Re: Re: verboten WAS: Insider #59: IDS Express

;) -----Original Message----- From: Data Goob <datagoob@netscape.net> To: informix-list@iiug.org Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:21:31 -0400 Subject: Re: verboten WAS: Insider #59: IDS Express Christopher wrote: > Although a US citizen by birth, I was raised overseas and unfortunately > learned English, along with a number of other languages. Upon my > return to these great States, I was obliged to relearn the lingua > franca of the dominant sub culture. > Yes we're soooooo sub culture here. We came over to Europe and rescued your European dumbasses from such high culture as the Nazis. They were too high brow for us, which offended us so much--we just didn't get it, what with the outfits, and genocide and all it was too much for us. In recent times we have lent a hand to other disasters and provided aid because of our dominant sub culture having the opportunity to give to others in need, but you are too above it all to think about that. I've worked with a lot of foreigners who come to America thinking they are better than we are, then, amazingly enough, not even as citizens, they are buying houses and raising families here, paying taxes, sending their kids to the best schools, etc. Then they have the gall to say they are better than we are. Better in what way? That you lived in Europe or outside the US and went to a European or non-American school, or that your life was more interesting than living in Kansas, the most boring place on the planet? Go back to Europe if you don't like it here. Or move to a more interesting part of the US, Kansas is hardly representative of the whole US. > Imagine my surprise upon discovering that Americans, most of whom will > exert precisely no effort to learn a foreign language, are usually > impressed by the casual use of foreign words or expressions. America is a big country. There is hardly any need to speak anything else besides English, as the majority of people in the country speak English. Get over it. ( Of course if you visit Miami you might find the need to speak Spanish, English is considered a second language there. ) We don't need to apologize for not speaking three or four languages, this is something elitist assholes like to foist upon us as something we need to feel bad about. I don't give a shit about not speaking multiple languages. I do know alot about many different languages but unless I would need to speak them, what's the point? Most European languages, including English come from Latin, so what? > Technically, these are referred to as "foreignisms". As Kenneth G. > Wilson wrote, in The Columbia Guide to Standard American English, > "Never use foreignisms to impress others with your erudition," most > Yanks simply do it to seem cool, since they don't know what erudition > means, either. > And most don't care. > So, dropping a bon mot from a language you don't know is tr's chic. > Of course, the French language (should that be "Freedom Language"?) is > currently pass' in these United States, but German is still 'ber > cool. Yiddish is always menschy, so if you can drop a "bubbele" in > while sipping your grande chai latte, then everyone will know you're > livin' la vida loca despite the fact that the closest you've come to an > actual date was sweating on a Natalie Portman body double in full Naboo > costume at the convention last year. But, hey, if some hasi questions > your machismo, you just go kung foo on the little castrati tuchas (or > at least DDOS his ISP). > Actually people like you are not tres chic, you are annoyingly arrogant. > Frequently, the meaning (and/or spelling) varies significantly. > Consider "verboten", for example. Somehow, using the German term for > "forbidden" implies the prohibition can be gotten around. This, I > understand, actually dates to an old television show called Hogan's > Heroes which portrayed the officers of a Nazi prisoner of war camp as > incompetent schmucks. If something is described as "strictly > verboten", you can bet the person using the description is planning on > doing what is by no means allowed. This is because, in the Hollywood > version, everyone in the Great Escape got away. In reality, all but > three were recaptured and most were executed. > > Of course, the British use foreign words, too, but Americans tend to be > a little more proprietary. Once we take a word from your language, you > may never recognise it, again. For that matter, the Brits can barely > recognise what we've done with their entire language. It's 'cause > we're like, totally 'ber. > Easy enough for me to say some rather offensive things about Germany, England or France, or South Africa for that matter, but I'll save all of you delicate Europeans from my thoughts on those things. What I will say is that I find Americans that suddenly have the need to apologize for being American as really offensive. What are you apologizing for? Why do Americans need to feel like we owe other countries something? We are one of the most generous countries on Earth, and yet we have to listen to elitist Eurotrash tell us we have to live up to their standard? What standard? That you think you are better than other people? I will never apologize for being a citizen of this country, nor apologize for not being able to speak other non-English languages well. Yes, there are things here that I find annoying, such as the excessive consumerism, and lots of fat people