Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,The Next Informix IDS Release...

As this is an IIUG run event, who do people believe should "pay"? This is an IDUG / IIUG run event IIUG board of directors selected the presenters and the topics , not IBM. IBM has provided a host of speakers for Informix, many more than it has provided for DB2. Would IBM receive less critisism for this event if it did not provide any support at all? Davorin, you say there was 1 Informix "user" there from the whole country.. There were about 4 Croatia flags around the conference. How many DB2 LUW and DB2 z/OS clients are there in Croatia? Would 3 people from that client base be a significantly higher proportion? Has this same cost restricted the DB2 attendance at this event as well as the Informix attendance? Davorin Kremenjas wrote: > Since your previous post was a reaction to mine, I feel I should comment > some more... > > > Actually, if you actually read my post you would have noticed that I was > > blasting people for the following: > > 1. Moaning that they had to pay for education; > > 2. Moaning that the IIUG never did anything in Europe and then moaning for > > what they did do when they did it; > > 3. Moaning that there was always something wrong with the education > > offered by the IIUG and other local user groups yet not having the > > gumption to get involved and contribute something themselves. > > I couldn't agree more. I saw an agenda, the speakers' names, I'm sure it > will be a great conference, and finally one in Europe. > Of course that such an education event should be paid for. Of course moaning > serves no purpose at all. > > Now, here is the irony: Vienna is only a few hours drive from Croatia's > capital, Zagreb, where the most of the Informix users in Croatia are. > I personally know many people (DBA's mainly) who wanted to attend. The truth > is that only one person (in the whole country) was able to go. > One and only reason - the price. > That's not moaning, that's dissapointment. > To quote TBP, if the price was 500 Euros at least few more people would go, > for the same net price. > None of them go to conferences for drinks and food, they do that on weekend > barbecues at home :-) > > Yes, finally one great IIUG conference in Europe, almost a walking distance > away, and we still can't go...

John, I don't think our croatian friend was objecting to having to pay. It's just that it's a lot of money. I don't know what Croatian salaries are like but I think they are probably a lot less than a DBA would get in UK. I think the setting of charges for conferences is rather akin to the problem IIUG faced when trying to fix a membership fee - which is what led to Informix subsidising IIUG in the first place. If you look at the costs from the viewpoint of some of the people that I knew in Eastern Europe they are getting very low salaries compared to Western Europe and 2000 Euros is a lot of money. It's certainly a lot of money to my employers and to my customers. I do understand that the admin and accommodation costs are high, especially if they use top drawe conference venues but if we want to be an inclusive user group we have to consider that. The fact that there were a few people there from Croatia is not at all surprising. I was very surprised when I found that some of my contacts from Eastern Europe had managed to get to visit one of the Worldwide(America only!) User Group conferences that were run in the Informix days. When I asked them how they afforded it I discovered that the local Informix office had paid a lot towards it. I could never get that confirmed by Informix though. Generally I think the IIUG must look at the issues of how much people can afford to pay for a conference, how far they are prepared to travel, and how often they want to have them. It seems crazy to me that we have IBM Information on Demand in the same month as IIUG/IDUG in Europe. Surely that is going to dilute the attendance at the IDUG/IIUG event as it doesn't cost as much to fly to Anaheim and stay in a non-conference hotel as it would to fly to Vienna. I know I've checked this out thoroughly. I could have got a fly-drive package to Anaheim for less than I could get a similar package to Vienna. And I would certainly have preferred to go to the IBM event rather than an IIUG/IDUG event. And not all people can get the time away from work either. I could have used holiday if I could have borne the cost myself, but in the end financial factors swayed my decision not to go to either event. Regards Malcolm -----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of scottishpoet Sent: 06 October 2006 16:07 To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,The Next Informix IDS Release... As this is an IIUG run event, who do people believe should "pay"? This is an IDUG / IIUG run event IIUG board of directors selected the presenters and the topics , not IBM. IBM has provided a host of speakers for Informix, many more than it has provided for DB2. Would IBM receive less critisism for this event if it did not provide any support at all? Davorin, you say there was 1 Informix "user" there from the whole country.. There were about 4 Croatia flags around the conference. How many DB2 LUW and DB2 z/OS clients are there in Croatia? Would 3 people from that client base be a significantly higher proportion? Has this same cost restricted the DB2 attendance at this event as well as the Informix attendance? Davorin Kremenjas wrote: > Since your previous post was a reaction to mine, I feel I should > comment some more... > > > Actually, if you actually read my post you would have noticed that I > > was blasting people for the following: 1. Moaning that they had to > > pay for education; 2. Moaning that the IIUG never did anything in > > Europe and then moaning for what they did do when they did it; > > 3. Moaning that there was always something wrong with the education > > offered by the IIUG and other local user groups yet not having the > > gumption to get involved and contribute something themselves. > > I couldn't agree more. I saw an agenda, the speakers' names, I'm sure > it will be a great conference, and finally one in Europe. Of course > that such an education event should be paid for. Of course moaning > serves no purpose at all. > > Now, here is the irony: Vienna is only a few hours drive from > Croatia's capital, Zagreb, where the most of the Informix users in > Croatia are. I personally know many people (DBA's mainly) who wanted > to attend. The truth is that only one person (in the whole country) > was able to go. One and only reason - the price. That's not moaning, > that's dissapointment. To quote TBP, if the price was 500 Euros at > least few more people would go, for the same net price. > None of them go to conferences for drinks and food, they do that on weekend > barbecues at home :-) > > Yes, finally one great IIUG conference in Europe, almost a walking > distance away, and we still can't go... _______________________________________________ Informix-list mailing list Informix-list@iiug.org http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list

