No forced migrations to DB2 - HORSE HOCKEY!

I apologize in advance for this rant, but I hope IBM is monitoring this discussion list. First off, I attended the InfoBahn presentation in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago. Alan Grady, VP of DataManagement Worldwide Services and Support was the major presenter. He stressed the fact the IBM was not forcing migrations from Informix to DB2. It was stressed by several attendees including my self, that while IBM was not directly forcing these migrations, they were indirectly accomplishing the same by lack of 3rd Party Vendor support ie, Peoplesoft, BAAN, etc. Alan was also not very convincing as well, since he slipped several times and mentioned that there was a DB2 migration path for these type applications. I'd like to now congratulate IBM as our company is now seriously considering Oracle as a viable option for new projects. Whereas we have been almost exclusively Informix and DB2/UDB for Open Systems, IBM through it licensing policy has PO'd some people in my organization. What has pissed them off? How about a licensing strategy that basically places Informix licenses at almost twice the cost of DB2 licenses. It's not that were against DB2. It's just that we have applications currently running on Informix that would be much easier to support on Informix. For obvious reasons I can't go into our licensing agreements with IBM. How is my company supposed to view this? We are told we are not being forced into DB2. But the pricing makes it almost impossible not to migrate. With such mixed signals it's no wonder our management is so upset with IBM. Anyone know where I can get some good Oracle courses?

Informix Dynamic Server 7 and Informix Dynamic Server 9 are built on an 'everything in the server' model. This is quite different from the DB2 model as well as some competitive brands. With IDS 7 and IDS 9, desirable features such as extensibility and fragmentation are delivered embedded in the server. The features and functions delivered embedded in the product warrant a higher price than that of DB2. Please note that IBM is selling IDS licenses at considerably lower prices than were offered by Informix in their September 28, 1999 announcement of IDS 9 ($58,000/cpu $2,100/CS). We are working diligently with our partners to encourage them to support IDS 9. You mention Baan, however, they do support both IDS 7 and IDS 9 and are expected to certify IDS 9.4 in the near future. PeopleSoft also plans to continue support of IDS, although they have chosen not to enable their full suite for IDS. A move to a competitor's platform would be a very costly decision. IDS typically requires 1/3 or less DBA resources to manage and IBM consistently rates higher customer satisfaction surveys than our competitors. After factoring in the features not included in competitors prices, IDS is also cheaper than competitive platforms. If you'd like more information on the advantages of IDS, please feel free to contact me. Christine Normile I/T Specialist, Informix Solutions Data Management Worldwide Sales Support Telephone: 877-252-5399 T/L 273-0981 Mobile: 210-365-5073 |---------+----------------------------> | | bleb@harland.net | | | Sent by: | | | forum.subscriber@| | | iiug.org | | | | | | | | | 04/29/2003 01:31 | | | PM | |---------+----------------------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------| | | | To: ids@iiug.org | | cc: | | Subject: No forced migrations to DB2 - HORSE HOCKEY! [1036] | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------| I apologize in advance for this rant, but I hope IBM is monitoring this discussion list. First off, I attended the InfoBahn presentation in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago. Alan Grady, VP of DataManagement Worldwide Services and Support was the major presenter. He stressed the fact the IBM was not forcing migrations from Informix to DB2. It was stressed by several attendees including my self, that while IBM was not directly forcing these migrations, they were indirectly accomplishing the same by lack of 3rd Party Vendor support ie, Peoplesoft, BAAN, etc. Alan was also not very convincing as well, since he slipped several times and mentioned that there was a DB2 migration path for these type applications. I'd like to now congratulate IBM as our company is now seriously considering Oracle as a viable option for new projects. Whereas we have been almost exclusively Informix and DB2/UDB for Open Systems, IBM through it licensing policy has PO'd some people in my organization. What has pissed them off? How about a licensing strategy that basically places Informix licenses at almost twice the cost of DB2 licenses. It's not that were against DB2. It's just that we have applications currently running on Informix that would be much easier to support on Informix. For obvious reasons I can't go into our licensing agreements with IBM. How is my company supposed to view this? We are told we are not being forced into DB2. But the pricing makes it almost impossible not to migrate. With such mixed signals it's no wonder our management is so upset with IBM. Anyone know where I can get some good Oracle courses?

