RE: TPS

Mark, Essentially you asked a very stupid question. You gave no sort of point of reference to let us form an answer. And yes, I know who you are.... ;-) Look, I guess you never went through the solution selling methodology training so I'm going to cut you some slack and explain it to you.... You have failed to identify and understand the customer's pain. They talk about wanting to move to Oracle. The question is why? What are the motivating factors. You need to ask these question(s) in order to solicit their pain points. You also need to understand that these pains are most likely not technical in nature. It doesn't matter what technical mumbo jumbo you throw in front of the customer, because until you understand their pain, you're not offering them a viable solution. If a customer is unwilling to state their pains then you're column fodder and should walk away from the deal. A simple example... someone from the IBM sales team pissed them off to the point that become an "Anybody but IBM" type of customer. (And yes, they do exist....) >From a technical perspective. What you ask can be done in either oracle, DB2, IDS, etc ... if you build a fast enough and big enough bread box. Thats why benchmark issues are really becoming secondary. -G PS. It could also be the messenger Mark. ;-) > From: mark.scranton@gmail.com > Subject: Re: TPS > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:59:02 -0800 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > On Jan 29, 4:49 pm, 'Jack Parker' <jack.park...@verizon.net> wrote: > > What I work with or have worked with is immaterial. I was merely trying to > > point out that anecdotal evidence is no substitute for due diligence. If I > > had to defend my shop from a port to Oracle, I would do the work to show the > > cost vs value of such a port. > > > > cheers > > j. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ian Michael Gumby [mailto:im_gu...@hotmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 2:38 PM > > To: Jack Parker; mark.scran...@gmail.com; informix-l...@iiug.org > > Subject: RE: TPS > > > > Jack, > > > > I'm not sure exactly what the question is. > > > > Do you have both fast OLTP Oracle and fast OLTP IDS? > > > > My answer is yes to both, however, I can't go in to details on them due to > > NDAs. > > > > > Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:46:38 -0500 > > > From: jack.park...@verizon.net > > > Subject: RE: TPS > > > To: mark.scran...@gmail.com; informix-l...@iiug.org > > > > > I'm curious as to why anyone would request Oracle TPS numbers in an > > Informix > > > group. I do not see a crosspost on this in c.d.o.. I would be suspicious > > > of any conclusions drawn from answers to such an apparently one-sided > > > question. > > > > > cheers > > > j. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: informix-list-boun...@iiug.org > > > [mailto:informix-list-boun...@iiug.org]On Behalf Of > > > mark.scran...@gmail.com > > > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 6:10 PM > > > To: informix-l...@iiug.org > > > Subject: TPS > > > > > Curious - > > > > > Two questions - > > > > > 1) How many of your ifmx engines are at 500 transactions per second or > > > greater? > > > > > 2) anyone have any oracle engines in that range? > > > > > Thanks! > > > Mark Scranton > > > Xtivia Inc. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Informix-list mailing list > > > Informix-l...@iiug.org > > >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Informix-list mailing list > > > Informix-l...@iiug.org > > >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > ---- > > Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star > > power. Play now! > > Guys - > > Thanks for the inputs. I guess since I haven't 'been out front of > everyone (presenting) for awhile', so some have forgotten where I've > been and what I've done over the years. Ian - all your points have > been suggested to the client long ago, and well thought through on how > to present it. Clients don't believe those points cause they just > think you're informix-biased, so telling them about staffing and such > really doesn't matter, especially when it's a political battle driven > by the mgmt. Jack - my strongest recommendation already was to do a > POC (proof of concept) and let that speak for itself. Do you REALLY > think I wouldn't have suggested that? I mean really... > > Never thought I'd get such attention from such a simple question. The > reason I made it 'simple' was that if anyone jumped up saying 'yes', > then I'd dig deeper. I see that approach as much more efficient than > dumping out all the detail first. I spent less than a minute on the > post. That was good by me! > > The responses HAVE been entertaining though! > > Thanks - > Mark Scranton > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

