Re: Does anyone read the e-mails from [mailto:db2@news.db2mag.com]

Funny kinda yet stupid video...what a waste of time that was. Get back to the basics....Pens pencils tshirts coffee-cups and of course if you're in california you definitely need hoodies. Another thing IBM might try is actually having a real IBM developer program that has real developers promoting Informix ( besides the goddam IIUG ) with web pages that actually have something to click on besides useless fluff. IBM is just staffed with stupid people, can't be any other explanation for it. Serge Rielau wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> Regarding viral marketing, ... > Well, don't let IBM near anything with viral marketing. You would regret > it.... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmtXaZ_HhBg&feature=related >

InDeep wrote: > IBM is just staffed with stupid people, can't be any other > explanation for it. > Yep! :o> So, what sort of thing would you like to see in these web pages then? -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

"GET YOUR FREE [T=SHIRT|COFFEE CUP|PEN|PENCIL|HOODIE] WHEN YOU SIGN UP FOR OUR DEVELOPER PROGRAM' 'BUY IDS GEAR! SHOW YOUR PRIDE! CLICK HERE--->' 'GET THE FULL NO-TIMEBOMB ENTERPRISE EDITION OF IDS NOW! DOWNLOAD -- CLICK HERE--->' 'READ OUR BLOGS ON DATA BASE ADMIN & TUNING -- CLICK HERE--->' 'READ OUR BLOGS ON USING IDS WITH [PHP|PYTHON|PERL|JAVA] CLICK HERE --->' That should be enough to get started. Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> IBM is just staffed with stupid people, can't be any other >> explanation for it. >> > Yep! :o> > > So, what sort of thing would you like to see in these web pages then? >

InDeep wrote: > 'GET THE FULL NO-TIMEBOMB ENTERPRISE EDITION OF IDS NOW! DOWNLOAD -- CLICK HERE--->' > > I grok all the rest, but why that? As far as I know, the DE gives you everything that EE does, but is limited to the number of users. Why isn't that enough? -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

Developers need ALL the features working so they can test and learn as if it were ready for production, just like Oracle. I don't want to have to re-install the thing just to make it really usable. It's one of those things that if I have to explain it to you, then you obviously don't understand how _real_ viral marketing works with data bases. The best way to viral market Informix is to get the real deal in the hands of technology people so they can use it, evaluate it, and speak with authority on its merits. Reading brochures and white papers are not enough, and neither is a crippled version. IBM can work a true-up on licensing just like other vendors do if the installation goes into production. Viral marketing is not about producing stupid videos, its about spreading the product message out in tangible ways that keeps YOUR product in the minds of your customers. In Viral-Marketing 1.0, that meant evaluation software, coffee-cups, t-shirts, pens, pencils, and user group meetings enticed with freebies and other give-aways. MySQL is the best example of DB Viral Marketing. Success requires no explanation, failure permits no alibis. -ID- Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> 'GET THE FULL NO-TIMEBOMB ENTERPRISE EDITION OF IDS NOW! DOWNLOAD -- >> CLICK HERE--->' >> >> > > I grok all the rest, but why that? As far as I know, the DE gives you > everything that EE does, but is limited to the number of users. Why > isn't that enough? >

InDeep wrote: > Developers need ALL the features working so they can test and learn > as if it were ready for production, just like Oracle. I don't want > to have to re-install the thing just to make it really usable. It's > one of those things that if I have to explain it to you, then you > obviously don't understand how _real_ viral marketing works with data > bases. The best way to viral market Informix is to get the real deal > in the hands of technology people so they can use it, evaluate it, and > speak with authority on its merits. Reading brochures and white papers > are not enough, and neither is a crippled version. > But it's not a crippled version: the only restrictions are around how many people can use it, everything else is there. Why isn't that good enough? I'm sure there's another fundamental disconnect here, which is that IBM has PartnerWorld, where registered partners, such as ISV's, can download every single piece of IBM's software for free. And some not-too-bad (and some bad) training, also for free. And doubtlessly all sorts of other exciting things. Are you on PartnerWorld? IBM is never going to be hip and swinging like open source companies are. If you're expecting it to fellate you while you're downloading, it's not going to happen. But all that shit is there, it's just horrible to use like everything else on IBM's website. -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