Bleb: Several weeks ago, I put on the classics the simple question: Do you think Informix is a dead end? I got several responses... My favorite: Obnoxio the Clown: "...From a technical/product development point of view, Informix has a better future than before, but the marketing still tosses salad." John Thomas hit the nail on the head with his comments: "Just what do you mean by "long term"... Long term could be 5 to 10 years.................. That's exactly the point, for our organization at least. Our system development and deployment cycles (our new system currently under development is over 1.6 million lines of Java) last at least 2-3 years, often up to 5 years. (Data conversion alone took us over a year, but we radically changed the structure of the database at the same time) We need something we know is going to be there for the long haul (10 yrs + ) Anybody else want to wade in? Rob -----Original Message----- From: bleb@harland.net [mailto:bleb@harland.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:32 PM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: No forced migrations to DB2 - HORSE HOCKEY! [1036] I apologize in advance for this rant, but I hope IBM is monitoring this discussion list. First off, I attended the InfoBahn presentation in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago. Alan Grady, VP of DataManagement Worldwide Services and Support was the major presenter. He stressed the fact the IBM was not forcing migrations from Informix to DB2. It was stressed by several attendees including my self, that while IBM was not directly forcing these migrations, they were indirectly accomplishing the same by lack of 3rd Party Vendor support ie, Peoplesoft, BAAN, etc. Alan was also not very convincing as well, since he slipped several times and mentioned that there was a DB2 migration path for these type applications. I'd like to now congratulate IBM as our company is now seriously considering Oracle as a viable option for new projects. Whereas we have been almost exclusively Informix and DB2/UDB for Open Systems, IBM through it licensing policy has PO'd some people in my organization. What has pissed them off? How about a licensing strategy that basically places Informix licenses at almost twice the cost of DB2 licenses. It's not that were against DB2. It's just that we have applications currently running on Informix that would be much easier to support on Informix. For obvious reasons I can't go into our licensing agreements with IBM. How is my company supposed to view this? We are told we are not being forced into DB2. But the pricing makes it almost impossible not to migrate. With such mixed signals it's no wonder our management is so upset with IBM. Anyone know where I can get some good Oracle courses?

http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612118037 -- Bye now, Obnoxio "C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien à dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule" - Coluche From: bleb@harland.net > >I apologize in advance for this rant, but I hope IBM is monitoring this >discussion list. > >First off, I attended the InfoBahn presentation in Atlanta a couple of >weeks ago. Alan Grady, VP of DataManagement Worldwide Services and Support >was the major presenter. He stressed the fact the IBM was not forcing >migrations from Informix to DB2. It was stressed by several attendees >including my self, that while IBM was not directly forcing these >migrations, they were indirectly accomplishing the same by lack of 3rd >Party Vendor support ie, Peoplesoft, BAAN, etc. Alan was also not very >convincing as well, since he slipped several times and mentioned that there >was a DB2 migration path for these type applications. > >I'd like to now congratulate IBM as our company is now seriously >considering Oracle as a viable option for new projects. Whereas we have >been almost exclusively Informix and DB2/UDB for Open Systems, IBM through >it licensing policy has PO'd some people in my organization. What has >pissed them off? How about a licensing strategy that basically places >Informix licenses at almost twice the cost of DB2 licenses. > >It's not that were against DB2. It's just that we have applications >currently running on Informix that would be much easier to support on >Informix. For obvious reasons I can't go into our licensing agreements >with IBM. > >How is my company supposed to view this? We are told we are not being >forced into DB2. But the pricing makes it almost impossible not to >migrate. With such mixed signals it's no wonder our management is so upset >with IBM. > >Anyone know where I can get some good Oracle courses? > > _________________________________________________________________ Surf together with new Shared Browsing http://join.msn.com/?page=features/browse&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=74&DI=1059

