Mirroring ?
A DBA asked whether moving from hardware mirroring to OS-level (AIX) mirroring with the mirror disks offsite was wise, or whether Informix mirroring would be better. Responses: hardware mirroring historically performed best (~10% over OS mirroring, with Informix mirroring close behind), so keep it or make the sysadmins prove performance first. More importantly, using mirrors as an offsite copy is really a job for HDR replication, which also gives faster failover. On licensing, the old 100 PVU charge for an unused secondary has been dropped, so an HDR/RSS standby not accessed while the primary is up costs nothing, and licences effectively move on failover (SDS is said to need full licensing). No further decision by the original poster is recorded.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
We currently use hardware mirroring ... IDS 11.50xc5 and idx 11.70.fc3xc ... Aix 5.3, 6.1 and 7.1. Our Unix guys are looking to get rid of the HW mirroring .. and go to OS level mirroring ... Mirrored disks will be offsite, actually same disks that are the current HW mirror... Does anyone know of anything abnormal we would need to look at... Would it be better to just do Informix mirroring instead of the OS mirroring ... Peter Logan Senior Database Administrator Phone: 616/878-8309
The last tests I saw was an Informix white paper from 1992 IB that showed hardware mirroring to be about 10% faster than OS level mirroring with Informix mirror a close third. I would keep the hardware mirror if you can. At least force the admin to test the performance and convince you that you will not lose too much of your io headroom. Art On Jun 22, 2012 8:15 AM, "Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com" < Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote: > We currently use hardware mirroring ... IDS 11.50xc5 and idx 11.70.fc3xc > .... Aix 5.3, 6.1 and 7.1. Our Unix guys are looking to get rid of the HW > mirroring .. and go to OS level mirroring ... Mirrored disks will be > offsite, actually same disks that are the current HW mirror... Does > anyone know of anything abnormal we would need to look at... Would it be > better to just do Informix mirroring instead of the OS mirroring ... > > Peter Logan > Senior Database Administrator > Phone: 616/878-8309 > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --14dae93405638bdaad04c30f0478
Thinking this over, it smacks of an attempt to create an offsite backup by using the mirrors. This is a job for HDR, remote disk mirroring. Since the secondary requires only 100 pvu of licenses if it is not being accessed, this is not an expensive solution. The savings on expensive remote mirror hardware like EMC Symetrics will probably pay for the extra pvu licenses plus more reasonably priced locally mirrored disk arrays at both sites. That would double your redundancy as well. Art On Jun 22, 2012 8:15 AM, "Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com" < Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote: > We currently use hardware mirroring ... IDS 11.50xc5 and idx 11.70.fc3xc > .... Aix 5.3, 6.1 and 7.1. Our Unix guys are looking to get rid of the HW > mirroring .. and go to OS level mirroring ... Mirrored disks will be > offsite, actually same disks that are the current HW mirror... Does > anyone know of anything abnormal we would need to look at... Would it be > better to just do Informix mirroring instead of the OS mirroring ... > > Peter Logan > Senior Database Administrator > Phone: 616/878-8309 > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --14dae93406bb29f64404c30f223e
Art ... If you set HDR up this way ... and you do have a failure and switch over to the secondary ... how does the licensing then be impacted ... or can you run temporarily on the remote server until the primary is brought back up and not be out of compliance .... We had a failure a few weeks ago .. and it took the storage guys a while to get things up on the remote disks .. I've tried to convince them to use HDR for years ... to no success .... Peter Logan Senior Database Administrator Phone: 616/878-8309 From: "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com> To: ids@iiug.org Date: 06/22/2012 08:55 AM Subject: Re: Mirroring ? [27434] Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org Thinking this over, it smacks of an attempt to create an offsite backup by using the mirrors. This is a job for HDR, remote disk mirroring. Since the secondary requires