Re: Migrating to Oracle <sigh>
Not a technical problem thread — it's a debate sparked by a post about migrating off Informix to Oracle. DA Morgan claimed Oracle Fusion Applications were unlikely to support Informix because IBM had chosen to make the required changes only in DB2, and accused IBM of neglecting IDS. IBM's Serge Rielau denied any such agreement and noted IBM developers are paid for work on either engine; others argued Oracle would keep supporting IDS for existing PeopleSoft customers. The exchange degenerated into jabs about Rielau's role and credibility, and no factual conclusion or resolution is recorded.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
Jean Georges Perrin wrote: > I am not going to read Oracle marketing propaganda. Where does it state > which database are / are not supported? > > By the time Fusion will be out, Oracle will certainly be version 17... Good grief this is software not religion. The more you know about more products the more employable you are. That said ... it is highly unlikely Informix will be supported because as I understand it IBM made the decision not to make the required changes to Informix to support them: Only to DB2. So if Oracle doesn't support your product ... don't blame Oracle. Talk to those lovely folks at IBM who are killing it with benign neglect. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond) Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
DA Morgan wrote: > That said ... it is highly unlikely Informix will be supported because > as I understand it IBM made the decision not to make the required > changes to Informix to support them: Only to DB2. Huh? Certainly nothing of the like has crossed my desk. Oracle has indeed made it clear what the "required" changes for DBMS are to support their "open" Fusion applications (as contrasted by the "proprietary" SAP). Humorous bunch over at Redwood Shores.... Care to share what we allegedly have agreed to? > So if Oracle doesn't support your product ... don't blame Oracle. Talk > to those lovely folks at IBM who are killing it with benign neglect. Gee, I recall some folks from Peoplesoft upstairs...haven't seen them in ages.. wonder where they went... We did a lot of work with Peoplesoft and Siebel BEFORE the acquisition. Certainly we didn't kick them out.... Oracle has yet to hone their strategy in the app space in a multi DBMS vendor environment. Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab
Serge, You should know better. Oracle does not understand multi DBMS environment. Remember there, can be only one. Oracle 7 or Oracle 8 or Oracle 9 or Oracle 10 and none of them work with the other. (ok, I am VERY slightly exaggerating). That we Informix types can still run Informer 1.0 code against an Informix v10 database is anathema to them - I mean how else can they charge huge consulting fees if you don't have to change your code every time the database version rolls? How would they support those thousands of consultants? j. -----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org]On Behalf Of Serge Rielau Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 5:16 PM To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: Migrating to Oracle <sigh> DA Morgan wrote: > That said ... it is highly unlikely Informix will be supported because > as I understand it IBM made the decision not to make the required > changes to Informix to support them: Only to DB2. Huh? Certainly nothing of the like has crossed my desk. Oracle has indeed made it clear what the "required" changes for DBMS are to support their "open" Fusion applications (as contrasted by the "proprietary" SAP). Humorous bunch over at Redwood Shores.... Care to share what we allegedly have agreed to? > So if Oracle doesn't support your product ... don't blame Oracle. Talk > to those lovely folks at IBM who are killing it with benign neglect. Gee, I recall some folks from Peoplesoft upstairs...haven't seen them in ages.. wonder where they went... We did a lot of work with Peoplesoft and Siebel BEFORE the acquisition. Certainly we didn't kick them out.... Oracle has yet to hone their strategy in the app space in a multi DBMS vendor environment. Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab _______________________________________________ Informix-list mailing list Informix-list@iiug.org http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
Serge, You should know better. Oracle does not understand multi DBMS environment. Remember there, can be only one. Oracle 7 or Oracle 8 or Oracle 9 or Oracle 10 and none of them work with the other. (ok, I am VERY slightly exaggerating). That we Informix types can still run Informer 1.0 code against an Informix v10 database is anathema to them - I mean how else can they charge huge consulting fees if you don't have to change your code every time the database version rolls? How would they support those thousands of consultants? j. -----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org]On Behalf Of Serge Rielau Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 5:16 PM To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: Migrating to Oracle <sigh> DA Morgan wrote: > That said ... it is highly unlikely Informix will be supported because > as I understand it IBM made the decision not to make the required > changes to Informix to support them: Only to DB2. Huh? Certainly nothing of the like has crossed my desk. Oracle has indeed made it clear what the "required" changes for DBMS are to support their "open" Fusion applications (as contrasted by the "proprietary" SAP). Humorous bunch over at Redwood Shores.... Care to share what we allegedly have agreed to? > So if Oracle doesn't support your product ... don't blame Oracle. Talk > to those lovely folks at IBM who are killing it with benign neglect. Gee, I recall some folks from Peoplesoft upstairs...haven't seen them in ages.. wonder where they went... We did a lot of work with Peoplesoft and Siebel BEFORE the acquisition. Certainly we didn't kick them out.... Oracle has yet to hone their strategy in the app space in a multi DBMS vendor environment. Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab _______________________________________________ Informix-list mailing list Informix-list@iiug.org http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
Serge Rielau wrote: > DA Morgan wrote: >> That said ... it is highly unlikely Informix will be supported because >> as I understand it IBM made the decision not to make the required >> changes to Informix to support them: Only to DB2. > Huh? Certainly nothing of the like has crossed my desk. Which part of your official cv is not accurate? (http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/dm-0602rielau) As I understand it, and please correct me if I am worng on this, members of the DB2 Solutions Development Team do not normally engage in discussions with Oracle about Informix. Actually as I understand it you are not involved in discussions between IBM and Oracle on anything. As I see it you are part of the problem in that you are one of those whose vested interest is to compete against Informix. -- Daniel A. Morgan
> Actually as I understand > it you are not involved in discussions between IBM and Oracle on anything. Blessed be your understanding for all its worth. Gone fishin'? > As I see it you are part of the problem in that you are one of those > whose vested interest is to compete against Informix. IBM pays me the same whether I work on IDS or DB2. In your words: I have no fear for my mortgage payments either way. Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab
Serge Rielau wrote: >> Actually as I understand >> it you are not involved in discussions between IBM and Oracle on >> anything. > Blessed be your understanding for all its worth. > Gone fishin'? > >> As I see it you are part of the problem in that you are one of those >> whose vested interest is to compete against Informix. > IBM pays me the same whether I work on IDS or DB2. In your words: I have > no fear for my mortgage payments either way. > > Cheers > Serge Likely they would ... if you did ... but as I understand it ... you don't. Why don't we have a member of the Informix team here representing IBM rather than a member of the DB2 team? -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
DA Morgan wrote: >> IBM pays me the same whether I work on IDS or DB2. In your words: I have no fear for my mortgage payments either way. >> >> Cheers >> Serge > > Why don't we have a member of the Informix team here representing > IBM rather than a member of the DB2 team? Generally, once there have been more than 5 entries in a chain, then most of us assume that the original question has been replied to, so we can ignore the rest of the postings. But what Serge said is true. When I do work on the DB2 side, I still get paid, just as I do when I do work on the Informix side. M.P.