I attended the DC infobahn last week. Our major presenter was Don Top. He also mentioned the DB2 migration path and little or no future for informix beyond 2006. Release schedule: 9.50 released sometime between 2004 - 2005 9.60 being released 2006. After all the mention of "integrating the good things from informix" into DB2 he went on to present the "DB2 integrator" product. ugh! If DB2 is their flagship platform then why do they need to intergrate informix into it??? Did he say "we hope sometime in the future you can just click a button and move your informix into DB2!!" ? I strongly believe that the main intention of the "roadshow" is for IBM to get a feeling on who will stick around once informix is gone. Offering the "gold program" just in case you want to "migrate to db2".... surely this is the evidence. During our "Q" and "A" session I asked about publishing benchmarks for ids 9.40. He stated, somewhat defensively, that IBM will not publish benchmarks for IDS because of the expense but will continue to publish benchmarks for DB2.....yaada yaada yaada... I'm sure the real reason is that IBM does not want to show that their "flagship" database does not perform as well as their "lower brand". To quote another attendee and friend.....Don has drank the blue kool-aid. He's an IBM'er now. "Konikoff, R...." To: ids@iiug.org <konikoffr@BRAGG cc: .ARMY.MIL> Subject: RE: No forced migrations to DB2 - HORSE HOCKEY! [1040] Sent by: forum.subscriber @iiug.org 04/29/03 04:48 PM Bleb: Several weeks ago, I put on the classics the simple question: Do you think Informix is a dead end? I got several responses... My favorite: Obnoxio the Clown: "...From a technical/product development point of view, Informix has a better future than before, but the marketing still tosses salad." John Thomas hit the nail on the head with his comments: "Just what do you mean by "long term"... Long term could be 5 to 10 years.................. That's exactly the point, for our organization at least. Our system development and deployment cycles (our new system currently under development is over 1.6 million lines of Java) last at least 2-3 years, often up to 5 years. (Data conversion alone took us over a year, but we radically changed the structure of the database at the same time) We need something we know is going to be there for the long haul (10 yrs + ) Anybody else want to wade in? Rob -----Original Message----- From: bleb@harland.net [mailto:bleb@harland.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:32 PM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: No forced migrations to DB2 - HORSE HOCKEY! [1036] I apologize in advance for this rant, but I hope IBM is monitoring this discussion list. First off, I attended the InfoBahn presentation in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago. Alan Grady, VP of DataManagement Worldwide Services and Support was the major presenter. He stressed the fact the IBM was not forcing migrations from Informix to DB2. It was stressed by several attendees including my self, that while IBM was not directly forcing these migrations, they were indirectly accomplishing the same by lack of 3rd Party Vendor support ie, Peoplesoft, BAAN, etc. Alan was also not very convincing as well, since he slipped several times and mentioned that there was a DB2 migration path for these type applications. I'd like to now congratulate IBM as our company is now seriously considering Oracle as a viable option for new projects. Whereas we have been almost exclusively Informix and DB2/UDB for Open Systems, IBM through it licensing policy has PO'd some people in my organization. What has pissed them off? How about a licensing strategy that basically places Informix licenses at almost twice the cost of DB2 licenses. It's not that were against DB2. It's just that we have applications currently running on Informix that would be much easier to support on Informix. For obvious reasons I can't go into our licensing agreements with IBM. How is my company supposed to view this? We are told we are not being forced into DB2. But the pricing makes it almost impossible not to migrate. With such mixed signals it's no wonder our management is so upset with IBM. Anyone know where I can get some good Oracle courses?

