data.None of the site is 24X7 and there is= 12 hours of backup window.We want to have one day old data at Central site= . I want to ask which will be 'good' and 'less invasive' method of implementing this? 1) using onTape will require minimum changes in onconfig and it is the = most preferred way of taking the local backup. 2) using onbar will require to configure ISM and some changes in onconf= ig but it seems that it is LESS reliable.We can also copy transaction logs and= restore it at Central site. 3) HDR has some licencing issue so HDR is out and moreover we just want= to have READONLY copy of database with 12 hours of lagging. 4)ER seems to the perfect choice but i am not sure if all the tables ha= ve PK. ***********************************************************************= ******** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. =

There´s a lot of changes you heave to do to implement ER. Even if you have Pk in all tables you must create the shadows columns in each talbe you want to replicate. Do you really need a full replication of ALL databases from ALL your Informix Instances. I would make a backup/restore synchronization, but not ontape. Iwould do it using onbar, once it have paralelism and granul. better then ontape> To: ids@iiug.org> From: mpruet@us.ibm.com> Subject: Re: ontape,onbar, HDR,ER-Which tool to use? [10647]> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:47:35 -0500> > Before we can advise, we need to have a better understanding of your > business requirements. > > Do the 40 servers need to function as independent nodes for instance, o= > r > are they strictly read only replicas of the central server? > > Do you need to support rolling upgrades? > > Are all of the servers the same hardware configuration? > > With IDS v10, we have the ability to perform an online synchronization > within ER. It might be that you want to use that to create the initial= > > copies of the data. > > ------------------------------------- > Madison Pruet, STSM > IDS Replication Architect > > = > > "SHAILESH MISHRA" = > > <mishra_shailesh@ = > > rediffmail.com> = > To > > Sent by: ids@iiug.org = > > ids-bounces@iiug. = > cc > > org = > > Subj= > ect > > ontape,onbar, HDR,ER-Which tool = > to > > 12/07/2007 03:31 use? [10640] = > > AM = > > = > > = > > Please respond to = > > ids@iiug.org = > > = > > = > > Greetings to ALL !!! > I am new to this forum.Please forgive me for my poor english. > > We are planning to replicate 40 different IDS10.UC4 connected thru MPLS= > WAN > > with 128 kbps LL and central site having 4 mbps link. > All these IDS were not connected and local DBA use to take backup in un= > l > formats. > Now there is a demand for connecting all these server with central IDS1= > 0 > server and replicating their data.None of the site is 24X7 and there is= > 12 > hours of backup window.We want to have one day old data at Central site= > .. > > I want to ask which will be 'good' and 'less invasive' method of > implementing > this? > 1) using onTape will require minimum changes in onconfig and it is the = > most > > preferred way of taking the local backup. > 2) using onbar will require to configure ISM and some changes in onconf= > ig > but > it seems that it is LESS reliable.We can also copy transaction logs and= > > restore it at Central site. > 3) HDR has some licencing issue so HDR is out and moreover we just want= > to > have READONLY copy of database with 12 hours of lagging. > 4)ER seems to the perfect choice but i am not sure if all the tables ha= > ve > PK. > > ***********************************************************************= > ******** > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > = > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > _________________________________________________________________ Veja mapas e encontre as melhores rotas para fugir do trânsito com o Live Search Maps! http://www.livemaps.com.br/index.aspx?tr=true

------------------------------------- Madison Pruet, STSM IDS Replication Architect = "Andr=E9 Luiz = Rufino" = <andre_rufino@msn = To .com> ids@iiug.org = Sent by: = cc ids-bounces@iiug. = org Subj= ect RE: ontape,onbar, HDR,ER-Which t= ool to use? [10649] = 12/07/2007 08:28 = AM = = = Please respond to = ids@iiug.org = = = >There=B4s a lot of changes you heave to do to implement ER. Even if yo= u have Pk >in all tables you must create the shadows columns in each talbe you wa= nt to >replicate. This is only a requirement if doing multi-mastered replication. If doing uni-directional replication, it is not required. ***********************************************************************= ******** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. =

Onbar is extremely reliable and flexible. Perhaps ISM isn't but onbar is. We've used onbar for years with Veritas Netbackup. Do you have a corporate "standard" for your backup software such as Netbackup or IBM TSM (Tivoli)? Onbar will work very well with Netbackup, I have no experience with Informix with IBM TSM or Informix with basic ISM. I would bet on onbar against any other DB vendor backup/restore tool/process. I have little experience with Oracle RMAN, Informix onbar is not as complex. I am just getting experience with IBM DB2 backups/restores, Informix onbar is much more reliable and flexible. I am not suggesting onbar be your solution in this case, just please do not dismiss it so quickly. Thank you, NJ Sebastian

