ART - Q on MY??port tools
Tim Ertl asked why Art Kagel's myexport has a -D option but myimport doesn't, and complained that myexport/myimport were very slow (hours versus ~35-60 minutes with ipload/HPL for a 6GB, 2.6M-row table migrating from IDS 9.30 to 11.10). Art explained -D just sets DIRTY READ isolation, which is irrelevant to loading, and that HPL should be driven via -D/-C/-S on myexport plus -H D or -H E on myimport, also suggesting -m (defer indexes) and the -p parallel option with a table throttle. Tim found myonpload wouldn't work on 9.30 because its hpl.sql setup script isn't supported there, and was experimenting with hand-built ipload/onpload jobs; Art said he'd retest the HPL path and might move to onpladm. No definitive fix is recorded.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
Art, I see support for "myonpload" in your myexport/myimport programs. One of the draw backs to myexport/myimport is the slow speed. I see the myexport has a "-D" option but myimport does not? I am tempted to hack the LOADPROG variable and let it fly but I wanted to run it by you since you probably would have done it already if it worked. Willing to test... ,,,Tim Tim Ertl 413-442-9000 x6211
Tim, The -D option just runs the myexport using DIRTY READ isolation. Dirty read does NOT affect data loads at all! It only allows you to read data without having to negotiate and wait for locks when reading existing data. Even under DIRTY READ isolation you still have to take locks on the rows that you insert, that's why there is no -D option in myimport. Myimport is slow? Questions: - Have you tried loading using the iploader Express Mode (-H E) ? Can't get faster than that without the real-time loader. - Did you use myexport with -m so that you can use -m with myimport to load the data without the indexes and constraints online? - Are you using the -p option? - With -p if you have many tables (more than 2x #CPU VPs usually) you can see significant slowdowns. If this is the case, let me know and I'll send you the next release of myexport which has a throttle so you can set the maximum number of tables to load in parallel. I haven't finished cleaning it up, so it hasn't been uploaded to the IIUG site, but it works and I can send it to you. IB that I mentioned that to you already. Art On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Tim Ertl <tim@lmrgroup.com> wrote: > Art, I see support for "myonpload" in your myexport/myimport programs. > > One of the draw backs to myexport/myimport is the slow speed. I see the > myexport has a "-D" option but myimport does not? > > I am tempted to hack the LOADPROG variable and let it fly but I wanted to > run it by you since you probably would have done it already if it worked. > > Willing to test... > ,,,Tim > > Tim Ertl > 413-442-9000 x6211 > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Art S. Kagel Oninit (www.oninit.com) IIUG Board of Directors (art@iiug.org) Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions and do not reflect on my employer, Oninit, the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am associated either explicitly or implicitly. Neither do those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves.
Art, thank you for responding. I did ONE table with myexport and then I did the same table with ipload (gui) and I discovered that ipload has some fantastic speed compared to sqlunload. I tried to use myexport and get it to use myonpload but that had some problems and I do not see how I could get it to spawn myonload rather than sqlload. I finally modified the awk script to only be able to run myonpload (yes I tried the -D). I am prepared to create ALL the unload jobs on ipload to import/export everything that way it was that fast! Yes I tried the -p on myexport. When I mean faster I mean FASTER. You sound like you don't expect that so let me describe my situation. I have a TEST system with my biggest problem table. A single table of 2.6million rows, 6GB on Informix 9.30.uc1 1GB memory and some 450mhz Sun Sparc CPUs. Importing onto Informix 11.10 with 32GB memory and 8 core Sparc t5120 cpu. Ipload export takes 35 minutes. Myexport seems to be two times slower on export at about 6hours 30minutes. Myimport takes 10 hours to load. ipload did the same import in 60 minutes. Both machines were idle (no other servers and no users at all on the hardware server). Both WERE creating indexes during the import (no -m). The New server was limping along and cpu usage never went above 2% for either myimport or ipload (import). Most of my 126 tables except that one are less than 500MB some are as small as 1mb. On another test I tried to export ALL my tables (-p) and found it to take 32 hours with myexport. Without the -p it went longer than 30 hours and I killed it as it was unacceptable. I have yet to spend the effort to test a full database export using ipload but I might! The tests are encouraging. Thanks for any info or hints you may have. Tim Ertl 413-442-9000 x6211 -----Original Message----- From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Art Kagel Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:05 PM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: Re: ART - Q on MY??port tools [12893] Tim, The -D option just runs the myexport using DIRTY READ isolation. Dirty read does NOT affect data loads at all! It only allows you to read data without having to negotiate and wait for locks when reading existing