RE: Just a little tease on how to place proper product spin.

Are you billing your customer at the same time you're typing all this today Gumby? --- Ian Michael Gumby <im_gumby@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Gee! > > Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this > morning? > > The purpose of the exercise is to think. > Sure its easy to poke fun of the marketing > department. Most people here have never done sales. > > The key here is how do you answer a question that > doesn't do the following: > > 1) Play one product against another. > 2) Open yourself up to *more* questions that *you* > *dont* want to address. > 3) Detract from the message that you want to > project. > I've been accused of ripping on IDS management and > not being positive. > Yet here's a positive post and the only two > responses have been you, being negative, and Mark > Townsend a developer and employee of Oracle who > would rather spend time here than actually work on > making Oracle a better product. It works, but you > have to throw lots of hardware to make it work well > enough. (And don't get me started on some of the > "certified" Oracle DBAs walking around. IDS may be > simpler, but I'd take an IDS certified DBA over an > Oracle certified DBA.) > > So when I try to get those who also criticize IDS > marketing and sales management to try and think in a > more creative and positive way, they don't want to > be bothered. > > Product management doesn't really grok the sales > mentality. I've told them countless times that you > need to change the PBCs of certain individuals to > make real change happen. They haven't done that. > Why? Because they don't understand what motivates > the S&D team. Or their management. Hint: PBCs > indirectly affect their pay. > > The point of the "spin" game is an effort to get > individuals to modify how they think about a given > topic. Oracle is great at doing this while they sell > smoke and mirrors. > > The truth is... Its easier to be negative and bitch > about a problem than to solve it. > When given an opportunity to add your two cents, you > bitch. > > But hey! What do I know? > I've actually done more behind the scenes that just > bitch... ;-) > > -G > > > > > > From: indeep@indeep.com> Subject: Re: Just a > little tease on how to place proper product spin.> > Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 20:12:00 -0700> To: > informix-list@iiug.org> > Ian Michael Gumby wrote:> > > Lets play a game...> > > > We all know that IDS's > problems aren't in the product development team. > > > But in how the product is being positioned and > presented to the > > industry, their > customers,press/analysts and of course IBM's very > own > > S&D team. So lets tease Jerry and his crew > (Cathy and Bernie) and > > suggest, a much better > market position statement.> >> > Why bother.> > > > Sure we all want to say "Keep IDS in the LUW aka > "Distributed" world, > > and place DB2 on the > mainframe and AS/400 aka I series. While we know > > > that will never happen, it is still a very viable > option and one that > > IBM should consider.> > What > makes you think anyone gives a shit.> > > (And of > course, support those customers who are already on > DB2 in LUW > > world.) -- Just Kidding. IBM would > never do this. Serge would lose his > > job and be > forced to work for Oracle or Microsoft... 8-0 :-)> > > > > But lets get serious, yes, even Gumby can get > serious... ;-):> > > > I believe it was Bernie who > did the IDS "whitepaper" interview which did > > a > horrendous of product positioning.> > HEY IBM, > HERE"S A FREE CLUE. THE NEXT TIME YOU'RE ASKED THIS > QUESTION... > > CONSIDER THIS AS YOUR ANSWER...:> > > > > A: "We [IBM] believe that we're in an excellent > position because we have > > two thoroughbred > racehorses in our stable. Through the Informix > > > acquisition, we have acquired not only talented > engineers and > > developers, but also a product > that has an incredibly loyal fan base. > > That fan > base exists because IDS is an easy to maintain, > performance > > beast, well suited for embedded > solutions, OLTP solutions, and > > datamarts. > Through their acquistion of Illustra, they also have > > > extensibility that will allow them to adapt to > "web 2.0" type > > applications, along with the high > end custom solutions that some of our > > customers > need. Contrast this to DB2 whose lineage comes from > the > > Mainframe. Well suited for handling large > volumes of data and large data > > warehouses. > Products like SAP have been specifically tuned for > DB2.> > > > So when we look at the customers' needs, > we can supply an engine that > > can meet their > diverse requirements. From one end of the spectrum, > we > > have IDS. The other, DB2. Together, our > product base covers *all* of the > > customers' > needs...."> > > > Q: "What about product overlap?"> > > A: "We [IBM] believe that the overlap is actually > a good thing. Both > > products adhere to the DRDA > standard, so that our DRDA compliant tools > > will > work with either database. These databases can work > well within > > environments together and compliment > each other. No other company can do > > this. > Product overlap also gives a customer choice. If > they've started > > with IDS and they are > comfortable with IDS, they can stay with IDS. The > > > say is true of DB2. IBM is working to keep both > products in parity when > > they can. Technology is > shared between both engines. "> > > > > > -=-> > > > > I think you get the point. No bashing of either > product. Each product > > receives equal footing.> > > > > So you're saying the marketing department is > filled with cocksucking sychophants.> > > > > Now > here's the Game.> > Its your job to poke holes in > these statements.> > As you poke a hole, then find a > counter argument that defends this position.> > The > more you do this, the stronger the argument > becomes.> >> > Q: What is the sound of one hand > clapping?> > A: A Slap in the face.> > > > With > respect to the sales force... That's a different > story.> > And that is something I'd be happy to work > on with IBM. Sales critters > > speak a differnt > language. ;-)> > > > > > Sun is moving to Ubuntu. > What does that tell you? An invincible company> that > has totally lost its way. They'd never go x86, never > go Linux, never> go open source, never > open-source-java, the list goes on. Now they do all> > of the above, trying to find relevance. They can't > even give away Solaris,> nobody cares. What else do > they have? They have to buy companies because> they > lost their way.> > Soon IBM will cease to be > relevant. It's coming.> > Microsoft, invincible. Now > comes Vista, a total, gargantuan flop.> > It doesn't > take much imagination to see where things can go > when people get> arrogant and think they can't fall. > IBM will be next. It's coming, get> ready for it. > Informix went thru it once, deja vu all over again.> > > It doesn't take much imagination to see Apple's > iPhone in a little bit larger> size, as a fully > blowed out laptop. Tota