only 100 pvu of licenses if it is not being accessed, this is not an expensive solution. The savings on expensive remote mirror hardware like EMC Symetrics will probably pay for the extra pvu licenses plus more reasonably priced locally mirrored disk arrays at both sites. That would double your redundancy as well. Art On Jun 22, 2012 8:15 AM, "Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com" < Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote: > We currently use hardware mirroring ... IDS 11.50xc5 and idx 11.70.fc3xc > .... Aix 5.3, 6.1 and 7.1. Our Unix guys are looking to get rid of the HW > mirroring .. and go to OS level mirroring ... Mirrored disks will be > offsite, actually same disks that are the current HW mirror... Does > anyone know of anything abnormal we would need to look at... Would it be > better to just do Informix mirroring instead of the OS mirroring ... > > Peter Logan > Senior Database Administrator > Phone: 616/878-8309 > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --14dae93406bb29f64404c30f223e ******************************************************************************* Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
Your primary licenses just move over. No problem as long ad only one is actively accessed. Art On Jun 22, 2012 9:19 AM, "Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com" < Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote: > Art ... > > If you set HDR up this way ... and you do have a failure and switch over > to the secondary ... how does the licensing then be impacted ... or can > you run temporarily on the remote server until the primary is brought back > up and not be out of compliance .... We had a failure a few weeks ago .. > and it took the storage guys a while to get things up on the remote disks > ... I've tried to convince them to use HDR for years ... to no success > ..... > > Peter Logan > Senior Database Administrator > Phone: 616/878-8309 > > From: "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com> > To: ids@iiug.org > Date: 06/22/2012 08:55 AM > Subject: Re: Mirroring ? [27434] > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org > > Thinking this over, it smacks of an attempt to create an offsite backup by > > using the mirrors. This is a job for HDR, remote disk mirroring. Since the > > secondary requires only 100 pvu of licenses if it is not being accessed, > this is not an expensive solution. > > The savings on expensive remote mirror hardware like EMC Symetrics will > probably pay for the extra pvu licenses plus more reasonably priced > locally > mirrored disk arrays at both sites. That would double your redundancy as > well. > > Art > On Jun 22, 2012 8:15 AM, "Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com" < > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote: > > > We currently use hardware mirroring ... IDS 11.50xc5 and idx 11.70.fc3xc > > > .... Aix 5.3, 6.1 and 7.1. Our Unix guys are looking to get rid of the > HW > > mirroring .. and go to OS level mirroring ... Mirrored disks will be > > offsite, actually same disks that are the current HW mirror... Does > > anyone know of anything abnormal we would need to look at... Would it be > > > better to just do Informix mirroring instead of the OS mirroring ... > > > > Peter Logan > > Senior Database Administrator > > Phone: 616/878-8309 > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > --14dae93406bb29f64404c30f223e > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --14dae93405634a0c0604c30ff10f
There is no license costs for hot-standbys any more so when you failover to the sec your license will be fine. Cheers Paul > Art ... > > If you set HDR up this way ... and you do have a failure and switch over > to the secondary ... how does the licensing then be impacted ... or can > you run temporarily on the remote server until the primary is brought back > up and not be out of compliance .... We had a failure a few weeks ago .. > and it took the storage guys a while to get things up on the remote disks > ... I've tried to convince them to use HDR for years ... to no success > ..... > > Peter Logan > Senior Database Administrator > Phone: 616/878-8309 > > From: "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com> > To: ids@iiug.org > Date: 06/22/2012 08:55 AM > Subject: Re: Mirroring ? [27434] > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org > > Thinking this over, it smacks of an attempt to create an offsite