> I don't think our croatian friend was objecting to having to pay. It's just > that it's a lot of money. I don't know what Croatian salaries are like but > I think they are probably a lot less than a DBA would get in UK. Sorry maybe I wasn't as clear as I hoped. I guess the price was set by IDUG and IIUG couldn't really say to the Informix clients it is $500 if IDUG charged $2000. I believe IIUG offered higher discounts for early bookers but that may be wrong. Interesting to see that few people even took those discounts up. Hence my question if it was as unaffordable for the DB2 clients and its not just an IIUG problem

"scottishpoet" <dryburghj@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1160157242.568405.142830@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > >> I don't think our croatian friend was objecting to having to pay. It's >> just >> that it's a lot of money. I don't know what Croatian salaries are like >> but >> I think they are probably a lot less than a DBA would get in UK. > > Sorry maybe I wasn't as clear as I hoped. > > I guess the price was set by IDUG and IIUG couldn't really say to the > Informix clients it is $500 if IDUG charged $2000. I believe IIUG > offered higher discounts for early bookers but that may be wrong. > Interesting to see that few people even took those discounts up. > > Hence my question if it was as unaffordable for the DB2 clients and its > not just an IIUG problem A discount of 235 euros (about 12%) was offered for early bookers. If one were to be picky, which I never am,one might point out that the 235 Euro discount was trumpeted in enormous type in many mails, whereas you had to click through about 5 links to find out what was the actual registration price. Almost as if they were embarrassed about the price, but perhaps that's just a style of marketing which Europeans are unused to ... Very good point about the same price being applied to DB2 users. My hunch would be that it comes down to the much more secure feeling that DB2 users have about IBM's commitment to their product, through extensive advertising, marketing etc. I'm afraid that end of the day all roads lead back to this point.

"malcolm weallans" <malcolm.iiug@btopenworld.com> wrote in message news:mailman.74.1160152453.29455.informix-list@iiug.org... > John, > I don't think our croatian friend was objecting to having to pay. It's > just > that it's a lot of money. I don't know what Croatian salaries are like > but > I think they are probably a lot less than a DBA would get in UK. Exactly. I wish I said these few sentences as clear as you did, it would cause much less confusion.

I also agree with Malcolm, however it is very very complex to set a system like that. what would be the reference? UK having an index of 100? Belgium 80? Croatia 30? France (well you need to pay them to make them move)... Another comment was that there are less tracks for Informix than DB2, so should we price proportionnally? IIUG can take all those positive and constructive ideas and propose some changes to IDUG. jgp On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:11:54 +0200, Davorin Kremenjas wrote > "malcolm weallans" <malcolm.iiug@btopenworld.com> wrote in message > news:mailman.74.1160152453.29455.informix-list@iiug.org... > > John, > > I don't think our croatian friend was objecting to having to pay. It's > > just > > that it's a lot of money. I don't know what Croatian salaries are like > > but > > I think they are probably a lot less than a DBA would get in UK. > > Exactly. > I wish I said these few sentences as clear as you did, it would > cause much less confusion. > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list -- jgp

Davorin Kremenjas wrote: > "malcolm weallans" <malcolm.iiug@btopenworld.com> wrote in message > news:mailman.74.1160152453.29455.informix-list@iiug.org... > > John, > > I don't think our croatian friend was objecting to having to pay. It's > > just > > that it's a lot of money. I don't know what Croatian salaries are like > > but > > I think they are probably a lot less than a DBA would get in UK. > > Exactly. > I wish I said these few sentences as clear as you did, it would cause much > less confusion. if the attendance had been high from the Informix community in the Uk and low from Croatia this may explain why As the attendance was just as low from the UK...