On Jan 30, 9:54 am, Ian Michael Gumby <im_gu...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Mark, > > Essentially you asked a very stupid question. > You gave no sort of point of reference to let us form an answer. > And yes, I know who you are.... ;-) > > Look, > > I guess you never went through the solution selling methodology training so I'm going to cut you some slack and explain it to you.... > > You have failed to identify and understand the customer's pain. They talk about wanting to move to Oracle. > The question is why? What are the motivating factors. > > You need to ask these question(s) in order to solicit their pain points. > You also need to understand that these pains are most likely not technical in nature. > > It doesn't matter what technical mumbo jumbo you throw in front of the customer, because until you understand their pain, you're not offering them a viable solution. If a customer is unwilling to state their pains then you're column fodder and should walk away from the deal. A simple example... someone from the IBM sales team pissed them off to the point that become an "Anybody but IBM" type of customer. (And yes, they do exist....) > > >From a technical perspective. What you ask can be done in either oracle, DB2, IDS, etc ... if you build a fast enough and big enough bread box. Thats why benchmark issues are really becoming secondary. > > -G > > PS. > It could also be the messenger Mark. ;-) > > > > > From: mark.scran...@gmail.com > > Subject: Re: TPS > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:59:02 -0800 > > To: informix-l...@iiug.org > > > On Jan 29, 4:49 pm, 'Jack Parker' <jack.park...@verizon.net> wrote: > > > What I work with or have worked with is immaterial. I was merely trying to > > > point out that anecdotal evidence is no substitute for due diligence. If I > > > had to defend my shop from a port to Oracle, I would do the work to show the > > > cost vs value of such a port. > > > > cheers > > > j. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ian Michael Gumby [mailto:im_gu...@hotmail.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 2:38 PM > > > To: Jack Parker; mark.scran...@gmail.com; informix-l...@iiug.org > > > Subject: RE: TPS > > > > Jack, > > > > I'm not sure exactly what the question is. > > > > Do you have both fast OLTP Oracle and fast OLTP IDS? > > > > My answer is yes to both, however, I can't go in to details on them due to > > > NDAs. > > > > > Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:46:38 -0500 > > > > From: jack.park...@verizon.net > > > > Subject: RE: TPS > > > > To: mark.scran...@gmail.com; informix-l...@iiug.org > > > > > I'm curious as to why anyone would request Oracle TPS numbers in an > > > Informix > > > > group. I do not see a crosspost on this in c.d.o.. I would be suspicious > > > > of any conclusions drawn from answers to such an apparently one-sided > > > > question. > > > > > cheers > > > > j. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: informix-list-boun...@iiug.org > > > > [mailto:informix-list-boun...@iiug.org]On Behalf Of > > > > mark.scran...@gmail.com > > > > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 6:10 PM > > > > To: informix-l...@iiug.org > > > > Subject: TPS > > > > > Curious - > > > > > Two questions - > > > > > 1) How many of your ifmx engines are at 500 transactions per second or > > > > greater? > > > > > 2) anyone have any oracle engines in that range? > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Mark Scranton > > > > Xtivia Inc. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Informix-list mailing list > > > > Informix-l...@iiug.org > > > >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Informix-list mailing list > > > > Informix-l...@iiug.org > > > >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > > ---- > > > Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star > > > power. Play now! > > > Guys - > > > Thanks for the inputs. I guess since I haven't 'been out front of > > everyone (presenting) for awhile', so some have forgotten where I've > > been and what I've done over the years. Ian - all your points have > > been suggested to the client long ago, and well thought through on how > > to present it. Clients don't believe those points cause they just > > think you're informix-biased, so telling them about staffing and such > > really doesn't matter, especially when it's a political battle driven > > by the mgmt. Jack - my strongest recommendation already was to do a > > POC (proof of concept) and let that speak for itself. Do you REALLY > > think I wouldn't have suggested that? I mean really... > > > Never thought I'd get such attention from such a simple question. The > > reason I made it 'simple' was that if anyone jumped up saying 'yes', > > then I'd dig deeper. I see that approach as much more efficient than > > dumping out all the detail first. I spent less than a minute on the > > post. That was good by me! > > > The responses HAVE been entertaining though! > > > Thanks - > > Mark Scranton > > _______________________________________________ > > Informix-list mailing list > > Informix-l...@iiug.org > >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > _________________________________________________________________ > Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_... G - Could you explain points 3 and 4 just a little deeper? Me - being in this stupid question mode - "is" (sic) having a hard time understanding how I should approach customers. Can you enlighten me further? Thanks so much! Mark