data. Even under DIRTY READ isolation you still have to take locks on the rows that you insert, that's why there is no -D option in myimport. Myimport is slow? Questions: - Have you tried loading using the iploader Express Mode (-H E) ? Can't get faster than that without the real-time loader. - Did you use myexport with -m so that you can use -m with myimport to load the data without the indexes and constraints online? - Are you using the -p option? - With -p if you have many tables (more than 2x #CPU VPs usually) you can see significant slowdowns. If this is the case, let me know and I'll send you the next release of myexport which has a throttle so you can set the maximum number of tables to load in parallel. I haven't finished cleaning it up, so it hasn't been uploaded to the IIUG site, but it works and I can send it to you. IB that I mentioned that to you already. Art On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Tim Ertl <tim@lmrgroup.com> wrote: > Art, I see support for "myonpload" in your myexport/myimport programs. > > One of the draw backs to myexport/myimport is the slow speed. I see the > myexport has a "-D" option but myimport does not? > > I am tempted to hack the LOADPROG variable and let it fly but I wanted to > run it by you since you probably would have done it already if it worked. > > Willing to test... > ,,,Tim > > Tim Ertl > 413-442-9000 x6211 > > > > **************************************************************************** *** > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Art S. Kagel Oninit (www.oninit.com) IIUG Board of Directors (art@iiug.org) Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions and do not reflect on my employer, Oninit, the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am associated either explicitly or implicitly. Neither do those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves. **************************************************************************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
Oh, yes, iploader is MUCH faster than sqlreload (or sqlunload for that
matter) even in Deluxe Mode. Getting myexport to use myonpload (and so
ipload) rather than sqlunload/sqlreload should as as simple as adding -D,
-C, or -S to myexport and -H D or -H E to myimport. That's why I was
confused, I though you were saying that using the iploader yourself was MUCH
faster than using myimport with the -HD or -HE option. Now I have to start
running a whole new set of tests to make sure this is working - thanks
(seriously - I thought this worked). I may also recode an option to use the
new onpladm utility instead of myonpload.
Art
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Tim Ertl <tim@lmrgroup.com> wrote:
> Art, thank you for responding. I did ONE table with myexport and then I did
> the same table with ipload (gui) and I discovered that ipload has some
> fantastic speed compared to sqlunload. I tried to use myexport and get it
> to
> use myonpload but that had some problems and I do not see how I could get
> it
> to spawn myonload rather than sqlload. I finally modified the awk script to
> only be able to run myonpload (yes I tried the -D). I am prepared to create
> ALL the unload jobs on ipload to import/export everything that way it was
> that fast!
>
> Yes I tried the -p on myexport.
>
> When I mean faster I mean FASTER. You sound like you don't expect that so
> let me describe my situation. I have a TEST system with my biggest problem
> table. A single table of 2.6million rows, 6GB on Informix 9.30.uc1 1GB
> memory and some 450mhz Sun Sparc CPUs. Importing onto Informix 11.10 with
> 32GB memory and 8 core Sparc t5120 cpu.
> Ipload export takes 35 minutes. Myexport seems to be two times slower on
> export at about 6hours 30minutes.
> Myimport takes 10 hours to load. ipload did the same import in 60 minutes.
> Both machines were idle (no other servers and no users at all on the
> hardware server). Both WERE creating indexes during the import (no -m). The
> New server was limping along and cpu usage never went above 2% for either
> myimport or ipload (import).
>
> Most of my 126 tables except that one are less than 500MB some are as small
> as 1mb. On another test I tried to export ALL my tables (-p) and found it
> to
> take 32 hours with myexport. Without the -p it went longer than 30 hours
> and
> I killed it as it was unacceptable. I have yet to spend the effort to test
> a
> full database export using ipload but I might! The tests are encouraging.
>
> Thanks for any info or hints you may have.
>
> Tim Ertl
> 413-442-9000 x6211
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Art
> Kagel
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:05 PM
> To: ids@iiug.org
> Subject: Re: ART - Q on MY??port tools [12893]
>
> Tim,
>
> The -D option just runs the myexport using DIRTY READ isolation. Dirty read
> does NOT affect data loads at all! It only allows you to read data without
> having to negotiate and wait for locks when reading existing data. Even
> under DIRTY READ isolation you still have to take locks on the rows that
> you
>
> insert, that's why there is no -D option in myimport.
>
> Myimport is slow? Questions:
>
> - Have you tried loading using the iploader Express Mode (-H E) ? Can't
>
> get faster than that without the real-time loader.
>
> - Did you use myexport with -m so that you can use -m with myimport to
>
> load the data without the indexes and constraints online?