> From: indeep@indeep.com > Subject: Re: Does anyone read the e-mails from [mailto:db2@news.db2mag.com] > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:32:18 -0700 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > IBM can work a true-up on licensing just like other vendors do if the > installation goes into production. > No, they can't. Sometimes "truing" up a customer can get very ugly and very messy. Putting a full working copy out there can be problematic. Oh I do agree that you should be able to get a copy as a member of a developer community and of course you are willing to pay a nominal fee for joining the community. (Just to cover the costs of keeping tabs on your to see what you're doing with the product.) > Viral marketing is not about producing stupid videos, its about spreading > the product message out in tangible ways that keeps YOUR product in the > minds of your customers. In Viral-Marketing 1.0, that meant evaluation > software, coffee-cups, t-shirts, pens, pencils, and user group meetings > enticed with freebies and other give-aways. MySQL is the best example > of DB Viral Marketing. Success requires no explanation, failure permits > no alibis. > > -ID- > Uhm no. Viral marketing isn't what you described. You're pretty much describing marketing in general. Viral marketing means that you go out, spend some dollars on some marketing event and then word of mouth keeps the brand in the public eye. Doing a YouTube vid isn't viral unless your vid causes people to talk about your brand and get others to view the vid and tell their friends and/or the press picks up on it. An example: The Obama Girl YouTube vids. Marketing dollars were spent on making the vid. Viral because the news of the vid spread, first, by word of mouth then by the press. The momentum of the vid far exceeded the budget spent on making the vid in the first place. So if you spent 10K on making a vid, and then got many minutes of free air time on the mainstream press, which in turn gets you more hits, which in turn gets you more press... you've got a growing cycle and the money was well spent. That's viral marketing. If you want to look at mySQL, its viral because it happened to be at the right place at the right time. I'm not going to get in to LAMP and the press which got more users, more press , etc .. but you knew this. Can you do this with IDS? Maybe, but IBM isn't willing to seed it. -G _________________________________________________________________ Got Game? Win Prizes in the Windows Live Hotmail Mobile Summer Games Trivia Contest http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergames?ocid=TXT_TAGHM

Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > > > From: indeep@indeep.com > > Subject: Re: Does anyone read the e-mails from > [mailto:db2@news.db2mag.com] > > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:32:18 -0700 > > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > > IBM can work a true-up on licensing just like other vendors do if the > > installation goes into production. > > > No, they can't. Sometimes "truing" up a customer can get very ugly and > very messy. > Putting a full working copy out there can be problematic. > Go away. > Oh I do agree that you should be able to get a copy as a member of a > developer community and of course you are willing to pay a nominal fee > for joining the community. (Just to cover the costs of keeping tabs on > your to see what you're doing with the product.) > Yeah I can see a nominal fee thing too. Like maybe $99 USD tops. > > Viral marketing is not about producing stupid videos, its about spreading > > the product message out in tangible ways that keeps YOUR product in the > > minds of your customers. In Viral-Marketing 1.0, that meant evaluation > > software, coffee-cups, t-shirts, pens, pencils, and user group meetings > > enticed with freebies and other give-aways. MySQL is the best example > > of DB Viral Marketing. Success requires no explanation, failure permits > > no alibis. > > > > -ID- > > > Uhm no. > Viral marketing isn't what you described. > You're pretty much describing marketing in general. > Uhm, you seem to contradict and agree with me later on in your statements. Thanks! I know you want to disagree for the sake of disagreement. > Viral marketing means that you go out, spend some dollars on some > marketing event and then word of mouth keeps the brand in the public eye. > One form of it. > Doing a YouTube vid isn't viral unless your vid causes people to talk > about your brand and get others to view the vid and tell their friends > and/or the press picks up on it. > > An example: The Obama Girl YouTube vids. > > Marketing dollars were spent on making the vid. > Viral because the news of the vid spread, first, by word of mouth then > by the press. The momentum of the vid far exceeded the budget spent on > making the vid in the first place. > > So if you spent 10K on making a vid, and then got many minutes of free > air time on the mainstream press, which in turn gets you more hits, > which in turn gets you more press... you've got a growing cycle and the > money was well spent. > > That's viral marketing. > Downloading and installing the product and telling your boss about how fucking fast and simple IDS is is also viral. Wearing a t-shirt with the brand, or a coffee-cup with the logo sitting on the desk, also viral marketing. > If you want to look at mySQL, its viral because it happened to be at the > right place at the right time. I'm not going to get in to LAMP and the > press which got more users, more press , etc .. but you knew this. > > Can you do this with IDS? Maybe, but IBM isn't willing to seed it. > Concessions to your disagreement which actually ended up agreeing with me. Thanks! > > -G > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Got Game? Win Prizes in the Windows Live Hotmail Mobile Summer Games > Trivia Contest Find out how. > <http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergames?ocid=TXT_TAGHM>;