Looks like it was just bait Gumpy. When somebody uses terms like 'transaction' loosely, you should realize it was just bait, they never had any intention of asking a real question. If somebody were really going through an analysis of a customer's needs do you really think they were going to post something as lame as that to a newsgroup? It was bait, just to get attention. Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > Mark, > > Essentially you asked a very stupid question. > You gave no sort of point of reference to let us form an answer. > And yes, I know who you are.... ;-) > > Look, > > I guess you never went through the solution selling methodology training > so I'm going to cut you some slack and explain it to you.... > > You have failed to identify and understand the customer's pain. They > talk about wanting to move to Oracle. > The question is why? What are the motivating factors. > > You need to ask these question(s) in order to solicit their pain points. > You also need to understand that these pains are most likely not > technical in nature. > > It doesn't matter what technical mumbo jumbo you throw in front of the > customer, because until you understand their pain, you're not offering > them a viable solution. If a customer is unwilling to state their pains > then you're column fodder and should walk away from the deal. A simple > example... someone from the IBM sales team pissed them off to the point > that become an "Anybody but IBM" type of customer. (And yes, they do > exist....) > > > From a technical perspective. What you ask can be done in either > oracle, DB2, IDS, etc ... if you build a fast enough and big enough > bread box. Thats why benchmark issues are really becoming secondary. > > -G > > PS. > It could also be the messenger Mark. ;-) > > > > From: mark.scranton@gmail.com > > Subject: Re: TPS > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:59:02 -0800 > > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > > > On Jan 29, 4:49 pm, 'Jack Parker' <jack.park...@verizon.net> wrote: > > > What I work with or have worked with is immaterial. I was merely > trying to > > > point out that anecdotal evidence is no substitute for due > diligence. If I > > > had to defend my shop from a port to Oracle, I would do the work to > show the > > > cost vs value of such a port. > > > > > > cheers > > > j. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ian Michael Gumby [mailto:im_gu...@hotmail.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 2:38 PM > > > To: Jack Parker; mark.scran...@gmail.com; informix-l...@iiug.org > > > Subject: RE: TPS > > > > > > Jack, > > > > > > I'm not sure exactly what the question is. > > > > > > Do you have both fast OLTP Oracle and fast OLTP IDS? > > > > > > My answer is yes to both, however, I can't go in to details on them > due to > > > NDAs. > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:46:38 -0500 > > > > From: jack.park...@verizon.net > > > > Subject: RE: TPS > > > > To: mark.scran...@gmail.com; informix-l...@iiug.org > > > > > > > I'm curious as to why anyone would request Oracle TPS numbers in an > > > Informix > > > > group. I do not see a crosspost on this in c.d.o.. I would be > suspicious > > > > of any conclusions drawn from answers to such an apparently one-sided > > > > question. > > > > > > > cheers > > > > j. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: informix-list-boun...@iiug.org > > > > [mailto:informix-list-boun...@iiug.org]On Behalf Of > > > > mark.scran...@gmail.com > > > > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 6:10 PM > > > > To: informix-l...@iiug.org > > > > Subject: TPS > > > > > > > Curious - > > > > > > > Two questions - > > > > > > > 1) How many of your ifmx engines are at 500 transactions per > second or > > > > greater? > > > > > > > 2) anyone have any oracle engines in that range? > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Mark Scranton > > > > Xtivia Inc. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Informix-list mailing list > > > > Informix-l...@iiug.org > > > >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Informix-list mailing list > > > > Informix-l...@iiug.org > > > >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > ---- > > > Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge > with star > > > power. Play now! > > > > Guys - > > > > Thanks for the inputs. I guess since I haven't 'been out front of > > everyone (presenting) for awhile', so some have forgotten where I've > > been and what I've done over the years. Ian - all your points have > > been suggested to the client long ago, and well thought through on how > > to present it. Clients don't believe those points cause they just > > think you're informix-biased, so telling them about staffing and such > > really doesn't matter, especially when it's a political battle driven > > by the mgmt. Jack - my strongest recommendation already was to do a > > POC (proof of concept) and let that speak for itself. Do you REALLY > > think I wouldn't have suggested that? I mean really... > > > > Never thought I'd get such attention from such a simple question. The > > reason I made it 'simple' was that if anyone jumped up saying 'yes', > > then I'd dig deeper. I see that approach as much more efficient than > > dumping out all the detail first. I spent less than a minute on the > > post. That was good by me! > > > > The responses HAVE been entertaining though! > > > > Thanks - > > Mark Scranton > > _______________________________________________ > > Informix-list mailing list > > Informix-list@iiug.org > > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now! > <http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008>;