In Atlanta Infobahn, they mention 5 to 10 years and Carlton Doe reinforced, that many features of Informix with be in one common database: DB2 Arrowhead Carl W Berner - Team Lead Informix/Oracle DBA IBM Global Services - Serving Lucent Technologies Work : (770) 750 5225 Pager: 1-800-759-8888 Pin#1615039 Email: cberner@lucent.com -----Original Message----- From: DarrenJacob.... [mailto:DarrenJacobs@carmax.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:08 AM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: RE: No forced migrations to DB2 - HORSE HOCKEY! [1045] I attended the DC infobahn last week. Our major presenter was Don Top. He also mentioned the DB2 migration path and little or no future for informix beyond 2006. Release schedule: 9.50 released sometime between 2004 - 2005 9.60 being released 2006. After all the mention of "integrating the good things from informix" into DB2 he went on to present the "DB2 integrator" product. ugh! If DB2 is their flagship platform then why do they need to intergrate informix into it??? Did he say "we hope sometime in the future you can just click a button and move your informix into DB2!!" ? I strongly believe that the main intention of the "roadshow" is for IBM to get a feeling on who will stick around once informix is gone. Offering the "gold program" just in case you want to "migrate to db2".... surely this is the evidence. During our "Q" and "A" session I asked about publishing benchmarks for ids 9.40. He stated, somewhat defensively, that IBM will not publish benchmarks for IDS because of the expense but will continue to publish benchmarks for DB2.....yaada yaada yaada... I'm sure the real reason is that IBM does not want to show that their "flagship" database does not perform as well as their "lower brand". To quote another attendee and friend.....Don has drank the blue kool-aid. He's an IBM'er now. "Konikoff, R...." To: ids@iiug.org <konikoffr@BRAGG cc: .ARMY.MIL> Subject: RE: No forced migrations to DB2 - HORSE HOCKEY! [1040] Sent by: forum.subscriber @iiug.org 04/29/03 04:48 PM Bleb: Several weeks ago, I put on the classics the simple question: Do you think Informix is a dead end? I got several responses... My favorite: Obnoxio the Clown: "...From a technical/product development point of view, Informix has a better future than before, but the marketing still tosses salad." John Thomas hit the nail on the head with his comments: "Just what do you mean by "long term"... Long term could be 5 to 10 years.................. That's exactly the point, for our organization at least. Our system development and deployment cycles (our new system currently under development is over 1.6 million lines of Java) last at least 2-3 years, often up to 5 years. (Data conversion alone took us over a year, but we radically changed the structure of the database at the same time) We need something we know is going to be there for the long haul (10 yrs + ) Anybody else want to wade in? Rob -----Original Message----- From: bleb@harland.net [mailto:bleb@harland.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:32 PM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: No forced migrations to DB2 - HORSE HOCKEY! [1036] I apologize in advance for this rant, but I hope IBM is monitoring this discussion list. First off, I attended the InfoBahn presentation in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago. Alan Grady, VP of DataManagement Worldwide Services and Support was the major presenter. He stressed the fact the IBM was not forcing migrations from Informix to DB2. It was stressed by several attendees including my self, that while IBM was not directly forcing these migrations, they were indirectly accomplishing the same by lack of 3rd Party Vendor support ie, Peoplesoft, BAAN, etc. Alan was also not very convincing as well, since he slipped several times and mentioned that there was a DB2 migration path for these type applications. I'd like to now congratulate IBM as our company is now seriously considering Oracle as a viable option for new projects. Whereas we have been almost exclusively Informix and DB2/UDB for Open Systems, IBM through it licensing policy has PO'd some people in my organization. What has pissed them off? How about a licensing strategy that basically places Informix licenses at almost twice the cost of DB2 licenses. It's not that were against DB2. It's just that we have applications currently running on Informix that would be much easier to support on Informix. For obvious reasons I can't go into our licensing agreements with IBM. How is my company supposed to view this? We are told we are not being forced into DB2. But the pricing makes it almost impossible not to migrate. With such mixed signals it's no wonder our management is so upset with IBM. Anyone know where I can get some good Oracle courses?

