Re: informix market share
Not a technical support thread but a speculative debate about IBM's motives after acquiring Informix. One poster argues IBM's aim is to convert Informix users to DB2 and make DB2 Oracle's only rival, citing easier migration paths (shared ESQL/C, possible 4GL port) and moving incentives, and speculates Oracle would have bought and killed Informix to grab its customers. The other counters that this is simply market share, questions the payoff of the $1bn purchase, and doubts the conversion rate after five years. Pure opinion exchange; no technical question and no resolution reached.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
"Bob Jones" <email@me.not> wrote > If not to improve the market share of its databases, what do you think the ultimate goal of > these 2 actions are? In fact, I could care less about what IBM's real motive was, the only thing > matters is the bottom line outcome. ** The ultimate goal is to get Informix customer as DB2. ** The ultimate goal is to make Db2 the only competitor to Oracle. > I don't think IBM wants to kill it quickly. Quite the contrary, they want to give it > life-support for as long as possible. The above statement contradicts your earlier statement that IBM wants to kill it. To be frank, I am yet to hear a convincing argument on why IBM released ver 10 of Informix. I think in the last 5 yrs or so, this is the most significant release. Lack of a convincing reason is forcing me to give benefit of doubt to IBM for the first time since they bought Informix. May be IBM is really interested in keeping informix alive, at least till they bring DB2 upto the standard of Informix. > Yes, but they could migrate to other databases as well. Well it could not be for two reasons:- (a) IBM may give them excellent 'moving' allowance. After all it is money moving from one pocket to other. (b) IBM may make the transition easier. I have a hunch (though nothing to prove) that majority of informix customer use in-house package, or custom developed package. If they are using ESQL-C, Informix 4GL then it is not easy to move to other databases. IBM is slowing making DB2 and Informix compatible from application language point of view. Already they have released ESQL/C which is same for both DB2 and Informix (someone can correct me). It won't be long before 4GL is ported to Db2. > Why do you think Oracle would want to buy Informix and then kill it? It would not have done any > good. Yeah right. I guess LarryE loves Mysql so much that he bought InnoDB recently. And what about Peoplesoft and Siebel. By buying Informix, Oracle would have achieved the following:- - Deny IBM the ability to fast track development of DB2 (there is no question that DB2 folks are benefiting from 2000 odd engineers of Informix who are rapidly bringing Db2 upto speed) - Almost ensure that all Informix customers will migrate to Oracle. It must be frustrating to Oracle that nearly 5 yrs after IBM bought, they are not able to switch the real customers of Informix to Oracle. What I believe is that packaged software customers of Informix (that is those using SAP,Peoplesoft) are migrating fast to oracle, bcos it is easy. But they are not able to do so for shops that run their mission critical applications on Informix. Walmart, Sears, HomeDepot,Walgreens,Eckerd,Longs and many more. If Oracle had bought Informix, they would have got even those customers without much problem.
"rkusenet" <rkusenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ECpif.958$Et5.38022@news20.bellglobal.com... > "Bob Jones" <email@me.not> wrote > >> If not to improve the market share of its databases, what do you think >> the ultimate goal of these 2 actions are? In fact, I could care less >> about what IBM's real motive was, the only thing matters is the bottom >> line outcome. > > ** The ultimate goal is to get Informix customer as DB2. > Doesn't that translate to improving market share? > ** The ultimate goal is to make Db2 the only competitor to Oracle. > I am afraid that will never happen, especially without increasing the market share. >> I don't think IBM wants to kill it quickly. Quite the contrary, they want >> to give it life-support for as long as possible. > > The above statement contradicts your earlier statement that IBM wants > to kill it. > My earlier statement? Please quote me if anything I said even remotely suggesting that. > To be frank, I am yet to hear a convincing argument on why IBM released > ver 10 of Informix. I think in the last 5 yrs or so, this is the most > significant > release. Lack of a convincing reason is forcing me to give benefit of > doubt to IBM for the first time since they bought Informix. May be IBM > is really interested in keeping informix alive, at least till they bring > DB2 > upto the standard of Informix. > Like I said, I have no doubt IBM is trying to keep Informix alive. >> Yes, but they could migrate to other databases as well. > > Well it could not be for two reasons:- > > (a) IBM may give them excellent 'moving' allowance. After > all it is money moving from one pocket to other. What makes you think other vendors cannot? After all it's money moving from IBM's pocket to theirs. > (b) IBM may make the transition easier. I have a hunch > (though nothing to prove) that majority of informix customer > use in-house package, or custom developed package. If they > are using ESQL-C, Informix 4GL then it is not easy to move > to other databases. IBM is slowing making DB2 and Informix > compatible from application language point of view. Already > they have released ESQL/C which is same for both DB2 > and Informix (someone can correct me). It won't be long > before 4GL is ported to Db2. > I hope your hunch is right. After spending all that time and money, it would be disastrous to find out there is not much left to salvage. >> Why do you think Oracle would want to buy Informix and then kill it? It >> would not have done any good. > > Yeah right. I guess LarryE loves Mysql so much that he bought InnoDB > recently. And what about Peoplesoft and Siebel. > Maybe he thought those products were worth the prices, and Informix evidently was not. > By buying Informix, Oracle would have achieved the following:- > > - Deny IBM the ability to fast track development of DB2 > (there is no question that DB2 folks are benefiting from 2000 odd > engineers of Informix who are rapidly bringing Db2 upto speed) For $1 billion plus the cost of maintaining and supporting another product that they already have? I suspect those 2000 engineers don't come cheap. > - Almost ensure that all Informix customers will migrate to Oracle. > It must be frustrating to Oracle that nearly 5 yrs after IBM bought, > they are not able to switch the real customers of Informix to Oracle. > What I believe is that packaged software customers of Informix > (that is those using SAP,Peoplesoft) are migrating fast to oracle, > bcos it is easy. But they are not able to do so for shops that run > their mission critical applications on Informix. Walmart, Sears, > HomeDepot,Walgreens,Eckerd,Longs and many more. If Oracle > had bought Informix, they would have got even those customers > without much problem. > > I am not sure what you meant by "real customers". Those who use packaged software are not "real customers"? How many of those customers have IBM converted to DB2 after 5 years? Has the return justified the cost? Looking back from today, it does not appear so.