On Jan 31, 7:49 am, InDeep <ind...@indeep.com> wrote: > Looks like it was just bait Gumpy. > > When somebody uses terms like 'transaction' loosely, you should realize > it was just bait, they never had any intention of asking a real question. > If somebody were really going through an analysis of a customer's needs > do you really think they were going to post something as lame as that > to a newsgroup? It was bait, just to get attention. > > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > > Mark, > > > Essentially you asked a very stupid question. > > You gave no sort of point of reference to let us form an answer. > > And yes, I know who you are.... ;-) > > > Look, > > > I guess you never went through the solution selling methodology training > > so I'm going to cut you some slack and explain it to you.... > > > You have failed to identify and understand the customer's pain. They > > talk about wanting to move to Oracle. > > The question is why? What are the motivating factors. > > > You need to ask these question(s) in order to solicit their pain points. > > You also need to understand that these pains are most likely not > > technical in nature. > > > It doesn't matter what technical mumbo jumbo you throw in front of the > > customer, because until you understand their pain, you're not offering > > them a viable solution. If a customer is unwilling to state their pains > > then you're column fodder and should walk away from the deal. A simple > > example... someone from the IBM sales team pissed them off to the point > > that become an "Anybody but IBM" type of customer. (And yes, they do > > exist....) > > > From a technical perspective. What you ask can be done in either > > oracle, DB2, IDS, etc ... if you build a fast enough and big enough > > bread box. Thats why benchmark issues are really becoming secondary. > > > -G > > > PS. > > It could also be the messenger Mark. ;-) > > > > From: mark.scran...@gmail.com > > > Subject: Re: TPS > > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:59:02 -0800 > > > To: informix-l...@iiug.org > > > > On Jan 29, 4:49 pm, 'Jack Parker' <jack.park...@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > What I work with or have worked with is immaterial. I was merely > > trying to > > > > point out that anecdotal evidence is no substitute for due > > diligence. If I > > > > had to defend my shop from a port to Oracle, I would do the work to > > show the > > > > cost vs value of such a port. > > > > > cheers > > > > j. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Ian Michael Gumby [mailto:im_gu...@hotmail.com] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 2:38 PM > > > > To: Jack Parker; mark.scran...@gmail.com; informix-l...@iiug.org > > > > Subject: RE: TPS > > > > > Jack, > > > > > I'm not sure exactly what the question is. > > > > > Do you have both fast OLTP Oracle and fast OLTP IDS? > > > > > My answer is yes to both, however, I can't go in to details on them > > due to > > > > NDAs. > > > > > > Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:46:38 -0500 > > > > > From: jack.park...@verizon.net > > > > > Subject: RE: TPS > > > > > To: mark.scran...@gmail.com; informix-l...@iiug.org > > > > > > I'm curious as to why anyone would request Oracle TPS numbers in an > > > > Informix > > > > > group. I do not see a crosspost on this in c.d.o.. I would be > > suspicious > > > > > of any conclusions drawn from answers to such an apparently one-sided > > > > > question. > > > > > > cheers > > > > > j. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: informix-list-boun...@iiug.org > > > > > [mailto:informix-list-boun...@iiug.org]On Behalf Of > > > > > mark.scran...@gmail.com > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 6:10 PM > > > > > To: informix-l...@iiug.org > > > > > Subject: TPS > > > > > > Curious - > > > > > > Two questions - > > > > > > 1) How many of your ifmx engines are at 500 transactions per > > second or > > > > > greater? > > > > > > 2) anyone have any oracle engines in that range? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > Mark Scranton > > > > > Xtivia Inc. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Informix-list mailing list > > > > > Informix-l...@iiug.org > > > > >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Informix-list mailing list > > > > > Informix-l...@iiug.org > > > > >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - > > > > ---- > > > > Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge > > with star > > > > power. Play now! > > > > Guys - > > > > Thanks for the inputs. I guess since I haven't 'been out front of > > > everyone (presenting) for awhile', so some have forgotten where I've > > > been and what I've done over the years. Ian - all your points have > > > been suggested to the client long ago, and well thought through on how > > > to present it. Clients don't believe those points cause they just > > > think you're informix-biased, so telling them about staffing and such > > > really doesn't matter, especially when it's a political battle driven > > > by the mgmt. Jack - my strongest recommendation already was to do a > > > POC (proof of concept) and let that speak for itself. Do you REALLY > > > think I wouldn't have suggested that? I mean really... > > > > Never thought I'd get such attention from such a simple question. The > > > reason I made it 'simple' was that if anyone jumped up saying 'yes', > > > then I'd dig deeper. I see that approach as much more efficient than > > > dumping out all the detail first. I spent less than a minute on the > > > post. That was good by me! > > > > The responses HAVE been entertaining though! > > > > Thanks - > > > Mark Scranton > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Informix-list mailing list > > > Informix-l...@iiug.org > > >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now! > > <http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_...>; What's "lame" is when people post pointed, insulting statements to a newsgroup under a fake name. When I found out who Gumby was the other day, I realized his responses don't matter, so i've ignored them. No - it wasn't bait. I simply thought it might start some "good conversation" about what is being seen in the industry. It's too bad when someone that has given 22+ years of his career to the Informix community, (rec'd an IIUG award for my efforts in education and technical knowledge (although most can appreciate the true irony in that one!)), been a much-requested speaker all over the world, and is trusted by clients for technical opinions and honesty, can't post a simple question to the newsgroup without getting slammed by writers who ca