backup by > > using the mirrors. This is a job for HDR, remote disk mirroring. Since the > > secondary requires only 100 pvu of licenses if it is not being accessed, > this is not an expensive solution. > > The savings on expensive remote mirror hardware like EMC Symetrics will > probably pay for the extra pvu licenses plus more reasonably priced > locally > mirrored disk arrays at both sites. That would double your redundancy as > well. > > Art > On Jun 22, 2012 8:15 AM, "Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com" < > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote: > >> We currently use hardware mirroring ... IDS 11.50xc5 and idx 11.70.fc3xc > >> .... Aix 5.3, 6.1 and 7.1. Our Unix guys are looking to get rid of the > HW >> mirroring .. and go to OS level mirroring ... Mirrored disks will be >> offsite, actually same disks that are the current HW mirror... Does >> anyone know of anything abnormal we would need to look at... Would it be > >> better to just do Informix mirroring instead of the OS mirroring ... >> >> Peter Logan >> Senior Database Administrator >> Phone: 616/878-8309 >> >> >> >> > > ******************************************************************************* > >> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. >> >> > > --14dae93406bb29f64404c30f223e > > > ******************************************************************************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > -- Paul Watson Tel: +1 913-674-0360 Mob: +1 913-387-7529 Web: www.oninit.com www.advancedatatools.com Failure is not as frightening as regret. If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid. What this country needs are more unemployed politicians
Peter, You only pay for the licences used on the secondary if they are used *_at the same time_* as your primary licences are used; ex: your regular production is on the primary and some queries are launched thru COGNOS, Business Objects on the secondary. Plus, you do not have to pay the same thing. You can have let us say 800 PVUs on the primary and ONLY pay for 10 users (Authorized Users) on the secondary. In the past, you needed to pay 100 PVUs on your secondary instances even if they were not used simultaneously with your primary. However, if the secondary instances are only used if the primary is down; meaning ONLY one instance is used at one time, you do not need to pay anything since only one instance is effectively used. This applies to HDR, RSS *but NOT SDS*. For SDS instances, you have top pay the full licence just like your Primary. Cordialement, Regards, Khaled Bentebal Directeur Général - ConsultiX Président UGIF - User Group Informix France IIUG - Board of Directors Tél: 33 (0) 1 39 12 18 00 Fax: 33 (0) 1 39 12 18 18 Mobile: 33 (0) 6 07 78 41 97 Email: khaled.bentebal@consult-ix.fr Site Web: www.consult-ix.fr Le 22/06/12 15:18, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com a écrit : > Art ... > > If you set HDR up this way ... and you do have a failure and switch over > to the secondary ... how does the licensing then be impacted ... or can > you run temporarily on the remote server until the primary is brought back > up and not be out of compliance .... We had a failure a few weeks ago .. > and it took the storage guys a while to get things up on the remote disks > ... I've tried to convince them to use HDR for years ... to no success > ..... > > Peter Logan > Senior Database Administrator > Phone: 616/878-8309 > > From: "Art Kagel"<art.kagel@gmail.com> > To: ids@iiug.org > Date: 06/22/2012 08:55 AM > Subject: Re: Mirroring ? [27434] > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org > > Thinking this over, it smacks of an attempt to create an offsite backup by > > using the mirrors. This is a job for HDR, remote disk mirroring. Since the > > secondary requires only 100 pvu of licenses if it is not being accessed, > this is not an expensive solution. > > The savings on expensive remote mirror hardware like EMC Symetrics will > probably pay for the extra pvu licenses plus more reasonably priced > locally > mirrored disk arrays at both sites. That would double your redundancy as > well. > > Art > On Jun 22, 2012 8:15 AM, "Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com"< > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote: > >> We currently use hardware mirroring ... IDS 11.50xc5 and idx 11.70.fc3xc >> .... Aix 5.3, 6.1 and 7.1. Our Unix guys are looking to get rid of the > HW >> mirroring .. and go to OS level mirroring ... Mirrored disks will be >> offsite, actually same disks that are the current HW mirror... Does >> anyone know of anything abnormal we would need to look at... Would it be >> better to just do Informix mirroring instead of the OS mirroring ... >> >> Peter Logan >> Senior Database Administrator >> Phone: 616/878-8309 >> >> >> >> > ******************************************************************************* > >> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. >> >> > --14dae93406bb29f64404c30f223e > > > ******************************************************************************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > >
Killed is correct. I keep forgetting that ibm dropped to 100 pvu requirement earlier this year. Secondary is not accessed while the primary is online are free. Art On Jun 23, 2012 10:09 AM, "Khaled Bentebal" <khaled.bentebal@consult-ix.fr> wrote: > Peter, > > You only pay for the licences used on the secondary if they are used > *_at the same time_* as your primary licences are used; ex: your regular > production is on the primary and some queries are launched thru COGNOS, > Business Objects on the secondary. Plus, you do not have to pay the same > thing. You can have let us say 800 PVUs on the primary and ONLY pay for > 10 users (Authorized Users) on the secondary. > > In the past, you needed to pay 100 PVUs on your secondary instances even > if they were not used simultaneously with your primary. > > However, if the secondary instances are only used if the primary is > down; meaning ONLY one instance is used at one time, you do not need to > pay anything since only one instance is effectively used. This applies > to HDR, RSS *but NOT SDS*. For SDS instances, you have top pay the full > licence just like your Primary. > > Cordialement, Regards, > > Khaled Bentebal > Directeur Général - ConsultiX > Président UGIF - User Group Informix France > IIUG - Board of Directors > Tél: 33 (0) 1 39 12 18 00 > Fax: 33 (0) 1 39 12 18 18 > Mobile: 33 (0) 6 07 78 41 97 > Email: khaled.bentebal@consult-ix.fr > Site Web: www.consult-ix.fr > > Le 22/06/12 15:18, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com a écrit : > > Art ... > > > > If you set HDR up this way ... and you do have a failure and switch over > > to the secondary ... how does the licensing then be impacted ... or can > > you run temporarily on the remote server until the primary is brought > back > > up and not be out of compliance .... We had a failure a few weeks ago .. > > and it took the storage guys a while to get things up on the remote disks > > ... I've tried to convince them to use HDR for years ... to no success > > ..... > > > > Peter Logan > > Senior Database Administrator > > Phone: 616/878-8309 > > > > From: "Art Kagel"<art.kagel@gmail.com> > > To: ids@iiug.org > > Date: 06/22/2012 08:55 AM > > Subject: Re: Mirroring ? [27434] > > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org > > > > Thinking this over, it smacks of an attempt to create an offsite backup > by > > > > using the mirrors. This is a job for HDR, remote disk mirroring. Since > the > > > > secondary requires only 100 pvu of licenses if it is not being accessed, > > this is not an expensive solution. > > > > The savings on expensive remote mirror hardware like EMC Symetrics will > > probably pay for the extra pvu licenses plus more reasonably priced > > locally > > mirrored disk arrays at both sites. That would double your redundancy as > > well. > > > > Art > > On Jun 22, 2012 8:15 AM, "Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com"< > > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote: > > > >> We currently use hardware mirroring ... IDS 11.50xc5 and idx 11.70.fc3xc > >> .... Aix 5.3, 6.1 and 7.1. Our Unix guys are looking to get rid of the > > HW > >> mirroring .. and go to OS level mirroring ... Mirrored disks will be > >> offsite, actually same disks that are the current HW mirror... Does > >> anyone know of anything abnormal we would need to look at... Would it be > >> better to just do Informix mirroring instead of the OS mirroring ... > >> > >> Peter Logan > >> Senior Database Administrator > >> Phone: 616/878-8309 > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > > >> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > >> > >> > > --14dae93406bb29f64404c30f223e > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --bcaec5186da081519804c3374bd5
