Re: New Era, VB, Delphi, PB

Mark D. Stock wrote: > > Tim Schaefer wrote: > > > Mark D. Stock wrote: > > > Look, if you don't want to use NewEra just yet and you want to stick to > > > good old 4GL, then just come right out and say it Tim. :-) > > > > > Actually, I'm over 4GL, have been for quite some time. It was a great > > product and occasionally I still use it. I've been having more fun with > > ESQL/C, Java, and some design work of late. > > That's interesting. So do you think 4GL is dead? Well, if we were to use the postings here in c.d.i. as a measure of what people are using, I would say that 4GL is still being used, and continues to be sold. But like some variants of human languages, yes, I would say it is indeed dead. New Era has taken an important approach to the language, giving it the transition it would need if the 4GL model still applies. Today we can now skip this model, move right to Java, and say bye-bye to 4GL. I think an important transition product that must come soon would be a 4GL-to-Java tool. I started working on one, but having to work for a living I've not finished mine. The 4GL model can be applied to a certain degree with Java, but in a lot of ways it is no longer necessary, as Java offers the flexibility of a 3GL with the coolness of a GUI 4gl. You'll notice much of the postings here are about trying to make 4GL do things it was not originally intended to do. The same thing is happening with New Era. Hats off to the New Era team, as they've done a great effort, but look at the long term investment and see if New Era really applies. These apps will require care and feeding. Make sure you're prepared to do that. [...] > > Well, I see a varied mix NOW, and I think it'll continue. Even Informix is > > buying an eclectic mix of products, putting their name on it, and offering > > it. You almost need a scorecard. > > Okay, so USA is different to RSA, point made (again :). Informix has always > done that. In fact, if you look at their history, they should be selling > off NewEra (their only GUI development tool) any moment now. ;-) > Well, given the sales effort of New Era, it would be a big boo-boo to tell everyone that bought it, that, hey, sorry, we're moving on now. It's just as risky with other vendors' products, so Informix is not alone in this--which is precisely why I'm avoiding New Era. It's a great product, but not something I see for the long-term investment. > > > It may be just my warped sense of the universe, but to me the whole > > > industry has come full circle over the last ten years. With a return now > > > to host-centric systems with dumb or thin clients, running 3GL's like > > > Java. >8-) > > > > Yes, we're back to terminal based sytems with one major difference. If > > the Network Computer becomes a reality, think about this: > > If the server crashes on a character-based system, the user could not work. > > If the server crashes on an NC, the user could theoretically continue to > > work, depending on the app because the app is LOCAL to the terminal. This > > is a profound difference to the server-centric character-based systems. > > Not much when you consider the intended concept of the 'application' being > simply a browser. The only concept that will keep a browser running is > being able to have inteligence about what to do and where to go if the > server or link goes down. > Oh, but the browser-only thing is not what NC is about. Keep in mind the hardware is hosting the Java O/S. This means apps can take whatever form you need, just like the past, but actually quite UNLIKE the past. I wouldn't be too surprised to see INFORMIX come out with their own O/S in the near future. If you think about it, isn't the managing of a raw partion something a DISK OPERATING SYSTEM does? How much more of an effort would it be to bundle in the remaining O/S elements? Or an API right on top Java? I'm sure this is coming. > > I think a lot of managers here in the states long for the day when their > > workers are not downloading shareware GUI apps for their computers. They > > will have all their favorite PC apps running on a GUI terminal, only it > > won't be Xterm, or a fat-client app it'll be a GUI app they could run on a > > PC. And they'll actually be WORKING, a concept lost in a lot of companies. > > Microsloth is not too happy about Java and NC. Already there's enough Java > > out there to make a PC look silly. ActiveX? Ha! Why bother??? > > Oh sure, but it's the same game, different rules. If Microbucks can't play > with the new rules, then I'm happy for them :-)) > Microsoft is indeed showing its' true colors, and we are actually now going to go through a severe partitioning in the industry again, as the MS-camps and non-MS-camps begin to separate. I would love to see a Java terminal for the home, with a fiber optic cable, and maybe a small disk drive. Just like a telephone. I've got a digital sattelite dish, all it needs is a net connection... > <Soapbox hastily converted into gallows by angry mob, who then pull the lev..> > > Cheers, > -- > > Mark. > > +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > |Mark D. Stock - The West Solutions Group http://www.west.co.za | > | The Informix FAQ is at http://www.iiug.org | > |mailto:marks@west.co.za +------------------------------------------------+ > |Tel: +27 11 803 2151 |If it doesn't work... force it! | > |Fax: +27 11 803 2189 |If it breaks... it needed replacing anyway! | > |Cell: +27 83 250 2325 |Well, that's how I code anyway! | > +------------------------+------------------------------------------------+ <Time-traveling software transports preacher to next episode right as lever is pulled> :-) -- Tim Schaefer \\\\|// tschaefe@mindspring.com (6 6) ------------------------oOOo---( )---o00o--------- Liberty: http://www.lp.org Informix: http://www.iiug.org --------------------------------------------------