in Kansas by the way, but this is still one of the best places to live on the planet. If I decide to travel to a certain country I will learn enough to be conversant but never will apologize for being an American. The only thing that I might apologize for is that I didn't learn their language well enough. Too many people want to come and live here because of their REAL sub-human, sub-cultural existence, that they still see the USA as a bright, shining place to come and live. > Certainly, for those to whom all forms of English are foreign, this is > highly confusing. Especially when the words are used entirely > malapropriately. Sorry. Ita erat quando hic adveni. > Whatever, go back to where you came from, certainly it's better there than here, what with all this freedom, innovation, and generosity. And by the way, don't forget where Informix and IBM came from--hint hint, it wasn't Europe. > Sincerely, > > Christopher Coleman > > President > Kansas City Informix Users Group > www.iiug.org/kciug > > Database Analyst > Medication Management > Mediware Information Systems, Inc. > > PS. This entire post is due to my classical education rebelling > against the fact I reside in Kansas. > Yes whatever. Jean Sagi jeansagi@myrealbox.com jeansagi@gmail.com sending to informix-list

> > > Yes we're soooooo sub culture here. We came over to Europe and rescued your > European dumbasses from such high culture as the Nazis. They were too high > brow for us, which offended us so much--we just didn't get it, what with > the outfits, and genocide and all it was too much for us. Well thanks for clearing that up. Here was me thinking that you didn't give a toss and were hiding from the entire affair until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour, thus forcing you into a war that, until that point, you were determinedly hiding from. Unlike the Canadians, for example. Ok - once in, your troops showed incredible valour and determination - but when you put that sacrifice against those made by the Russians and Chinese, who lost about 60 million people defending against the Japanese and Germans, the rather arrogant comeback you always hear from the Yanks 'If it wasn't for us you'd all be speaking German' really has to be countered with - 'Well, if it wasn't for the sacrifices the Russians made on the western front (they lost up to 17% of their total population by some respectable academic studies - you lost less then 1/3 of one percent) and the Chinese in northern China, while you were sitting it out, you'd be speaking Japanese.' The involvement of the US was not a noble gesture based upon humanitarian concerns. Your hand was forced. Before you bring it up - yes, the supplies you gave to the USSR in lend, lease were absolutely critical in allowing them to hold out once you did get involved. This is not Yank bashing, just an assessment of the facts. As I'm sure you'd accept, essential as it was, it was very nearly too little, too late. > > In recent times we have lent a hand to other disasters Like Iraq, Afghanistan, Central America, Vietnam, Korea etc etc? Or your support for regimes like that in Uzbekistan and others where torture and human rights abuses are rampant (admittedly, the UK sacked our ambassador for mentioning the fact that they were boiling people to death)? Or your funding and training for the likes of Usama Bin-Laden Or the School of the Americas? Illegal arms sales to Iraq, which many believe were funded partly through sales of drugs from US client states in Central America? and provided aid > because of our dominant sub culture having the opportunity to give to > others in need, Ok - so the massive debt write offs for highly indebited countries just announced by the IMF was an American led initiative, was it? Or have they been fighting it tooth and nail. Like the still stalled initiative to disengage aid from neocon requirements to privatise and 'restructure' markets to bring down protection for local markets designed to protect the impoverished to prevent dumping of produce over produced due to the massive subsidies paid to your agricultural sector? While you still maintain the tarrif barriers for products like cotton, sugar etc that you seek to deny others? Remind me again - what proportion of GDP do you give in foreign aid not linked to US military or construction work, or other projects directly related to US economic interests. The UK has explicitly delinked aid from backdoor support for UK companies. The US hasn't. The CIA it'sself has identified global warming as the most important factor in growing global political and military instability, and negative impact on the global poor. Your contribution to tackling this is hardly a positive one is it? (Not you personally, mate, but you know what I mean) > I've worked with a lot of foreigners who come to America thinking they > are better than we are, If that's the case then you're letting in some rather unfortunate individuals. No one person is better than another on the whole. I may disagree with a lot of what the US does, but I've met some class Yanks. THere again - look at US literature, find me 10 authors better than Steinbeck, Irving, Vonnegut (naturalised, I know, but he's still an American), Salinger, Wolfe - a better writer of sports stories than Ring Lardner. Then there's the Simpsons. Depressingly enough, the 'US' king of lowbrow tat, on the other hand, Gerry Springer, is actually a Brit. However - are these people - in general - really as arrogant as you suggest, or do they just, like Vonnegut, disagree with US foreign policy, having a broader view having lived elsewhere in the world and seen the results? You live in a country, remember, where fewer than 2% of the population even hold a passport. Given the wealth of the nation, that does hint at a degree of self satisfied insularity. > > > > Imagine my surprise upon discovering that Americans, most of whom will > > exert precisely no effort to learn a foreign language, are usually > > impressed by the casual use of foreign words or expressions. > since they don't know what erudition > > means, either. > > > > And most don't care. And you reckon that is a *good* thing? > > > > Actually people like you are not tres chic, you are annoyingly arrogant. > And Dubya isn't? Once we take a word from your language, you > > may never recognise it, again. For that matter, the Brits can barely > > recognise what we've done with their entire language. It's 'cause > > we're like, totally 'ber. > > > > Easy enough for me to say some rather offensive things about Germany, England > or France, or South Africa for that matter, but I'll save all of you delicate > Europeans from my thoughts on those things. Funny that - reading it from my perspective, this guy is a US citizen with a sense of humour, unlike you. Not a Eurpoean. > > I will never apologize for being a citizen of this country, Who asked you to? Hint - a chip on each shoulder does not make you a balanced person. > nor apologize for > not being able to speak other non-English languages well. Yes, there are things > here that I find annoying, such as the excessive consumerism, and lots of fat > people in Kansas by the way, but this is still one of the best places to live > on the planet. If I decide to travel to a certain country I will learn enough > to be conversant but never will apologize for being an American. The only thing > that I might apologize for is that I didn't learn their language well enough. That's a positive balanced attitude to be fair. I would say that learning another language, even a little - helps keep the mind supple. In my experience, learning a little of the language does show respect, people are delighted, then want to practice their English (or more exactly, American). If you live on the west coast, can I recommend vietnam - class place, and from your post I'm sure you'd be amused by te fact the French (and Brits) get mistaken for Merkins all the time, which funnily enough really pisses off the French. Their language is a bit tricky being tonal with 7 or 8 different tones though. > Whatever, go back to where you came from, certainly it's better there > than here, what with all this freedom, innovation, and generosity. And > by the way, don't forget where Informix and IBM came from--hint hint, > it wasn't Europe. In that csae, don't forget the fact that most of the IBM technology came from the University

"Andrew" <a@a.co.uk> wrote in message news:ReZqe.19547$%21.11946@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net... > THere again - look at US literature, find me 10 authors better than > Steinbeck, Irving, Vonnegut (naturalised, I know, but he's still an > American), Salinger, Wolfe - a better writer of sports stories than Ring > Lardner. Then there's the Simpsons. Depressingly enough, the 'US' king > of > lowbrow tat, on the other hand, Gerry Springer, is actually a Brit. In fact, Kurt Vonnegut is a native American (not a "Native American"!). Jerry Springer, whilst born in England, emigrated to the US at a very early age and was naturalised as a US citizen as a child. So he's only a Brit in the sense that, say, John McEnroe is German, or Natalie Portman Israeli .... or indeed that Nicole Kidman is American!

"Captain Pedantic" <theharlequin36@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3h3akuFet2ebU1@individual.net... > "Andrew" <a@a.co.uk> wrote in message > news:ReZqe.19547$%21.11946@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net... > > > THere again - look at US literature, find me 10 authors better than > > Steinbeck, Irving, Vonnegut (naturalised, I know, but he's still an > > American), Salinger, Wolfe - a better writer of sports stories than Ring > > Lardner. Then there's the Simpsons. Depressingly enough, the 'US' king > > of > > lowbrow tat, on the other hand, Gerry Springer, is actually a Brit. > > In fact, Kurt Vonnegut is a native American (not a "Native American"!). > > Jerry Springer, whilst born in England, emigrated to the US at a very early > age and was naturalised as a US citizen as a child. So he's only a Brit in > the sense that, say, John McEnroe is German, or Natalie Portman Israeli .... > or indeed that Nicole Kidman is American! > > > Fair point - thank god we're not responsible for Gerry Springer, and of course I meant naturalised for Mr Vonnegut. Just in case you wanted to read that again. He was actually born a German. Slaughterhouse 5 was partially based upon his experiences of the firebombing of Dresden. He's certainly not Sioux, or a member of any other Native American tribe I can think of, and neither was he born in the US. He was born in Germany, just in case you missed that and your Google is broken. My god, how smug am I <blush> </blush> Oh btw - didn't GS keep his Brit nationality? Admittedly - I hope not, but I think he did ... If you can prove me wrong here, I do owe you a pint or 3, I don't like him very much.