I don't want to spend $795 USD to get software I should be able to get for zero out-of-pocket when I can go to Oracle and get all I want for zero cost. Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> Developers need ALL the features working so they can test and learn >> as if it were ready for production, just like Oracle. I don't want >> to have to re-install the thing just to make it really usable. It's >> one of those things that if I have to explain it to you, then you >> obviously don't understand how _real_ viral marketing works with data >> bases. The best way to viral market Informix is to get the real deal >> in the hands of technology people so they can use it, evaluate it, and >> speak with authority on its merits. Reading brochures and white papers >> are not enough, and neither is a crippled version. >> > But it's not a crippled version: the only restrictions are around how > many people can use it, everything else is there. Why isn't that good > enough? > If you need to ask these kinds of questions then you don't understand how developers think or how to market the product. > I'm sure there's another fundamental disconnect here, which is that IBM > has PartnerWorld, where registered partners, such as ISV's, can download > every single piece of IBM's software for free. And some not-too-bad (and > some bad) training, also for free. And doubtlessly all sorts of other > exciting things. Are you on PartnerWorld? > Maybe as a developer I don't want to have to sign up for fucking PartnerWorld. > IBM is never going to be hip and swinging like open source companies > are. If you're expecting it to fellate you while you're downloading, > it's not going to happen. But all that shit is there, it's just horrible > to use like everything else on IBM's website. >

InDeep wrote: > I don't want to spend $795 USD to get software I should be able to > get for zero out-of-pocket when I can go to Oracle and get all I > want for zero cost. > That's a different discussion. As far as IBM is concerned, they offer a program that does exactly what you want, and they're not exactly making a profit out of it. Does Oracle offer you free access to hardware around the world, benchmarking facilities (yes, I know!) and the ability to use their site facilities, all for free? IBM includes all that and more in Partner World. You're looking at a very narrow perspective of "I want a commercial database for free." Perhaps you could take a look at a bigger picture yourself, I don't know. > If you need to ask these kinds of questions then you don't understand > how developers think or how to market the product. > You're right, I know nothing. I've never been a developer, myself. I certainly haven't a clue about marketing, either. So how about you explain it to me, rather than just dismissing my question? >> I'm sure there's another fundamental disconnect here, which is that IBM >> has PartnerWorld, where registered partners, such as ISV's, can download >> every single piece of IBM's software for free. And some not-too-bad (and >> some bad) training, also for free. And doubtlessly all sorts of other >> exciting things. Are you on PartnerWorld? >> > Maybe as a developer I don't want to have to sign up for fucking PartnerWorld. > What do you think is easier: you signing up for Partner World, or getting the whole of IBM software group to change the way it works? Disclaimer: I haven't signed up for PartnerWorld myself, because it's too hideous for words. But then I'm not bitching about IBM not offering PartnerWorld. :o) -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

> From: indeep@indeep.com > Subject: Re: Does anyone read the e-mails from [mailto:db2@news.db2mag.com] > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 10:24:43 -0700 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > > > > > > From: indeep@indeep.com > > > Subject: Re: Does anyone read the e-mails from > > [mailto:db2@news.db2mag.com] > > > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:32:18 -0700 > > > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > > > > IBM can work a true-up on licensing just like other vendors do if the > > > installation goes into production. > > > > > No, they can't. Sometimes "truing" up a customer can get very ugly and > > very messy. > > Putting a full working copy out there can be problematic. > > > > Go away. > Oh you've never had to deal with a customer regarding a true up. Not a lot of fun for anyone. And like I said, it *can* get very ugly. Ever see a customer literally toss the IBM account team on the street? Oh if you're not an IBMer it can be fun to watch. > > Oh I do agree that you should be able to get a copy as a member of a > > developer community and of course you are willing to pay a nominal fee > > for joining the community. (Just to cover the costs of keeping tabs on > > your to see what you're doing with the product.) > > > > Yeah I can see a nominal fee thing too. Like maybe $99 USD tops. > Ah, Now we are getting somewhere. Its not that there exists a developers program, but that you don't like the price of the developers program. You're only interested in IDS and not all of SWG's products. I'm not sure if the current program covers all of the Rational products as well as the Websphere products, but the value vs the cost is pretty good. Look, I'll bash IBM where they do things that don't make sense. But they *do* have a developers program, and the price point for the value that they offer is really quite good. (If you want to utilize more than just IDS.) But I'll go out on a limb. Even $1,000 for a full blown copy of IDS for my own internal development platform is still a great investment. Here you are talking about how much money you're making from doing Oracle, and yet you aren't willing to pony up cash for a development license? Please tell me your not married and your wife is constantly spending you in to the poor house. (Cause that's my line). I'm going to skip the stuff on viral because you missed the point of viral. -G _________________________________________________________________ Your PC, mobile phone, and online services work together like never before. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108587394/direct/01/