>
> - Are you using the -p option?
>
> - With -p if you have many tables (more than 2x #CPU VPs usually) you
>
> can see significant slowdowns. If this is the case, let me know and I'll
>
> send you the next release of myexport which has a throttle so you can set
>
> the maximum number of tables to load in parallel. I haven't finished
>
> cleaning it up, so it hasn't been uploaded to the IIUG site, but it works
>
> and I can send it to you. IB that I mentioned that to you already.
>
> Art
>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Tim Ertl <tim@lmrgroup.com> wrote:
>
> > Art, I see support for "myonpload" in your myexport/myimport programs.
> >
> > One of the draw backs to myexport/myimport is the slow speed. I see the
> > myexport has a "-D" option but myimport does not?
> >
> > I am tempted to hack the LOADPROG variable and let it fly but I wanted to
> > run it by you since you probably would have done it already if it worked.
> >
> > Willing to test...
> > ,,,Tim
> >
> > Tim Ertl
> > 413-442-9000 x6211
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ****************************************************************************
> ***
> > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Art S. Kagel
> Oninit (www.oninit.com)
> IIUG Board of Directors (art@iiug.org)
>
> Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
> and
>
> do not reflect on my employer, Oninit, the IIUG, nor any other organization
> with which I am associated either explicitly or implicitly. Neither do
> those
>
> opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity with
> which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves.
>
>
> ****************************************************************************
> ***
> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
>
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
>
--
Art S. Kagel
Oninit (www.oninit.com)
IIUG Board of Directors (art@iiug.org)
Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions and
do not reflect on my employer, Oninit, the IIUG, nor any other organization
with which I am associated either explicitly or implicitly. Neither do those
opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity with
which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves.
Art, further research showed me that myonpload can not run right on Informix
9.30 due to lack of support in the 9.30 spl for the hpl.sql set up script.
I am looking at the ipload database that gets created to store parameters to
run on the onpload jobs. I also found a very good article on The Informix
High Performance Loader - Part 1 Posted by Andrew Ford @ 01:03 PM ET | May
16, 2008. This article uses a yucky ipxladm program with messy set up files
to create the onpload jobs.
What I did so far was create a single job with ipload and I am thinking of
writing a dbaccess script to change the names of the tables and files I want
to backup in the onpload database and then run onpload. They appear to be in
plain text. I am tinkering. There has to be a better way. I see myexport
referenced by other people doing upgrades. I can not believe so many sites
do upgrades manually!
Tim Ertl
413-442-9000 x6211
-----Original Message-----
From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Art
Kagel
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:16 PM
To: ids@iiug.org
Subject: Re: ART - Q on MY??port tools [12898]
Oh, yes, iploader is MUCH faster than sqlreload (or sqlunload for that
matter) even in Deluxe Mode. Getting myexport to use myonpload (and so
ipload) rather than sqlunload/sqlreload should as as simple as adding -D,
-C, or -S to myexport and -H D or -H E to myimport. That's why I was
confused, I though you were saying that using the iploader yourself was MUCH
faster than using myimport with the -HD or -HE option. Now I have to start
running a whole new set of tests to make sure this is working - thanks
(seriously - I thought this worked). I may also recode an option to use the
new onpladm utility instead of myonpload.
Art
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Tim Ertl <tim@lmrgroup.com> wrote:
> Art, thank you for responding. I did ONE table with myexport and then I
did
> the same table with ipload (gui) and I discovered that ipload has some
> fantastic speed compared to sqlunload. I tried to use myexport and get it
> to
> use myonpload but that had some problems and I do not see how I could get
> it
> to spawn myonload rather than sqlload. I finally modified the awk script
to
> only be able to run myonpload (yes I tried the -D). I am prepared to
create
> ALL the unload jobs on ipload to import/export everything that way it was
> that fast!
>
> Yes I tried the -p on myexport.
>
> When I mean faster I mean FASTER. You sound like you don't expect that so
> let me describe my situation. I have a TEST system with my biggest problem
> table. A single table of 2.6million rows, 6GB on Informix 9.30.uc1 1GB
> memory and some 450mhz Sun Sparc CPUs. Importing onto Informix 11.10 with
> 32GB memory and 8 core Sparc t5120 cpu.
> Ipload export takes 35 minutes. Myexport seems to be two times slower on
> export at about 6hours 30minutes.
> Myimport takes 10 hours to load. ipload did the same import in 60 minutes.
> Both machines were idle (no other servers and no users at all on the
> hardware server). Both WERE creating indexes during the import (no -m).