> On Jan 31, 7:49 am, InDeep <ind...@indeep.com> wrote: >> Looks like it was just bait Gumpy. >> >> When somebody uses terms like 'transaction' loosely, you should realize >> it was just bait, they never had any intention of asking a real question. >> If somebody were really going through an analysis of a customer's needs >> do you really think they were going to post something as lame as that >> to a newsgroup? It was bait, just to get attention. >> mark.scranton@gmail.com wrote: > What's "lame" is when people post pointed, insulting statements to a > newsgroup under a fake name. When I found out who Gumby was the other > day, I realized his responses don't matter, so i've ignored them. > You decide in usenet how much protection is important for you and your family. Me? I don't think anonymous detracts from good posts, only if the post itself has nothing in it. Using your 'real name' does increase your personal risk with possible misuse of your information. You might want to consider anonymous postings just to protect yourself. > No - it wasn't bait. I simply thought it might start some "good > conversation" about what is being seen in the industry. It's too bad > when someone that has given 22+ years of his career to the Informix > community, (rec'd an IIUG award for my efforts in education and > technical knowledge (although most can appreciate the true irony in > that one!)), been a much-requested speaker all over the world, and is > trusted by clients for technical opinions and honesty, can't post a > simple question to the newsgroup without getting slammed by writers > who can't even stand up under their own name. I guess the technical > chops are in question, so further "debate" would be futile, and it's > only value could be entertainment. > You seem to have personal validation issues. > OBTW - I have rec'd some direct responses to the post. We are > currently discussing technical details and both are gaining new > knowledge of the topic in question. Keep in mind, there are some of us > that are onsite and billable 100% of the time doing Informix work, so > getting feedback from the "non-anonymous" community of users can be of > great benefit. If anyone wants to dig in deeper and help the informix > community further, jump in! For InDeep and Gumby, I wouldn't expect > much technical knowledge of any merit. But the two of you could sit > and endlessly discuss transaction definitions. (As if we need more of > that type of textbook). Gumby could throw in a chapter on selling > methodology. Wee hoo! Meanwhile, I'll be doing as I've been doing for > 20 years...fighting to keep the Informix product alive and well...in a > manner the customers have found very solid, respectful, honest, and > with high integrity. (Unlike anonymous postings). > > Now I feel much better... > > Mark > You like to rant, which is not a bad thing per se, just do it more often to get better at it. I think you have potential, keep it up!

mark.scranton@gmail.com wrote: > When I found out who Gumby was the other > day, I realized his responses don't matter, so i've ignored them. Really ? I've always ignored his posts just because they were shite...

> From: indeep@indeep.com > Subject: Re: TPS > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:36:39 -0800 > To: informix-list@iiug.org What can I say? I've been posting as Gumby since '97 and well, everybody who's anybody already knows who I am. As to the contents of my posts? Well what you do is up to you. I can tell you that there are two CEOs who would have been better off if they had listened. ;-) Its great that Mark is out there pounding sand saving one informix client at a time. But maybe that's not a good thing. As a sales critter, I wouldn't want Mark to present anything to a C level executive. I tried to explain to Mark a high level overview of SSM, (Solution Selling Methodology), but well. Mark is Mark. The point is that Mark, rather than thinking about the situation, and trying to understand the pain which is forcing the customer to look at Oracle, he's going to run around like a wild man and try to put together a bunch of meaningless statistics. In context, a good team can get anything to run on any database and match realistic specs. If you toss enough money behind a solution, you can even make pigs fly. If you have a working solution on Informix, then why is the customer thinking of a migration to Oracle? Its not a technical issue, its more of a political issue. No? But hey! What do I know? Unlike Mark, I've spent time working with customers supporting solutions on multiple database platforms. Rather than being tied to a specific product, I do what's best for the client and work within their parameters. ;-) -G _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

>> I've been posting as Gumby since '97 and well, everybody who's anybody >> already knows who I am. I'm offedned now, because I don't ;-(