"Obnoxio The Clown" <obnoxio@serendipita.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1480.1218041133.20610.informix-list@iiug.org... > I'm sure there's another fundamental disconnect here, which is that IBM > has PartnerWorld, where registered partners, such as ISV's, can download > every single piece of IBM's software for free. Er, actually you have to pay "US$2,000", at some Alice-in-Wonderland exchange rate that makes it about US$3,000, for that level of access.

"InDeep" <indeep@indeep.com> wrote in message news:E7lmk.49$jv.12@fe199.usenetserver.com... >I don't want to spend $795 USD to get software I should be able to > get for zero out-of-pocket when I can go to Oracle and get all I > want for zero cost. Amen.

Is IDS the only thing you 'pay' for? I pay for my own training, books, etc. for Oracle, Zend, other vendors. The last thing I need is a kick in the crotch from a DB vendor that I have to pay for something I will ultimately help them sell more of. IBM isn't really very smart about this. The only book they seem to have on Informix is Carlton's, who seems to be the only author they want to work with. The whole thing is really upside down. One book on IDS, a Redbook or two, and that's it. Not very bright on the marketing. I need a full-blown IDS that I get to use and learn on. When that becomes available I'll be one of Informix's biggest advocates. Until then I'll continue to maintain that IBM is filled with sychophants and dumbshits running things. Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > > > From: indeep@indeep.com > > Subject: Re: Does anyone read the e-mails from > [mailto:db2@news.db2mag.com] > > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 10:24:43 -0700 > > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > > > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: indeep@indeep.com > > > > Subject: Re: Does anyone read the e-mails from > > > [mailto:db2@news.db2mag.com] > > > > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:32:18 -0700 > > > > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > > > > > > IBM can work a true-up on licensing just like other vendors do if the > > > > installation goes into production. > > > > > > > No, they can't. Sometimes "truing" up a customer can get very ugly and > > > very messy. > > > Putting a full working copy out there can be problematic. > > > > > > > Go away. > > > Oh you've never had to deal with a customer regarding a true up. > Not a lot of fun for anyone. And like I said, it *can* get very ugly. > Ever see a customer literally toss the IBM account team on the street? > Oh if you're not an IBMer it can be fun to watch. > > > > Oh I do agree that you should be able to get a copy as a member of a > > > developer community and of course you are willing to pay a nominal fee > > > for joining the community. (Just to cover the costs of keeping tabs on > > > your to see what you're doing with the product.) > > > > > > > Yeah I can see a nominal fee thing too. Like maybe $99 USD tops. > > > Ah, > Now we are getting somewhere. > Its not that there exists a developers program, but that you don't like > the price of the developers program. > You're only interested in IDS and not all of SWG's products. > > I'm not sure if the current program covers all of the Rational products > as well as the Websphere products, but > the value vs the cost is pretty good. > > Look, I'll bash IBM where they do things that don't make sense. > But they *do* have a developers program, and the price point for the > value that they offer is really quite good. > (If you want to utilize more than just IDS.) > > But I'll go out on a limb. Even $1,000 for a full blown copy of IDS for > my own internal development platform is still a great investment. > Here you are talking about how much money you're making from doing > Oracle, and yet you aren't willing to pony up cash for a development > license? Please tell me your not married and your wife is constantly > spending you in to the poor house. (Cause that's my line). > > I'm going to skip the stuff on viral because you missed the point of viral. > > -G > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Your PC, mobile phone, and online services work together like never > before. See how Windows' fits your life > <http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108587394/direct/01/>;

