Re: Informix beats Oracle
Not a technical support thread but an Informix-vs-Oracle flame war. The dispute is whether criticism of Oracle is valid when based on Oracle 9i, which Morgan calls out-of-support, versus Gumby's point that his client is still on 9 and that upgrading Oracle carries real cost and pain, plus complaints about Oracle support handling of bugs. Others chip in on market share, support quality in general, and a side joke about the word "desupport". No technical problem is posed and no resolution is reached.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > Wow. > Daniel seems to want to change the issue. > > Daniel, my client is using 9. > When they go to either 10 or 11, then I'll go to 10 or 11. No attempt to change the subject. Your customer could be using version 3.0 for all I care. My point is you are rendering an opinion about a product based on knowledge of a version so old it is in desupport. Would it make sense to comment on Informix based on an obsolete version and extend that to apply to Cheetah? Of course not. PS: You might want to learn 10 and 11 in advance of your client's need. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
>From: DA Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org> > > Daniel, my client is using 9. > > When they go to either 10 or 11, then I'll go to 10 or 11. > >No attempt to change the subject. Your customer could be using >version 3.0 for all I care. My point is you are rendering an >opinion about a product based on knowledge of a version so old >it is in desupport. > >Would it make sense to comment on Informix based on an obsolete >version and extend that to apply to Cheetah? Of course not. > >PS: You might want to learn 10 and 11 in advance of your client's >need. Danny boy, Oracle 11 isnt due to be released until next month. So here we have it from the mouth of an oracle shill. If you want to run Oracle, you have to run the latest release, else the prior release is out of support. My client is on 9 and is looking at moving either to 10 or 11 next year. So running 9 is so out of date? GET REAL! Remember that there is a price/pain for moving to a newer release. At least with Oracle... _________________________________________________________________ Don't miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/
Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > > >> From: DA Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org> > >> > Daniel, my client is using 9. >> > When they go to either 10 or 11, then I'll go to 10 or 11. >> >> No attempt to change the subject. Your customer could be using >> version 3.0 for all I care. My point is you are rendering an >> opinion about a product based on knowledge of a version so old >> it is in desupport. >> >> Would it make sense to comment on Informix based on an obsolete >> version and extend that to apply to Cheetah? Of course not. >> >> PS: You might want to learn 10 and 11 in advance of your client's >> need. > > Danny boy, > > Oracle 11 isnt due to be released until next month. > > So here we have it from the mouth of an oracle shill. > If you want to run Oracle, you have to run the latest release, else the > prior release is out of support. > > My client is on 9 and is looking at moving either to 10 or 11 next year. > So running 9 is so out of date? GET REAL! > > > Remember that there is a price/pain for moving to a newer release. At > least with Oracle... > Have you tried UPDATE STATISTICS?
>From: Tool <tool@thetool.com> >Have you tried UPDATE STATISTICS? > Well yes, but the darn Oracle server says! "Whatz Dat?". The point that Danny is trying to make is that we don't "know" oracle because we're not using the latest and greatest release aka 10g. 11i isn't due out for a month and frankly, I wouldn't want to be on the latest version of Oracle and then have to deal with their support idjits who first try to deny that its a bug, and then try to tell you that its not a severity 1. (Oh yes Daniel we've had such lovely experience with Oracle.) But again, lets get way back on track. Informix beats Oracle because its a better designed engine. With Oracle things are "bolted" on. And you are forced to live with bad design decisions. Larry may be a genius at marketing, but he's a piss poor engineer. _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > > >> From: Tool <tool@thetool.com> > >> Have you tried UPDATE STATISTICS? >> > > Well yes, but the darn Oracle server says! "Whatz Dat?". > > The point that Danny is trying to make is that we don't "know" oracle > because we're not using the latest and greatest release aka 10g. 11i > isn't due out for a month and frankly, I wouldn't want to be on the > latest version of Oracle and then have to deal with their support idjits > who first try to deny that its a bug, and then try to tell you that its > not a severity 1. > (Oh yes Daniel we've had such lovely experience with Oracle.) > > > But again, lets get way back on track. Informix beats Oracle because its > a better designed engine. With Oracle things are "bolted" on. And you > are forced to live with bad design decisions. > Informix may be better but only 3% of the market cares, which is about where it was before it died. > Larry may be a genius at marketing, but he's a piss poor engineer. > Which is exactly the point. -- My new sig is a work-in-progress but I feel that maybe it can drive a viral marketing message courtesy of Google...It'll take some time but we all know the web can get the message out there faster than IBM. I think of it as a viral, mini-wiki. :-) informix ( in FOR mix ) American English. A combination of "inform" and Unix. Originally a software product running primarily on UNIX platforms, widely available on UNIX, Linux, and Windows computer platforms. 1. Database software typically chosen when choosing database products that don't have a marketing program. Compares favorably with other database engines such as Oracle, but at a fraction of the cost. 2. A collection of cool, highly advanced database technologies suitable for large and small data-driven applications for Java and Web applications. Can offer more choices for complex architectures than any other database engine. 3. Easy to use, easy to admin database engine for large and small businesses and applications, requiring very little data base administration or attendance. Ideal for vertical applications requiring high availability. 4. Consistently high uptime database engine requiring little to no downtime. 5. A database engine capable of managing data at very high speeds and capacity but available at a fraction of the cost of other database engines in the same class. 6. One of the most efficient database engines used in business that delivers multiples of speed of performance of competing database products such as Oracle, at a fraction of the cost of those competing products. 7. Extremely flexible database engine with more capabilities than Oracle and other high-end database engines, but without the high cost typically associated with high-end database engines. -- Informix Dynamic Server Database Engine -- Proven Faster. Proven Better. -- -- http://www.informix.com
Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > The point that Danny is trying to make is that we don't "know" oracle > because we're not using the latest and greatest release aka 10g. 11i > isn't due out for a month and frankly, I wouldn't want to be on the > latest version of Oracle and then have to deal with their support idjits > who first try to deny that its a bug, and then try to tell you that its > not a severity 1. > (Oh yes Daniel we've had such lovely experience with Oracle.) > This is completely off-topic. but we (at least the ones working on software providers) should all be very aware of these kind of situations... It's not only Oracle... I prefer to think that the internal support initiatives I see in the Informix community will really make a difference... I find it more and more amazing that software companies continue to differentiate closed source from open source based on the support they offer to customers... Too many times I've seen so poor support quality that I find it odd that this idea still sells... This is one of my paranoid ideas... I keep repeating this kind of messages and as always I want to point that most of the times the fault does not lie on the people but on how organizations are managed/oriented... Regards, -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...
"DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message news:1182438452.340120@bubbleator.drizzle.com... > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: >> >> Wow. >> Daniel seems to want to change the issue. >> >> Daniel, my client is using 9. >> When they go to either 10 or 11, then I'll go to 10 or 11. > > No attempt to change the subject. Your customer could be using > version 3.0 for all I care. My point is you are rendering an > opinion about a product based on knowledge of a version so old > it is in desupport. Daniel, I realise that you are probably American. But even so, surely you can't possibly seriously try to use a phrase like "in desupport" without some sense of shame for what you're doing to my beautiful language ... ?
Captain Pedantic wrote: > "DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message > news:1182438452.340120@bubbleator.drizzle.com... >> Ian Michael Gumby wrote: >>> Wow. >>> Daniel seems to want to change the issue. >>> >>> Daniel, my client is using 9. >>> When they go to either 10 or 11, then I'll go to 10 or 11. >> No attempt to change the subject. Your customer could be using >> version 3.0 for all I care. My point is you are rendering an >> opinion about a product based on knowledge of a version so old >> it is in desupport. > > Daniel, I realise that you are probably American. But even so, surely you > can't possibly seriously try to use a phrase like "in desupport" without > some sense of shame for what you're doing to my beautiful language ... ? *your* beautiful language? next thing you know he's patented it, asks for license fees, and there goes free speech... -- Ciao, Marco ______________________________________________________________________________ Marco Greco /UK /IBM Standard disclaimers apply! Structured Query Scripting Language http://www.4glworks.com/sqsl.htm 4glworks http://www.4glworks.com Informix on Linux http://www.4glworks.com/ifmxlinux.htm
Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > Oracle 11 isnt due to be released until next month. No it isn't. The marketing campaign starts in July. The software will be released when the software is ready to be released. They are not necessarily the same date. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond) Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
Captain Pedantic wrote: > Daniel, I realise that you are probably American. But even so, surely you > can't possibly seriously try to use a phrase like "in desupport" without > some sense of shame for what you're doing to my beautiful language ... ? Without much pride, these days, I must acknowledge that you are correct. But that lovely word is the official verbiage. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond) Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
"DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message news:1182469540.896327@bubbleator.drizzle.com... > Captain Pedantic wrote: > >> Daniel, I realise that you are probably American. But even so, surely >> you can't possibly seriously try to use a phrase like "in desupport" >> without some sense of shame for what you're doing to my beautiful >> language ... ? > > Without much pride, these days, I must acknowledge that you are correct. > But that lovely word is the official verbiage. Official? You mean, Oracle uses it? Last time I visited the United States on an American airline - probably was American Airlines - as the plane stopped at the terminal gate we were told "You will be de-planed momentarily". Huh? Aside from the idea of de-planed, whose meaning I was able to guess at, why would they want to de-plane me momentarily? I wanted to be "de-planed" permanently ...
Captain Pedantic wrote: > "DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message > news:1182469540.896327@bubbleator.drizzle.com... >> Captain Pedantic wrote: >> >>> Daniel, I realise that you are probably American. But even so, surely >>> you can't possibly seriously try to use a phrase like "in desupport" >>> without some sense of shame for what you're doing to my beautiful >>> language ... ? >> Without much pride, these days, I must acknowledge that you are correct. >> But that lovely word is the official verbiage. > > Official? You mean, Oracle uses it? > > Last time I visited the United States on an American airline - probably was > American Airlines - as the plane stopped at the terminal gate we were told > "You will be de-planed momentarily". Huh? Aside from the idea of > de-planed, whose meaning I was able to guess at, why would they want to > de-plane me momentarily? I wanted to be "de-planed" permanently ... http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/jdev/collateral/others/desupport10g.html Bet now you're filled with envy. <g> -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)