Sorry, I was referring to Khaled, not "killed". Art On Jun 24, 2012 8:50 AM, "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com> wrote: > Killed is correct. I keep forgetting that ibm dropped to 100 pvu > requirement earlier this year. Secondary is not accessed while the primary > is online are free. > > Art > On Jun 23, 2012 10:09 AM, "Khaled Bentebal" <khaled.bentebal@consult-ix.fr > > > wrote: > > > Peter, > > > > You only pay for the licences used on the secondary if they are used > > *_at the same time_* as your primary licences are used; ex: your regular > > production is on the primary and some queries are launched thru COGNOS, > > Business Objects on the secondary. Plus, you do not have to pay the same > > thing. You can have let us say 800 PVUs on the primary and ONLY pay for > > 10 users (Authorized Users) on the secondary. > > > > In the past, you needed to pay 100 PVUs on your secondary instances even > > if they were not used simultaneously with your primary. > > > > However, if the secondary instances are only used if the primary is > > down; meaning ONLY one instance is used at one time, you do not need to > > pay anything since only one instance is effectively used. This applies > > to HDR, RSS *but NOT SDS*. For SDS instances, you have top pay the full > > licence just like your Primary. > > > > Cordialement, Regards, > > > > Khaled Bentebal > > Directeur Général - ConsultiX > > Président UGIF - User Group Informix France > > IIUG - Board of Directors > > Tél: 33 (0) 1 39 12 18 00 > > Fax: 33 (0) 1 39 12 18 18 > > Mobile: 33 (0) 6 07 78 41 97 > > Email: khaled.bentebal@consult-ix.fr > > Site Web: www.consult-ix.fr > > > > Le 22/06/12 15:18, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com a écrit : > > > Art ... > > > > > > If you set HDR up this way ... and you do have a failure and switch > over > > > to the secondary ... how does the licensing then be impacted ... or can > > > you run temporarily on the remote server until the primary is brought > > back > > > up and not be out of compliance .... We had a failure a few weeks ago > .. > > > and it took the storage guys a while to get things up on the remote > disks > > > ... I've tried to convince them to use HDR for years ... to no success > > > ..... > > > > > > Peter Logan > > > Senior Database Administrator > > > Phone: 616/878-8309 > > > > > > From: "Art Kagel"<art.kagel@gmail.com> > > > To: ids@iiug.org > > > Date: 06/22/2012 08:55 AM > > > Subject: Re: Mirroring ? [27434] > > > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org > > > > > > Thinking this over, it smacks of an attempt to create an offsite backup > > by > > > > > > using the mirrors. This is a job for HDR, remote disk mirroring. Since > > the > > > > > > secondary requires only 100 pvu of licenses if it is not being > accessed, > > > this is not an expensive solution. > > > > > > The savings on expensive remote mirror hardware like EMC Symetrics will > > > probably pay for the extra pvu licenses plus more reasonably priced > > > locally > > > mirrored disk arrays at both sites. That would double your redundancy > as > > > well. > > > > > > Art > > > On Jun 22, 2012 8:15 AM, "Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com"< > > > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote: > > > > > >> We currently use hardware mirroring ... IDS 11.50xc5 and idx > 11.70.fc3xc > > >> .... Aix 5.3, 6.1 and 7.1. Our Unix guys are looking to get rid of the > > > HW > > >> mirroring .. and go to OS level mirroring ... Mirrored disks will be > > >> offsite, actually same disks that are the current HW mirror... Does > > >> anyone know of anything abnormal we would need to look at... Would it > be > > >> better to just do Informix mirroring instead of the OS mirroring ... > > >> > > >> Peter Logan > > >> Senior Database Administrator > > >> Phone: 616/878-8309 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > > > > >> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > >> > > >> > > > --14dae93406bb29f64404c30f223e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > --bcaec5186da081519804c3374bd5 > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --14dae9340a6f3a00fc04c337556f
>> This is a job for HDR, remote disk mirroring. Since the secondary requires only 100 pvu of licenses if it is not being accessed, this is not an expensive solution. Actually, the requirement to licence the Secondary with 100 PVUs has been removed from the later licensing agreements.