"Andrew" <a@a.co.uk> wrote in message news:0L3re.19754$%21.11152@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net... > "Captain Pedantic" <theharlequin36@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:3h3akuFet2ebU1@individual.net... >> "Andrew" <a@a.co.uk> wrote in message >> news:ReZqe.19547$%21.11946@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net... > Fair point - thank god we're not responsible for Gerry Springer, and of > course I meant naturalised for Mr Vonnegut. Just in case you wanted to > read > that again. He was actually born a German. Slaughterhouse 5 was > partially > based upon his experiences of the firebombing of Dresden. He's certainly > not Sioux, or a member of any other Native American tribe I can think of, > and neither was he born in the US. He was born in Germany, just in case > you missed that and your Google is broken. Kurt Vonnegut was born in Indiana, in the United States. Hence my description of him as a native American. He went to school and university in the US and, his name aside, there is no reason to consider him as anything but American. Slaughterhouse Five was indeed partially based upon his expereinces of the bombing of Dresden: he was there as an American prisoner-of-war. > My god, how smug am I And how inappropriately so.

"Captain Pedantic" <theharlequin36@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3h42acFf7370U1@individual.net... > "Andrew" <a@a.co.uk> wrote in message > news:0L3re.19754$%21.11152@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net... > > "Captain Pedantic" <theharlequin36@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:3h3akuFet2ebU1@individual.net... > >> "Andrew" <a@a.co.uk> wrote in message > >> news:ReZqe.19547$%21.11946@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net... > > > Fair point - thank god we're not responsible for Gerry Springer, and of > > course I meant naturalised for Mr Vonnegut. Just in case you wanted to > > read > > that again. He was actually born a German. Slaughterhouse 5 was > > partially > > based upon his experiences of the firebombing of Dresden. He's certainly > > not Sioux, or a member of any other Native American tribe I can think of, > > and neither was he born in the US. He was born in Germany, just in case > > you missed that and your Google is broken. > > Kurt Vonnegut was born in Indiana, in the United States. Hence my > description of him as a native American. He went to school and university > in the US and, his name aside, there is no reason to consider him as > anything but American. > > Slaughterhouse Five was indeed partially based upon his expereinces of the > bombing of Dresden: he was there as an American prisoner-of-war. > > > My god, how smug am I > > And how inappropriately so. > Aye, come to think of it, you're right - can't even be bothered to google it to try and prove you wrong as I'd be wasting my time, as as soon as I saw it, it reminded me. I should have known that - thanks.

Andrew wrote: > Well thanks for clearing that up. No problem chap n oll that. > Here was me thinking that you didn't give > a toss and were hiding from the entire affair until the Japanese bombed > Pearl Harbour, thus forcing you into a war that, until that point, you were > determinedly hiding from. Unlike the Canadians, for example. Who? :-) > Ok - once in, your troops showed incredible valour and determination - but > when you put that sacrifice against those made by the Russians and Chinese, > who lost about 60 million people defending against the Japanese and Germans, > the rather arrogant comeback you always hear from the Yanks 'If it wasn't > for us you'd all be speaking German' really has to be countered with - > 'Well, if it wasn't for the sacrifices the Russians made on the western > front (they lost up to 17% of their total population by some respectable > academic studies - you lost less then 1/3 of one percent) and the Chinese in > northern China, while you were sitting it out, you'd be speaking Japanese.' > The involvement of the US was not a noble gesture based upon humanitarian > concerns. Your hand was forced. Let's say you're right, it would still argue we paid a price, and did put skin in the game. So maybe it accounts for my particular attitude that I don't go around telling people I'm better than they are. I do argue I'm better off, but simply luck 'o the draw, and for that I cannot remain anything but grateful, and humble to be where I am. Knowing many others from here and elsewhere paid for my comparably "easy" living, it reminds me not to forget that I could have just as easily been in the shoes of those that suffered at the hands of evil. It is true many Americans represent us badly, as overweight, t-shirt wearing slobs with no taste or decorum, and for that you have my apologies, as much as I accept there are many from Europe or elsewhere that are not the best representatives of their particular nations. It is a challenge to see beyond the worst examples. > Before you bring it up - yes, the supplies you gave to