The
> New server was limping along and cpu usage never went above 2% for either
> myimport or ipload (import).
>
> Most of my 126 tables except that one are less than 500MB some are as
small
> as 1mb. On another test I tried to export ALL my tables (-p) and found it
> to
> take 32 hours with myexport. Without the -p it went longer than 30 hours
> and
> I killed it as it was unacceptable. I have yet to spend the effort to test
> a
> full database export using ipload but I might! The tests are encouraging.
>
> Thanks for any info or hints you may have.
>
> Tim Ertl
> 413-442-9000 x6211
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Art
> Kagel
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:05 PM
> To: ids@iiug.org
> Subject: Re: ART - Q on MY??port tools [12893]
>
> Tim,
>
> The -D option just runs the myexport using DIRTY READ isolation. Dirty
read
> does NOT affect data loads at all! It only allows you to read data without
> having to negotiate and wait for locks when reading existing data. Even
> under DIRTY READ isolation you still have to take locks on the rows that
> you
>
> insert, that's why there is no -D option in myimport.
>
> Myimport is slow? Questions:
>
> - Have you tried loading using the iploader Express Mode (-H E) ? Can't
>
> get faster than that without the real-time loader.
>
> - Did you use myexport with -m so that you can use -m with myimport to
>
> load the data without the indexes and constraints online?
>
> - Are you using the -p option?
>
> - With -p if you have many tables (more than 2x #CPU VPs usually) you
>
> can see significant slowdowns. If this is the case, let me know and I'll
>
> send you the next release of myexport which has a throttle so you can set
>
> the maximum number of tables to load in parallel. I haven't finished
>
> cleaning it up, so it hasn't been uploaded to the IIUG site, but it works
>
> and I can send it to you. IB that I mentioned that to you already.
>
> Art
>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Tim Ertl <tim@lmrgroup.com> wrote:
>
> > Art, I see support for "myonpload" in your myexport/myimport programs.
> >
> > One of the draw backs to myexport/myimport is the slow speed. I see the
> > myexport has a "-D" option but myimport does not?
> >
> > I am tempted to hack the LOADPROG variable and let it fly but I wanted
to
> > run it by you since you probably would have done it already if it
worked.
> >
> > Willing to test...
> > ,,,Tim
> >
> > Tim Ertl
> > 413-442-9000 x6211
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
****************************************************************************
> ***
> > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Art S. Kagel
> Oninit (www.oninit.com)
> IIUG Board of Directors (art@iiug.org)
>
> Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
> and
>
> do not reflect on my employer, Oninit, the IIUG, nor any other
organization
> with which I am associated either explicitly or implicitly. Neither do
> those
>
> opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity
with
> which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves.
>
>
>
****************************************************************************
> ***
> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
>
>
>
****************************************************************************
***
> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
>
--
Art S. Kagel
Oninit (www.oninit.com)
IIUG Board of Directors (art@iiug.org)
Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions and
do not reflect on my employer, Oninit, the IIUG, nor any other organization
wit
A lot of folk either don't trust the in-place upgrade built-in or if they
are migrating hardware at the same time don't want to hassle restoring an
HDR secondary on the new machine using the older version the upgrading the
new server in place or if they platforms are not compatible don't want to
hassle with using ER to replicate the server on the new machine or don't
have an Enterprise license that will allow them to do that.
Art
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Tim Ertl <tim@lmrgroup.com> wrote:
> Art, further research showed me that myonpload can not run right on
> Informix
> 9.30 due to lack of support in the 9.30 spl for the hpl.sql set up script.
>
> I am looking at the ipload database that gets created to store parameters
> to
> run on the onpload jobs. I also found a very good article on The Informix
> High Performance Loader - Part 1 Posted by Andrew Ford @ 01:03 PM ET | May
> 16, 2008. This article uses a yucky ipxladm program with messy set up files
> to create the onpload jobs.
> What I did so far was create a single job with ipload and I am thinking of
> writing a dbaccess script to change the names of the tables and files I
> want
> to backup in the onpload database and then run onpload. They appear to be
> in
> plain text. I am tinkering. There has to be a better way. I see myexport
> referenced by other people doing upgrades. I can not believe so many sites
> do upgrades manually!
