Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, TheNextInformix IDS Release...
Not a technical problem thread at all — it's an opinion/flame exchange about Informix's future under IBM. A long-time Informix developer ("Double Echo") argues the product is effectively dead and unmarketed, dismissing an IBM employee's blog as gossip and demanding hard numbers plus a full, non-crippled evaluation download rather than a "lite" edition; Martin Fuerderer urges him to keep an open mind. The thread drifts into jokes about Missouri and ends with no technical issue raised and no resolution.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
E.g. http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/gbowerman?entry=ids_marketing But of course it will not matter to DE, because it is only a blog of an IBMer, etc. ;) And DE has made his (pre-mature) judgement and he will not be convinced otherwise by any current or future facts. ;-) Besides, such change of opinion would require to admit that one was wrong before, which can be a difficult thing to do. On a personal level it is probably more difficult than to migrate a database or application from one platform to another on the technical level. Often it is better to keep an open mind - to not close the door for reasonable decision making based on the right facts of the current time. Foregone conclusions will always limit your choices later. Once in the corner where one has put oneself it can be very difficult to get out again. :) Cheers, Martin -- informix-list-bounces@iiug.org wrote on 10.10.2006 18:25:34: > Martin Fuerderer wrote: > > DE wrote: > >> I _had_ used Informix since 1987, first with CISAM, then 4GL. Tons of > >> code, billable, and smart business solutions. But in going through the > >> seven stages of grief, I'm now really past Informix, at least from a > >> career perspective. Never ever will I bet on that horse again for my > >> family's sake as well as my own. I haven't moved on with the idea that > >> if the product were given a decent chance it would be quite competitive. > > > > As you will never bet on informix again, you have bet on different horses? > > > > Other products continue to feed my family, Informix does not. I barely > note it on my resume anymore. > > > And that's why you have to spend so much energy in this forum (news > > group) to make sure that Informix will never get near winning > > again, because that would mean you could loose your current bets? > > > > I hope it does succeed, but I'm convinced it will not. It is tragic. > There seems to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Informix will > never be anything more than just a "legacy" product, as only a handful > of customers are using it. But I don't think I spend that much energy > in this newsgroup, it only looks that way because most of the people > here that post anything, don't go beyond one or two sentences. > > > If Informix would be as dead as you pronounce it, why would you then > > again and again have to state the obvious with so much effort? > > It is no effort to continue living with a bad habit. And as long as the > bandwidth is unlimited, I can say whatever I want. Besides, if you see > the denial of reality here, it is astonishing. It's difficult not to > speak up. > > > In your place I wouldn't even bother anymore. The effort that you put > > in here somehow contradicts what you seem so convinced of. > > > I couldn't agree more. It is a huge contradiction, a conflict in my > life. :-) > > > > With what idea have you then moved on? > > I guess your last sentence above doesn't really make a lot of sense. > > You wanted to say "I hadn't moved on with ..."? > > Sometimes a single letter makes quite a difference ... ;) > > > > Cheers, > > Martin > > -- > > > > You are so correct. As I stated, it's like quitting smoking. You want > to stop but it's very very difficult. You know it's bad for you, it has > no redeeming quality and yet you smoke anyway. Informix is a bad habit > for me, I don't get any benefits out of it, yet I hope against hope that > somebody with some competence inside IBM will do the right thing and market this > product. But I know it's a lost cause. > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
Martin Fuerderer wrote: > E.g. > http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/gbowerman?entry=ids_marketing > > But of course it will not matter to DE, because it is only a > blog of an IBMer, etc. ;) > Well, partially true. The blog has a lot of gossip, not much fact. "Secret secret!, I can't say anything, shhhhhhh!". Show me some facts. > And DE has made his (pre-mature) judgement and he will not be > convinced otherwise by any current or future facts. ;-) > Facts always sway me, gossip does not. Let's see Informix by the numbers. I'm from Missouri, the Show-Me state. So Show Me. > Besides, such change of opinion would require to admit that one > was wrong before, which can be a difficult thing to do. On a personal > level it is probably more difficult than to migrate a database or > application from one platform to another on the technical level. > You made two assertions. One, you're wrong about admitting I'm wrong. PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG. IBM I AM BEGGING YOU TO PROVE ME WRONG. Two, I have migrated databases several times for a lot of companies and worked with most major databases, except Oracle, but even with Oracle I've had to admin systems where it was running, and I was the sys admin not the dba. I use SQLServer on a frequent basis, MySQL on a daily basis, and yes DB2. Set up DB2 HA on Windows. Set up DB2 cluster on Linux. Used and was DBA for XPS, IDS. Wrote tons of C,4GL. Now I write only Perl and PHP. Lots of Linux kernel management too. > Often it is better to keep an open mind - to not close the door > for reasonable decision making based on the right facts of the > current time. Foregone conclusions will always limit your choices > later. Once in the corner