the USSR in lend, > lease were absolutely critical in allowing them to hold out once you did get > involved. This is not Yank bashing, just an assessment of the facts. As > I'm sure you'd accept, essential as it was, it was very nearly too little, > too late. > Well, history speaks for itself, really at this point it's all academic. > >>In recent times we have lent a hand to other disasters > > Like Iraq, Afghanistan, Central America, Vietnam, Korea etc etc? Again, don't think that America has one hive-mind that thinks all the decisions our illustrious leaders have made, have been the right ones. Not all of us voted for GW Bush or his ultra-right-wing war mongers. There are plenty of us who can think and are not happy with the current state of affairs, but there is little we can do for now but wait it out till the next election. I'd be willing to bet that the 80/20 rule would apply anywhere, 80% of the population voted without really thinking and the 20% that did think weren't enough to make a difference. But don't readily assume we all think alike, or enjoy seeing our soldiers die for oil barons. > Or your support for regimes like that in Uzbekistan and others where torture > and human rights abuses are rampant (admittedly, the UK sacked our > ambassador for mentioning the fact that they were boiling people to death)? > Or your funding and training for the likes of Usama Bin-Laden > Or the School of the Americas? > Illegal arms sales to Iraq, which many believe were funded partly through > sales of drugs from US client states in Central America? > It is dreadful to think that these things happen, but again don't think all Americans are blind to what is going on. > > and provided aid > >>because of our dominant sub culture having the opportunity to give to >>others in need, > > Ok - so the massive debt write offs for highly indebited countries just > announced by the IMF was an American led initiative, was it? Or have they > been fighting it tooth and nail. Like the still stalled initiative to > disengage aid from neocon requirements to privatise and 'restructure' > markets to bring down protection for local markets designed to protect the > impoverished to prevent dumping of produce over produced due to the massive > subsidies paid to your agricultural sector? While you still maintain the > tarrif barriers for products like cotton, sugar etc that you seek to deny > others? Wow, too much to comment on here. Whew! > Remind me again - what proportion of GDP do you give in foreign aid not > linked to US military or construction work, or other projects directly > related to US economic interests. The UK has explicitly delinked aid from > backdoor support for UK companies. The US hasn't. > The CIA it'sself has identified global warming as the most important factor > in growing global political and military instability, and negative impact on > the global poor. Your contribution to tackling this is hardly a positive > one is it? (Not you personally, mate, but you know what I mean) > Uhb well, I'm just a data goob, not qualified to comment on this you'll have to forgive me. > > >>I've worked with a lot of foreigners who come to America thinking they >>are better than we are, > > If that's the case then you're letting in some rather unfortunate > individuals. No one person is better than another on the whole. I may > disagree with a lot of what the US does, but I've met some class Yanks. Oh good. I've met a few class people(s) too from every corner of the planet. > THere again - look at US literature, find me 10 authors better than > Steinbeck, Irving, Vonnegut (naturalised, I know, but he's still an > American), Salinger, Wolfe - a better writer of sports stories than Ring > Lardner. Then there's the Simpsons. Depressingly enough, the 'US' king of > lowbrow tat, on the other hand, Gerry Springer, is actually a Brit. Dunno if I can help you here either, I've read my share of literature, but again not qualified to really get into this kind of debate. Now get me going on music, well, that's another thread...for another time. > However - are these people - in general - really as arrogant as you suggest, > or do they just, like Vonnegut, disagree with US foreign policy, having a > broader view having lived elsewhere in the world and seen the results? You > live in a country, remember, where fewer than 2% of the population even hold > a passport. Given the wealth of the nation, that does hint at a degree of > self satisfied insularity. > I'd say a bit of travel is good for everyone, however, keep in mind that travel to/from Europe or anywhere outside the US is still a luxury for a lot of Americans. The work ethic is really different here, as well as the general belief by a lot of people that traveling outside the US is not as safe as it used to be, what with a lot of news of hatred towards US citizens. It is easier to stay home, or travel locally until things improve and the vitriol towards Americans dies down. Hate us all you want, but it definitely tells people to stay home, what's the poi