Re: flagship sunk

Serge Rielau wrote: > Ah yes.... advise from the Oracle product manager is certainly something > I would follow. Clearly you have IBM's best interest in mind Mark. > > BTW, don't you have something like business conduct guidelines in your > shop or is spreading FUD in competitive newsgroups indeed part of your > job description? > > Cheers > Serge Get a sense of humor Serge. You wouldn't want some of your posts at comp.databases.oracle.server to come back and bite you. ;-) All Mark is doing is agreeing with the regulars here at c.d.i. Hardly an outrageous position to take. And you should keep in mind that if IBM folds Oracle might not need Mark anymore so perhaps he's just trying to save his own job. ;-) -- Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

DA Morgan wrote: > > Get a sense of humor Serge. You wouldn't want some of your posts at > comp.databases.oracle.server to come back and bite you. ;-) > Well to be fair - Serge's posts on c.d.o are pretty much always on topic. I don't think he has too much in his posting history anywhere to be ashamed of.

DA Morgan wrote: > Get a sense of humor Serge. You wouldn't want some of your posts at > comp.databases.oracle.server to come back and bite you. ;-) Daniel, There are Oracle negative posts on c.d.o.server. I don't recall ever having participated in them. I either provide neutral SQL help or clarify DB2 untruths brought up by others in c.d.o.server. Mark and you are welcome to do the same and you have done so in the past. Pouring gasoline into the fire and adding innuendo (e.g. by equating a product list with IBM's IM strategy) is IMHO unethical. None of the IBMers posting here would be allowed to answer in kind to Mark's posts in c.d.o-server. It would be a clear violation of the business conduct guidelines IBM makes us sign. Mark's claim to not be in breach of his guidelines re-asserts my choice of employer. Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development DB2 UDB for Linux, Unix, Windows IBM Toronto Lab

Serge Rielau wrote: > > Pouring gasoline into the fire and adding innuendo (e.g. by equating a > product list with IBM's IM strategy) is IMHO unethical. OK. So where is the link that does outline IBM's IM strategy ? I did actually look. I looked on the home page and found nothing called Information Management. I did see a link called Software Products which took me to http://www.ibm.com/products/learn/action/learnlistview?familyId=2&ctry=us&lang=en&trac=L4 I saw the following on this page Data & Information Management Cloudscape DB2 Content Manager DB2 Document Manager DB2 UDB Data Warehouse DB2 Universal Database Express DB2 Universal Developer's Edition Informix Dynamic Server Lotus Domino Document Manager Lotus Workflow WebSphere Information Integrator Workplace Web Content Management Which is also just a product list (albeit a shorter one). There is also nothing to tell me when to use what for what. So at that stage I clicked on the software by product category link, which is how I ended up at the page I posted. Which seemed to gibe with the comments Christine had made. So it wasn't innuendo, it was a real world 'end user' experience However, on the basis I got this wrong I just went back to the home page and did a search for Information Management and found the following - http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/ I click on Database Servers and I get this http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/dbservers.html So - to paraphrase (and I am not being obtuse) DB2 is the cost effective solution Cloudscape is the small, embeddable DB (written in Java) IMS is the non-relational DB for critical apps Informix is the fast database for OTLP U2 is the somehow verticalized DB Cool. Now I understand. I know which DB I need for which purpose. And indeed the positioning on Informix is very, very good, (all kudos to Christine), albeit the overall list still a bit confusing to customers. So some constructive criticism - You do need to make this navigable from the home page however. And also paste this content on the data home page http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data, as I believe this is where most links will lead from adverts etc - And I sort of think that that is what this thread has all been about.

Mark Townsend wrote: > DA Morgan wrote: > >> >> Get a sense of humor Serge. You wouldn't want some of your posts at >> comp.databases.oracle.server to come back and bite you. ;-) >> > > Well to be fair - Serge's posts on c.d.o are pretty much always on > topic. I don't think he has too much in his posting history anywhere to > be ashamed of. Neither of you do. But he has done what you did. So the playing field looks level from here. -- Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

Mark Townsend wrote: > So some constructive criticism - You do need to make this navigable from > the home page however. Define homepage.... keep in mind that to IBM even Software group is a measily 16B+$ business. Start with "Learn about: Software" (left side) http://www.ibm.com/products/learn/action/learnlistview?familyId=2&ctry=us&lang=en&trac=L4 "Software overview" (still left side) http://www.ibm.com/software/ There you get a sniff of SOA or you can follow the green teletubby on the right :-) (Sorry still says DB2 Information Management): http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/ Now this, I would expect is what passes as a homepage. >And also paste this content on the data home page > http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data, as I believe this is where most > links will lead from adverts etc - And I sort of think that that is what > this thread has all been about. Not sure where you looked: http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/ Click on "Information on Demand" (left top-ish): http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/ondemandbusiness/ From there go wild.. some random picks: http://www-306.ibm.com/software/sw-events/webcast/V450249I56906X01.html or http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/ondemandbusiness/soa.html Some pretty pictures here :-) ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/data/pubs/tech-consult/forrester.pdf Quote from Forester above: "E X E C U T I V E SUMMARY Enterprises deal with the growing complexities of managing information every day. In response, software vendors offer a variety of technologies to help firms meet the challenges of managing information and delivering it efficiently to applications, business processes, and information workers. No one supplier has the product portfolio to offer a completely holistic information management solution that spans structured and unstructured data, but IBM comes very close and is far ahead of other vendors. The company's Information On Demand (IOD) strategy aims high and gets the message right. But at the same time, the strategy brushes aside product gaps and calls into question IBM's ability to execute, given its corporate culture, and the structure and compensation model of its sales team. IBM has a sweeping vision, and almost all the pieces for delivering information as a service, but needs to coax divisions into collaborating and incent its sales force to start selling more than a mere laundry list of products." Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development DB2 UDB for Linux, Unix, Windows IBM Toronto Lab

Serge Rielau said: > > Mark's claim to not be in breach of his guidelines re-asserts my choice > of employer. Mmm. Imagine what it must be like to have an employer that actually believes in pushing their products over their competitors. Disgusting. -- Bye now, Obnoxio "C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien ' dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule" - Coluche did i mention i like nulls? heck, i even go so far as to say that all columns in a table except the primary key could/should be nullable. this has certain advantages, for example, if you need to insert a child record and you don't have a parent row for it, just do an insert into the parent table with the primary key value (everything else null), and voila, relational integrity is preserved. but this is, admittedly, a bit controversial among modellers. --r937, dbforums.com