InDeep wrote: > Is IDS the only thing you 'pay' for? I pay for my own > training, books, etc. for Oracle, Zend, other vendors. The last > thing I need is a kick in the crotch from a DB vendor that I have > to pay for something I will ultimately help them sell more of. > > I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here: if you sign up to PW, you get a whole bunch of free training, PLUS, if you want to do more conventional training and you sell any IDS, they'll give you back the money you spent on training. In what way is this a kick in the crotch? > IBM isn't really very smart about this. The only book they seem > to have on Informix is Carlton's, who seems to be the only author > they want to work with. What is your obsession with Informix books really about? They're a symbol and, really, they're a symbol of how shit the vendor is at providing a product that is easy to use with that manuals given. Every Informix book out there has sold three copies, because they can't add the kind of real-world value that an Oracle book can. Oracle books tell you: 1. this is how it really works 2. this is what's important out of this bookshelf of information 3. this is how you get it to perform 4. here are another 887,493 books on all the 8122 aspects of Oracle. Informix doesn't have books primarily because Informix doesn't need books. The manuals are great, the product is simple and ... that's it, really. If you had Stephen King gagging to write a book on Informix, what would you have him write about? > The whole thing is really upside down. > One book on IDS, a Redbook or two, and that's it. Not very bright > on the marketing. IBM has 15 years of cruft on other products. Go to the RedBooks site, go have a look at how current all those DB2 and IMS RedBooks are. You'll find the same infuriating ordering, showing ancient books first and things that no-one cares about. It's not that they're crap at marketing IDS, it's that they're crap at marketing everything. I spoke to an IBMer who told me that when he chastised the RedBooks guys for having a "port IDS to DB2" as the very first book out there, and could they pull it. He was told that the RedBooks aren't owned by the people who write them and that he couldn't pull it without, basically, Ambuj saying so. It's not personal, though. It's just the normal consequence of any organisation where process takes precedence over initiative. > I need a full-blown IDS that I get to use and > learn on. FFS, you still haven't told me why the DE isn't good enough. > When that becomes available I'll be one of Informix's > biggest advocates. Until then I'll continue to maintain that IBM > is filled with sychophants and dumbshits running things. > Even if it's still true? :o) -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> Is IDS the only thing you 'pay' for? I pay for my own >> training, books, etc. for Oracle, Zend, other vendors. The last >> thing I need is a kick in the crotch from a DB vendor that I have >> to pay for something I will ultimately help them sell more of. >> >> > I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here: if you sign up to PW, you get > a whole bunch of free training, PLUS, if you want to do more > conventional training and you sell any IDS, they'll give you back the > money you spent on training. In what way is this a kick in the crotch? Sorry, erm, you'll have to provide me a better business case to buy IDS when I can get Oracle for free, and Oracle is better billable because there isn't anyone using IDS. The IDS market needs to be seeded, with developers actually using and endorsing the product. I'm not paying for fucking partnerworld when I have plenty of other things that I already have to pay for, that actually make me money, _and_ I have DBs I don't have to pay for that do make me money. So from my standpoint, IDS isn't enough of a market to pay for, because I'm not going to get anything out of paying for it. Why should I spend money on something, just for the novelty and learning experience? If the market for IDS isn't going anywhere isn't that really throwing my money away? Show me the future of IDS, the roadmap, the marketing, and the business case for IDS and I'll consider it. >> IBM isn't really very smart about this. The only book they seem >> to have on Informix is Carlton's, who seems to be the only author >> they want to work with. > What is your obsession with Informix books really about? They're a > symbol and, really, they're a symbol of how shit the vendor is at > providing a product that is easy to use with that manuals given. Every > Informix book out there has sold three copies, because they can't add > the kind of real-world value that an Oracle book can. Oracle books tell > you: > 1. this is how it really works > 2. this is what's important out of this bookshelf of information > 3. this is how you get it to perform > 4. here are another 887,493 books on all the 8122 aspects of Oracle. > No obsession, just an observation that there is hardly shyte out there for IDS and a truckload for other products. > Informix doesn't have books primarily because Informix doesn't need > books. The manuals are great, the product is simple and ... that's it, > really. > Maybe so, but you can go to a bookstore and find more books on utterly useless crap like Ruby and nothing on IDS, simply nothing. > If you had Stephen King gagging to write a book on Informix, what would > you have him write about? > >> The whole thing is really upside down. >> One book on IDS, a Redbook or two, and that's it. Not very bright >> on the marketing. > IBM has 15 years of cruft on other products. Go to the RedBooks site, go > have a look at how current all those DB2 and IMS RedBooks are. You'll > find the same infuriating ordering, showing ancient books first and > things that no-one cares about. It's not that they're crap at marketing > IDS, it's that they're crap at marketing everything. I spoke to an IBMer > who told me that when he chastised the RedBooks guys for having a "port > IDS to DB2" as the very first book out there, and could they pull it. He > was told that the RedBooks aren't owned by the people who write them and > that he couldn't pull it without, basically, Ambuj saying so. > > It's not personal, though. It's just the normal consequence of any > organisation where process takes precedence over initiative. > >> I need a full-blown IDS that I get to use and >> learn on. > FFS, you still haven't told me why the DE isn't good enough. Tell me why IDS is good enough that I _as a developer_ have to pay for it to get the fully operational version when other vendors are giving it away in the hopes that their stuff will keep you from installing anything else. >> When that becomes available I'll be one of Informix's >> biggest advocates. Until then I'll continue to maintain that IBM >> is filled with sychophants and dumbshits running things. >> > Even if it's still true? :o) > Eh, have to think about it, you have a point.