Thank you all for guiding me and helping me. We will definetely be looking forward to implement HDR and RSS once we get 40 new servers for remote locations.I think implementing HDR at remote locations(Master/Slave) and RSS for the whole organisation. More over,we will be buying IDS 11.X for these new servers. I suppose there wont be any major problem in making HDR(IDS10 <-->IDS11). We dont'd have any third party storage manager(Tivoli or any other). ER requires PK in all the participating tables and there will be many changes at database structure level,We cant aford to do so.We are running one legecy customised ERP for manufacturing and any changes to that will be "VERY RISKY JOB" indeed. I think i will go for either ontape or onbar.As we dont have any third part Storage manager and ISM is not upto the mark,so onbar is second to ontape. I am planning to use "Ontape -t STDIO > /some/file" type of thing.i need not to ask local DBA to make any changes in onconfig file either. Once file is generated,we will ask local DBA to send it to Central location after compressing.At central location,we will restore existing database from this remote backup file.It will be troublesome for Level 0 backup but this is true for all types of Replication methodology. Once Central database is made up from Level-0 backup of remote units,we will ask remote sites to take level-1 backup daily and send it central location.(later on will automate this thru passwordless shell environment).I hope this will work in our scenario. I am definetely looking forward for any suggestion or further refinement on this line. Our organisation is using Informix for the last 20 years but still We dont have any so called 'DBA'.Informix gives so less trouble that we dont have any dedicated DBA at factory site.

Hi, HDR is based on database restore and logical log rollforward, therefore the HDR instances must run the same IDS version (in many cases even the same fixpack). Therefore HDR between IDS10 and IDS11 will not work, at least I think so. Regards, Andreas Kutsche > ------------------------------------------- SPAR Österreichische Warenhandels-AG Hauptzentrale A - 5015 Salzburg, Europastrasse 3 FN 34170 a Tel: +43 662 4470 24223 Mobile: +43 664 6259575 E-Mail: Andreas.KUTSCHE@spar.at Internet: http://www.spar.at Wichtiger Hinweis: Der Inhalt dieser E-Mail kann vertrauliche und rechtlich geschützte Informationen, insbesondere Betriebs- oder Geschäftsgeheimnisse, enthalten, zu deren Geheimhaltung der Empfänger verpflichtet ist. Die Informationen in dieser E-Mail sind ausschließlich für den Adressaten bestimmt. Sollten Sie die E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben so ersuchen wir Sie, die Nachricht von Ihrem System zu löschen und sich mit uns in Verbindung zu setzen. Über das Internet versandte E-Mails können leicht manipuliert oder unter fremdem Namen erstellt werden. Daher schließen wir die rechtliche Verbindlichkeit der in dieser Nachricht enthaltenen Informationen aus. Der Inhalt der E-Mail ist nur rechtsverbindlich, wenn er von uns schriftlich bestätigt und gezeichnet wird. Sollte trotz der von uns verwendeten Virus-Schutzprogramme durch die Zusendung von E-Mails ein Virus in Ihre Systeme gelangen, haften wir nicht für evtl. hieraus entstehende Schäden. Wir danken für Ihr Verständnis. Important notice: The contents of this e-mail may contain confidential and legally protected information that is in particular related to operational and trade secrets, which the recipient is obliged to treat as confidential. The information in this e-mail is made available exclusively for use by the addressee. In the event that the e-mail may have been sent to you in error, we would ask you to kindly delete this communication from your system and to contact us. E-mails sent via the Internet can be easily manipulated or sent out under someone else's name. We therefore do not accept legal liability for the information contained in this communication. The contents of the e-mail are only legally binding if they have been confirmed and signed by us in writing. If, in spite of our using Antivirus protection software, a virus may have penetrated your system through the sending of this e-mail, we do not accept liability for any damage that may possibly arise as a result of this. We trust that you appreciate our position. ------------------------------------------- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] Im Auftrag von > SHAILESH MISHRA > Gesendet: Montag, 10. Dezember 2007 07:43 > An: ids@iiug.org > Betreff: Re: ontape,onbar, HDR,ER-Which tool to use? [10663] > > Thank you all for guiding me and helping me. > > We will definetely be looking forward to implement HDR and RSS > once we get 40 new servers for remote locations.I think implementing > HDR at remote locations(Master/Slave) and RSS for the whole organisation. > More over,we will be buying IDS 11.X for these new servers. > I suppose there wont be any major problem in making HDR(IDS10 <-->IDS11). > > We dont'd have any third party storage manager(Tivoli or any other). > > ER requires PK in all the participating tables and there will be many > changes > at database structure level,We cant aford to do so.We are running one > legecy > customised ERP for manufacturing and any changes to that will be "VERY > RISKY > JOB" indeed. > > I think i will go for either ontape or onbar.As we dont have any third > part > Storage manager and ISM is not upto the mark,so onbar is second to ontape. > > I am planning to use "Ontape -t STDIO > /some/file" type of thing.i need > not > to ask local DBA to make any changes in onconfig file either. > > Once file is generated,we will ask local DBA to send it to Central > location > after compressing.At central location,we will restore existing database > from > this remote backup file.It will be troublesome for Level 0 backup but this > is > true for all types of Replication methodology. > > Once Central database is made up from Level-0 backup of remote units,we > will > ask remote sites to take level-1 backup daily and send it central > location.(later on will automate this thru passwordless shell > environment).I > hope this will work in our scenario. > > I am definetely looking forward for any suggestion or further refinement > on > this line. > > Our organisation is using Informix for the last 20 years but still We dont > have any so called 'DBA'.Informix gives so less trouble that we dont have > any > dedicated DBA at factory site. > > > ************************************************************************** > ***** > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.

Thanks for updating me on HDR. As of now there is no plan on it. What do u think about making the "READ ONLY" replica of 40 different servers using ontape in IDS10?