>
> Tim Ertl
> 413-442-9000 x6211
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Art
> Kagel
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:16 PM
> To: ids@iiug.org
> Subject: Re: ART - Q on MY??port tools [12898]
>
> Oh, yes, iploader is MUCH faster than sqlreload (or sqlunload for that
> matter) even in Deluxe Mode. Getting myexport to use myonpload (and so
> ipload) rather than sqlunload/sqlreload should as as simple as adding -D,
> -C, or -S to myexport and -H D or -H E to myimport. That's why I was
> confused, I though you were saying that using the iploader yourself was
> MUCH
>
> faster than using myimport with the -HD or -HE option. Now I have to start
> running a whole new set of tests to make sure this is working - thanks
> (seriously - I thought this worked). I may also recode an option to use the
> new onpladm utility instead of myonpload.
>
> Art
>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Tim Ertl <tim@lmrgroup.com> wrote:
>
> > Art, thank you for responding. I did ONE table with myexport and then I
> did
> > the same table with ipload (gui) and I discovered that ipload has some
> > fantastic speed compared to sqlunload. I tried to use myexport and get it
> > to
> > use myonpload but that had some problems and I do not see how I could get
> > it
> > to spawn myonload rather than sqlload. I finally modified the awk script
> to
> > only be able to run myonpload (yes I tried the -D). I am prepared to
> create
> > ALL the unload jobs on ipload to import/export everything that way it was
> > that fast!
> >
> > Yes I tried the -p on myexport.
> >
> > When I mean faster I mean FASTER. You sound like you don't expect that so
> > let me describe my situation. I have a TEST system with my biggest
> problem
>
> > table. A single table of 2.6million rows, 6GB on Informix 9.30.uc1 1GB
> > memory and some 450mhz Sun Sparc CPUs. Importing onto Informix 11.10 with
> > 32GB memory and 8 core Sparc t5120 cpu.
> > Ipload export takes 35 minutes. Myexport seems to be two times slower on
> > export at about 6hours 30minutes.
> > Myimport takes 10 hours to load. ipload did the same import in 60
> minutes.
>
> > Both machines were idle (no other servers and no users at all on the
> > hardware server). Both WERE creating indexes during the import (no -m).
> The
> > New server was limping along and cpu usage never went above 2% for either
> > myimport or ipload (import).
> >
> > Most of my 126 tables except that one are less than 500MB some are as
> small
> > as 1mb. On another test I tried to export ALL my tables (-p) and found it
> > to
> > take 32 hours with myexport. Without the -p it went longer than 30 hours
> > and
> > I killed it as it was unacceptable. I have yet to spend the effort to
> test
>
> > a
> > full database export using ipload but I might! The tests are encouraging.
> >
> > Thanks for any info or hints you may have.
> >
> > Tim Ertl
> > 413-442-9000 x6211
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of
> Art
> > Kagel
> > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:05 PM
> > To: ids@iiug.org
> > Subject: Re: ART - Q on MY??port tools [12893]
> >
> > Tim,
> >
> > The -D option just runs the myexport using DIRTY READ isolation. Dirty
> read
> > does NOT affect data loads at all! It only allows you to read data
> without
>
> > having to negotiate and wait for locks when reading existing data. Even
> > under DIRTY READ isolation you still have to take locks on the rows that
> > you
> >
> > insert, that's why there is no -D option in myimport.
> >
> > Myimport is slow? Questions:
> >
> > - Have you tried loading using the iploader Express Mode (-H E) ? Can't
> >
> > get faster than that without the real-time loader.
> >
> > - Did you use myexport with -m so that you can use -m with myimport to
> >
> > load the data without the indexes and constraints online?
> >
> > - Are you using the -p option?
> >
> > - With -p if you have many tables (more than 2x #CPU VPs usually) you
> >
> > can see significant slowdowns. If this is the case, let me know and I'll
> >
> > send you the next release of myexport which has a throttle so you can set
> >
> > the maximum number of tables to load in parallel. I haven't finished
> >
> > cleaning it up, so it hasn't been uploaded to the IIUG site, but it works
> >
> > and I can send it to you. IB that I mentioned that to you already.
> >
> > Art
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Tim Ertl <tim@lmrgroup.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Art, I see support for "myonpload" in your myexport/myimport programs.
> > >
> > > One of the draw backs to myexport/myimport is the slow speed. I see the
> > > myexport has a "-D" option but myimport does not?
> > >
> > > I am tempted to hack the LOADPROG variable and let it fly but I wanted
> to
> > > run it by you since you probably would have done it already if it
> worked.
> > >
> > > Willing to test...
> > > ,,,Tim
> > >
> > > Tim Ertl
> > > 413-442-9000 x6211
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ****************************************************************************
>
> > ***
> > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Art S. Kagel
> > Oninit (www.oninit.com)
> > IIUG Board of Directors (art@iiug.org)
> >
> > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
> > and
> >
> > do not reflect on my employer, Oninit, the IIUG, nor any other
> organi