Daniel, I guess this means that you've lost your argument. When you attack the messenger and not the message, it means that you can no longer debate the issue. Note: When we poke fun of you at your expense, its not that we can't defend our position in any hypothetical argument, but that welll... you're just an easy target. ;-) With respect to Serge's position, what he does on his own time and is within his employment agreement, is ok. With resepct to your position about Oracle... Nope. They will support IDS for the time being. Why? Because their customers (meaning peoplesoft) are on IDS and that they want to stay on IDS. As I mentioned before, if they were to stop supporting IDS and there are customers that wish to remain on IDS, then they will most likely be sued. With respect to Serge's point, Oracle made a decision a long time ago to support a single platform. Why? because it was cheaper to maintain a common platform. Informix was heading down this road with their project Arrowhead. The difference between IBM and Oracle is that IBM acquired a second platform which frankly is better than their bastardized mainframe platform. (But hey! I'm an IDS bigot talking to an IDS crowd. ;-) The smartest thing that IBM has done is to cross pollenate ?sp? both platforms such that both platforms will excel. So why don't you give it a rest on this topic? >From: DA Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org> >Serge Rielau wrote: > > DA Morgan wrote: > >> That said ... it is highly unlikely Informix will be supported because > >> as I understand it IBM made the decision not to make the required > >> changes to Informix to support them: Only to DB2. > > Huh? Certainly nothing of the like has crossed my desk. > >Which part of your official cv is not accurate? >(http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/dm-0602rielau) > >As I understand it, and please correct me if I am worng on this, >members of the DB2 Solutions Development Team do not normally engage >in discussions with Oracle about Informix. Actually as I understand >it you are not involved in discussions between IBM and Oracle on >anything. > >As I see it you are part of the problem in that you are one of those >whose vested interest is to compete against Informix. >-- >Daniel A. Morgan >_______________________________________________ >Informix-list mailing list >Informix-list@iiug.org >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list _________________________________________________________________ Don't miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/
> >Why don't we have a member of the Informix team here representing >IBM rather than a member of the DB2 team? >-- >Daniel A. Morgan >University of Washington >damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond) >_______________________________________________ Daniel, Isn't that quite obvious? Well, ok.. Maybe I'll spell this out to you. There's a couple of rumors floating around. You can pick which one you think is true and run with it. 1) Serge drank the IDS coolaid and has come to his senses that IDS really is a better designed RDBMS platform. 2) They drew straws to see who got the "pleasure" of responding to you. Serge "lost". ;-) 3) Serge is back to his "old job" of working on DB2 and he's bored, so he needs a distraction. 4) Serge is in Toronto, and well we won't talk about the BlueJays. ;-) 5) All or none of the above. _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine's 2007 editors' choice for best Web mail'award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > >> >> Why don't we have a member of the Informix team here representing >> IBM rather than a member of the DB2 team? >> -- >> Daniel A. Morgan >> University of Washington >> damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond) >> _______________________________________________ > > Daniel, > > Isn't that quite obvious? > Well, ok.. Maybe I'll spell this out to you. > There's a couple of rumors floating around. You can pick which one you > think is true and run with it. > > 1) Serge drank the IDS coolaid and has come to his senses that IDS > really is a better designed RDBMS platform. I wish that were true, but in spite of what I hear about him being a rather decent fellow, if he does so he'll be taken to The Don. > 2) They drew straws to see who got the "pleasure" of responding to you. > Serge "lost". ;-) Far more likely. Only the loser, after a vigorous protest, could possibly draw that most unpleasant assignment. > 3) Serge is back to his "old job" of working on DB2 and he's bored, so > he needs a distraction. Maybe he could take on the task of producing a single definition for the number of bytes in a column_name. > 4) Serge is in Toronto, and well we won't talk about the BlueJays. ;-) Hey they'll win something someday. I'm just not sure what. > 5) All or none of the above. I vote Yes. <g> -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > Daniel, > > I guess this means that you've lost your argument. > When you attack the messenger and not the message, it means that you can > no longer debate the issue. When I looked at the topic I saw that I was in comp.databases.informix. When I looked at the subject I saw "Oracle." When I read a message I expect it to have a message. Maybe it is just me but I don't think "Senior Software Developers," no matter how senior are involved in corporate marketing decisions with respect to such important matters: Not even when they involve the team on which the person is working. The messanger is a decent guy I wasn't attacking him. Rather the assumption that because he is an IBM employee he speaks for management, or marketing, or a team on which he doesn't work. -- Daniel A. Morgan