where one has put oneself it can be very > difficult to get out again. :) > True dat. My family paid a heavy price for my staying too long with Informix before it died. But what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. The market will help you to have an open mind. I've gone on to learn a lot about just about every major database out there, and know the differences in features. So I think if there was or is anyone who keeps an open mind here in c.d.i., it is me. I had a lot of skin in the Informix game in the past, not going to make that mistake again until it shows itself as a winner, not a wimpy loser. You want an open mind, try thinking about what Informix looks like to the rest of the market. Try to imagine your circle of co-workers not having a clue what Informix is. Try to imagine management not knowing what Informix is. Then you will begin to understand my world. Get that non-crippled download out there so I can evaluate the product, and I'll join the party. I'm not going to play with something diddled with by the goddam IIUG or a "lite" version. And by the way, I didn't join the Oracle users' group or the MySQL users group and both of these products seem to be doing fine without my participation or volunteer effort. Cheers <raising pint beer glass> DE > Cheers, > Martin > -- >
It's far too obvious you don't live in Missouri... :-) > -----Original Message----- > From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- > bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Double Echo > Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 14:58 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand > 2006,TheNextInformix IDS Release... > > Martin Fuerderer wrote: > > E.g. > > > http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/gbowerman?entry=ids_marketing > > > > But of course it will not matter to DE, because it is only a > > blog of an IBMer, etc. ;) > > > > Well, partially true. The blog has a lot of gossip, not much fact. > "Secret secret!, I can't say anything, shhhhhhh!". Show me some > facts. > > > And DE has made his (pre-mature) judgement and he will not be > > convinced otherwise by any current or future facts. ;-) > > > > Facts always sway me, gossip does not. Let's see Informix by the > numbers. I'm from Missouri, the Show-Me state. So Show Me. > > > Besides, such change of opinion would require to admit that one > > was wrong before, which can be a difficult thing to do. On a personal > > level it is probably more difficult than to migrate a database or > > application from one platform to another on the technical level. > > > > You made two assertions. One, you're wrong about admitting I'm wrong. > PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG. IBM I AM BEGGING YOU TO PROVE ME WRONG. > > Two, I have migrated databases several times for a lot of companies > and worked with most major databases, except Oracle, but even with > Oracle I've had to admin systems where it was running, and I was the > sys admin not the dba. I use SQLServer on a frequent basis, MySQL > on a daily basis, and yes DB2. Set up DB2 HA on Windows. Set up DB2 > cluster on Linux. Used and was DBA for XPS, IDS. Wrote tons of C,4GL. > Now I write only Perl and PHP. Lots of Linux kernel management too. > > > Often it is better to keep an open mind - to not close the door > > for reasonable decision making based on the right facts of the > > current time. Foregone conclusions will always limit your choices > > later. Once in the corner where one has put oneself it can be very > > difficult to get out again. :) > > > > True dat. My family paid a heavy price for my staying too long with > Informix before it died. But what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. > The market will help you to have an open mind. > > I've gone on to learn a lot about just about every major database > out there, and know the differences in features. So I think if there > was or is anyone who keeps an open mind here in c.d.i., it is me. I > had a lot of skin in the Informix game in the past, not going to make > that mistake again until it shows itself as a winner, not a wimpy > loser. > > You want an open mind, try thinking about what Informix looks like to > the rest of the market. Try to imagine your circle of co-workers > not having a clue what Informix is. Try to imagine management not > knowing what Informix is. Then you will begin to understand my > world. > > Get that non-crippled download out there so I can evaluate the product, > and I'll join the party. I'm not going to play with something diddled > with by the goddam IIUG or a "lite" version. And by the way, I didn't > join the Oracle users' group or the MySQL users group and both of these > products seem to be doing fine without my participation or volunteer > effort. > > Cheers <raising pint beer glass> > > DE > > > > Cheers, > > Martin > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
Jean Georges Perrin wrote: > It's far too obvious you don't live in Missouri... :-) I didn't say I lived in Missouri, I said I was _from_ Missouri. And why is it "far too obvious I don't live in Missouri" ? Sorry, I don't get your meaning.
JGP likes to trace mail headers in his spare time! Sorry, JGP! On Oct 11, 2006, at 1:50 PM, Double Echo wrote: > Jean Georges Perrin wrote: >> It's far too obvious you don't live in Missouri... :-) > > I didn't say I lived in Missouri, I said I was _from_ Missouri. > > And why is it "far too obvious I don't live in Missouri" ? Sorry, > I don't get your meaning. > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
I live in Missouri and like it.... --- Double Echo <doubleecho@your.com> wrote: > Jean Georges Perrin wrote: > > It's far too obvious you don't live in Missouri... > :-) > > I didn't say I lived in Missouri, I said I was > _from_ Missouri. > > And why is it "far too obvious I don't live in > Missouri" ? Sorry, I don't get your meaning. > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com