InDeep wrote: > Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > >> InDeep wrote: >> >>> Is IDS the only thing you 'pay' for? I pay for my own >>> training, books, etc. for Oracle, Zend, other vendors. The last >>> thing I need is a kick in the crotch from a DB vendor that I have >>> to pay for something I will ultimately help them sell more of. >>> >>> >>> >> I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here: if you sign up to PW, you get >> a whole bunch of free training, PLUS, if you want to do more >> conventional training and you sell any IDS, they'll give you back the >> money you spent on training. In what way is this a kick in the crotch? >> > > Sorry, erm, you'll have to provide me a better business case to buy IDS > when I can get Oracle for free, and Oracle is better billable because there > isn't anyone using IDS. The IDS market needs to be seeded, with developers > actually using and endorsing the product. I'm not paying for fucking > partnerworld when I have plenty of other things that I already have to > pay for, that actually make me money, _and_ I have DBs I don't have to pay > for that do make me money. > I don't disagree with you, but from IBM's perspective, they have this enormous juggernaut of how they do things, and you want them to chuck that ALL away for one product that is what, 5% of their SWG revenue, if that? (I'm using 5%, because it's a small number. Frankly, given the variety and amount of software IBM sells, I'd be surprised if it were more than 1%) Yes, IBM is doing things wrong; yes, IBM could be selling a ton of Informix if they just listened to us; yes, they have a different partner model from what you want. Unfortunately, this partner model works for Lotus (where people compete against Microsoft and open source), WebSphere (who also compete against Oracle and open source), Tivoli (who compete against any number of companies), other Information Management products (yadda-yadda) and Rational (who compete against world+dog). So if you got Sam Palmisano's ear for five minutes, what would you tell him that would make him say: "You're right. We've been doing it wrong all these years and all our business partners are wrong. We'll change it immediately." > So from my standpoint, IDS isn't enough of a market to pay for, because I'm > not going to get anything out of paying for it. Why should I spend money > on something, just for the novelty and learning experience? If the market > for IDS isn't going anywhere isn't that really throwing my money away? Show > me the future of IDS, the roadmap, the marketing, and the business case for > IDS and I'll consider it. > Who's showing you the future of Oracle? What roadmap do you want to see? The marketing will never happen to your satisfaction. The business case is the same as it's always been: it just works, it doesn't burden you with hundreds of DBAs and it's fast. And this marketing thing is a big issue. IBM intrinsically believes that the database is a commodity, even though it isn't. So their marketing would probably be something as useful as the codernauts. What's going to change IBM's mind is evidence of people using the database as a differentiator and that's only going to come from the development community. And before your head explodes, yes, I think that's fucked up as well. The problem for IBM is that it is so big that if you doubled IDS sales overnight, Sam probably wouldn't even notice. Hell, if you made a tenfold increase in IDS sales overnight, he probably wouldn't know about it. >> Informix doesn't have books primarily because Informix doesn't need >> books. The manuals are great, the product is simple and ... that's it, >> really. >> >> > Maybe so, but you can go to a bookstore and find more books on utterly > useless crap like Ruby and nothing on IDS, simply nothing. > And pray tell, could you learn comfortably how to use Ruby well enough from the manuals provided to run your business on it? >> >>> I need a full-blown IDS that I get to use and >>> learn on. >>> >> FFS, you still haven't told me why the DE isn't good enough. >> > > Tell me why IDS is good enough that I _as a developer_ have to pay for it > to get the fully operational version when other vendors are giving it away > in the hopes that their stuff will keep you from installing anything else. > You don't. You have a free, un-time-bombed, fully-functional Developer Edition. It does everything, bar run a business. So what's the problem? -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