I've heard the expression "polished turd" on several UK car programs recently, can anyone explain to me what it means? -- Bye now, Obnoxio "C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien à dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule" - Coluche From: "Berner, Car...." <cberner@lucent.com> > >In Atlanta Infobahn, they mention 5 to 10 years and Carlton Doe reinforced, >that many features of Informix with be in one common database: DB2 >Arrowhead > >Carl W Berner - Team Lead Informix/Oracle DBA >IBM Global Services - Serving Lucent Technologies >Work : (770) 750 5225 >Pager: 1-800-759-8888 Pin#1615039 >Email: cberner@lucent.com > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: DarrenJacob.... [mailto:DarrenJacobs@carmax.com] > >I attended the DC infobahn last week. Our major presenter was Don Top. He >also mentioned the DB2 migration path and little or no future for informix >beyond 2006. > >Release schedule: >9.50 released sometime between 2004 - 2005 >9.60 being released 2006. > >After all the mention of "integrating the good things from informix" into >DB2 he went on to present the "DB2 integrator" product. ugh! If DB2 is >their flagship platform then why do they need to intergrate informix into >it??? Did he say "we hope sometime in the future you can just click a >button and move your informix into DB2!!" ? > >I strongly believe that the main intention of the "roadshow" is for IBM to >get a feeling on who will stick around once informix is gone. Offering the >"gold program" just in case you want to "migrate to db2".... surely this >is the evidence. > >During our "Q" and "A" session I asked about publishing benchmarks for ids >9.40. He stated, somewhat defensively, that IBM will not publish >benchmarks for IDS because of the expense but will continue to publish >benchmarks for DB2.....yaada yaada yaada... I'm sure the real reason is >that IBM does not want to show that their "flagship" database does not >perform as well as their "lower brand". > >To quote another attendee and friend.....Don has drank the blue kool-aid. >He's an IBM'er now. > > > > > > "Konikoff, > R...." To: ids@iiug.org > <konikoffr@BRAGG cc: > .ARMY.MIL> Subject: RE: No forced >migrations to DB2 - HORSE HOCKEY! [1040] > >Bleb: > >Several weeks ago, I put on the classics the simple question: > Do you think Informix is a dead end? > >I got several responses... My favorite: >Obnoxio the Clown: "...From a technical/product development point of view, >Informix has a better future than before, but the marketing still tosses >salad." > >John Thomas hit the nail on the head with his comments: >"Just what do you mean by "long term"... Long term could be 5 to 10 >years.................. >That's exactly the point, for our organization at least. Our system >development and deployment cycles (our new system currently under >development is over 1.6 million lines of Java) last at least 2-3 years, >often up to 5 years. (Data conversion alone took us over a year, but we >radically changed the structure of the database at the same time) We need >something we know is going to be there for the long haul (10 yrs + ) > >Anybody else want to wade in? > >Rob > >-----Original Message----- >From: bleb@harland.net [mailto:bleb@harland.net] > >I apologize in advance for this rant, but I hope IBM is monitoring this >discussion list. > >First off, I attended the InfoBahn presentation in Atlanta a couple of >weeks ago. Alan Grady, VP of DataManagement Worldwide Services and Support >was the major presenter. He stressed the fact the IBM was not forcing >migrations from Informix to DB2. It was stressed by several attendees >including my self, that while IBM was not directly forcing these >migrations, they were indirectly accomplishing the same by lack of 3rd >Party Vendor support ie, Peoplesoft, BAAN, etc. Alan was also not very >convincing as well, since he slipped several times and mentioned that there >was a DB2 migration path for these type applications. > >I'd like to now congratulate IBM as our company is now seriously >considering Oracle as a viable option for new projects. Whereas we have >been almost exclusively Informix and DB2/UDB for Open Systems, IBM through >it licensing policy has PO'd some people in my organization. What has >pissed them off? How about a licensing strategy that basically places >Informix licenses at almost twice the cost of DB2 licenses. > >It's not that were against DB2. It's just that we have applications >currently running on Informix that would be much easier to support on >Informix. For obvious reasons I can't go into our licensing agreements >with IBM. > >How is my company supposed to view this? We are told we are not being >forced into DB2. But the pricing makes it almost impossible not to >migrate. With such mixed signals it's no wonder our management is so upset >with IBM. > >Anyone know where I can get some good Oracle courses? _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile

There was an Infobahn in UK yesterday. Unfortunately I couldn't go, but I'd be interested to hear what was said... Earlier this year there was a 'poster', 'IBM data management vision strengthens Informix', that seemed to imply that both DB2 and IDS would in some way merge and from that would come Arrowhead in 2005. This would seem to be reasonable, take the best from both products and produce something wonderful... But of course, it all depends on the detail, what will the 'performance' be like, how easy will the migration be, etc. Also on that poster were some arrows, from which you might imply that existing products would continue after 2005. In the meantime there is uncertainty. What seems peculiar is that IBM may be striving to create something wonderful, and is sort-of open about its intentions. Oracle is sitting quiet, apparently doing nothing, and applications are moving towards it. It's a strange world! In message <200304291831.h3TIVl9p000575@ace.iiug.org>, bleb@harland.net writes >I apologize in advance for this rant, but I hope IBM is monitoring this >discussion list. > >First off, I attended the InfoBahn presentation in Atlanta a couple of >weeks ago. Alan Grady, VP of DataManagement Worldwide Services and Support >was the major presenter. He stressed the fact the IBM was not forcing >migrations from Informix to DB2. It was stressed by several attendees >including my self, that while IBM was not directly forcing these >migrations, they were indirectly accomplishing the same by lack of 3rd >Party Vendor support ie, Peoplesoft, BAAN, etc. Alan was also not very >convincing as well, since he slipped several times and mentioned that there >was a DB2 migration path for these type applications. > >I'd like to now congratulate IBM as our company is now seriously >considering Oracle as a viable option for new projects. Whereas we have >been almost exclusively Informix and DB2/UDB for Open Systems, IBM through >it licensing policy has PO'd some people in my organization. What has >pissed them off? How about a licensing strategy that basically places >Informix licenses at almost twice the cost of DB2 licenses. > >It's not that were against DB2. It's just that we have applications >currently running on Informix that would be much easier to support on >Informix. For obvious reasons I can't go into our licensing agreements >with IBM. > >How is my company supposed to view this? We are told we are not being >forced into DB2. But the pricing makes it almost impossible not to >migrate. With such mixed signals it's no wonder our management is so upset >with IBM. > >Anyone know where I can get some good Oracle courses? > > -- Andrew Lennard andy@kontron.demon.co.uk

On Thursday 01 May 2003 00:30, Andy Lennard wrote: > There was an Infobahn in UK yesterday. Unfortunately I couldn't go, but > I'd be interested to hear what was said... > > Earlier this year there was a 'poster', 'IBM data management vision > strengthens Informix', that seemed to imply that both DB2 and IDS would > in some way merge and from that would come Arrowhead in 2005. This would > seem to be reasonable, take the best from both products and produce > something wonderful... But of course, it all depends on the detail, what > will the 'performance' be like, how easy will the migration be, etc. > > Also on that poster were some arrows, from which you might imply that > existing products would continue after 2005. > Yeah. We've got that poster on the wall. I walk by it every week on my way to meetings to decide if we can afford to keep Informix. We've all noticed the vapor on the far side of the 2005 line. DT -- Dave Thacker SysAdmin, DBA, Postmaster, Odd Jobs Omni Hotels Reservation Center V:402-952-6535 F:402-334-8013 M:402-981-4613 (24/7)