In article <Swomk.19650$1q.10559@fe198.usenetserver.com>, InDeep says... >Show me the future of IDS, the roadmap, the marketing, and the >business case for IDS and I'll consider it. You don't work with Informix. You last worked with Informix in 2000 for some Florida Gas company. After that you have been doing LAMP gig, some DB2 work and these days Oracle work in Los Angeles. So what are you doing in c.d.i boring all of us to death when the future of informix does not affect you a bit.

On Aug 6, 5:29 pm, Sherlock Holmes <a...@a.com> wrote: > In article <Swomk.19650$1q.10...@fe198.usenetserver.com>, InDeep says... > > >Show me the future of IDS, the roadmap, the marketing, and the > >business case for IDS and I'll consider it. > > You don't work with Informix. You last worked with Informix in 2000 > for some Florida Gas company. After that you have been doing LAMP gig, > some DB2 work and these days Oracle work in Los Angeles. So what are > you doing in c.d.i boring all of us to death when the future of informix > does not affect you a bit. And you seem to be a VB programmer that's in to Pakistani Politics. He has just as much right to air his opinions as you or Mark does. And Mark works for Oracle.

It's the usual personal attack when there is no where to go. I'd work on Informix if there were opportunities, and I'd even promote it if there were any payout for me and my family. Oracle for all its faults pays my bills and provides better than average billable. LAMP too. So please, fuck off and die. IBM should be thanking me 'n Gumpy for even giving a shit about Informix, hell the only other place to go is the IIUG and their camp of IBM sycophants. Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > On Aug 6, 5:29 pm, Sherlock Holmes <a...@a.com> wrote: >> In article <Swomk.19650$1q.10...@fe198.usenetserver.com>, InDeep says... >> >>> Show me the future of IDS, the roadmap, the marketing, and the >>> business case for IDS and I'll consider it. >> You don't work with Informix. You last worked with Informix in 2000 >> for some Florida Gas company. After that you have been doing LAMP gig, >> some DB2 work and these days Oracle work in Los Angeles. So what are >> you doing in c.d.i boring all of us to death when the future of informix >> does not affect you a bit. > > And you seem to be a VB programmer that's in to Pakistani Politics. > > He has just as much right to air his opinions as you or Mark does. > And Mark works for Oracle. >

Ian Michael Gumby wrote: >> He has just as much right to air his opinions as you or Mark does. >> And Mark works for Oracle. >> There's a difference between "works for" and "is employed by"... :o> -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

On Aug 6, 5:45 pm, Obnoxio The Clown <obno...@serendipita.com> wrote: > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > >> He has just as much right to air his opinions as you or Mark does. > >> And Mark works for Oracle. > > There's a difference between "works for" and "is employed by"... :o> > > -- > Cheers, > Obnoxio the Clown > > http://obotheclown.blogspot.com LOL... Now you're an english major? Or are you saying that Mark is employed yet doesn't work for his paycheck? Or you liked being called a tosser by Mark? Silly Clown.

Ian Michael Gumby said: > On Aug 6, 5:45 pm, Obnoxio The Clown <obno...@serendipita.com> wrote: >> Ian Michael Gumby wrote: >> >> He has just as much right to air his opinions as you or Mark does. >> >> And Mark works for Oracle. >> >> There's a difference between "works for" and "is employed by"... :o> >> >> -- >> Cheers, >> Obnoxio the Clown >> >> http://obotheclown.blogspot.com > > LOL... > Now you're an english major? > Or are you saying that Mark is employed yet doesn't work for his > paycheck? > > Or you liked being called a tosser by Mark? > > Silly Clown. <sigh> It's a real pity the Americans don't speak English. -- Bye now, Obnoxio http://obotheclown.blogspot.com/