Re: New Era, VB, Delphi, PB

Tim Schaefer wrote: > Mark D. Stock wrote: > > Tim Schaefer wrote: > > > > Mark D. Stock wrote: > > > > Look, if you don't want to use NewEra just yet and you want to stick to > > > > good old 4GL, then just come right out and say it Tim. :-) > > > > > > > Actually, I'm over 4GL, have been for quite some time. It was a great > > > product and occasionally I still use it. I've been having more fun with > > > ESQL/C, Java, and some design work of late. > > > > That's interesting. So do you think 4GL is dead? > > Well, if we were to use the postings here in c.d.i. as a measure of what people are > using, I would say that 4GL is still being used, and continues to be sold. But like > some variants of human languages, yes, I would say it is indeed dead. New Era has > taken an important approach to the language, giving it the transition it would need > if the 4GL model still applies. Today we can now skip this model, move right to > Java, and say bye-bye to 4GL. I think an important transition product that must > come soon would be a 4GL-to-Java tool. I started working on one, but having to > work for a living I've not finished mine. The 4GL model can be applied to a certain > degree with Java, but in a lot of ways it is no longer necessary, as Java offers > the flexibility of a 3GL with the coolness of a GUI 4gl. You'll notice much of the > postings here are about trying to make 4GL do things it was not originally intended > to do. The same thing is happening with New Era. Hats off to the New Era team, as > they've done a great effort, but look at the long term investment and see if New Era > really applies. These apps will require care and feeding. Make sure you're prepared > to do that. You mean 4GL apps didn't? ;-) It's interesting what you say about Java, but like a lot of the new technology, I think I'll wait and see. :-) > > > Well, I see a varied mix NOW, and I think it'll continue. Even Informix is > > > buying an eclectic mix of products, putting their name on it, and offering > > > it. You almost need a scorecard. > > > > Okay, so USA is different to RSA, point made (again :). Informix has always > > done that. In fact, if you look at their history, they should be selling > > off NewEra (their only GUI development tool) any moment now. ;-) > > > Well, given the sales effort of New Era, it would be a big boo-boo to tell > everyone that bought it, that, hey, sorry, we're moving on now. It's just as > risky with other vendors' products, so Informix is not alone in this--which is > precisely why I'm avoiding New Era. It's a great product, but not something I > see for the long-term investment. Well, what happened to Wingz? What happened to Hyperscript? What happened to 4gl-GX (okay, it WAS a crap product)? What happened to 4GL for Windows (okay it WAS a re-write of 4GL-GX)? Now, as you say, it's not worth holding your breath for NewEra's future. ;-) > > > > It may be just my warped sense of the universe, but to me the whole > > > > industry has come full circle over the last ten years. With a return now > > > > to host-centric systems with dumb or thin clients, running 3GL's like > > > > Java. >8-) > > > > > > Yes, we're back to terminal based sytems with one major difference. If > > > the Network Computer becomes a reality, think about this: > > > If the server crashes on a character-based system, the user could not work. > > > If the server crashes on an NC, the user could theoretically continue to > > > work, depending on the app because the app is LOCAL to the terminal. This > > > is a profound difference to the server-centric character-based systems. > > > > Not much when you consider the intended concept of the 'application' being > > simply a browser. The only concept that will keep a browser running is > > being able to have inteligence about what to do and where to go if the > > server or link goes down. > > > > Oh, but the browser-only thing is not what NC is about. Keep in mind the hardware > is hosting the Java O/S. This means apps can take whatever form you need, just > like the past, but actually quite UNLIKE the past. I wouldn't be too surprised to > see INFORMIX come out with their own O/S in the near future. If you think about it, > isn't the managing of a raw partion something a DISK OPERATING SYSTEM does? How > much more of an effort would it be to bundle in the remaining O/S elements? Or > an API right on top Java? I'm sure this is coming. Oh now here I agree. This is one of my pet topics when giving Informix training. The development of both RDBMS's and OS's, in my view, is going to cross paths somewhere in the not-to-distant future. As you say, if you look at what an OS does and what a modern day DBMS does, they are far too similiar. Modern UNIX now has checkpoints with fast recovery on system failure, instead of fsck!! I certainly think Informix should look at this area for future development. Perhaps we can get a job in R&D eh Tim? > > > I think a lot of managers here in the states long for the day when their > > > workers are not downloading shareware GUI apps for their computers. They > > > will have all their favorite PC apps running on a GUI terminal, only it > > > won't be Xterm, or a fat-client app it'll be a GUI app they could run on a > > > PC. And they'll actually be WORKING, a concept lost in a lot of companies. > > > Microsloth is not too happy about Java and NC. Already there's enough Java > > > out there to make a PC look silly. ActiveX? Ha! Why bother??? > > > > Oh sure, but it's the same game, different rules. If Microbucks can't play > > with the new rules, then I'm happy for them :-)) > > > Microsoft is indeed showing its' true colors, and we are actually now going to > go through a severe partitioning in the industry again, as the MS-camps and non-MS-camps > begin to separate. I would love to see a Java terminal for the home, with a fiber > optic cable, and maybe a small disk drive. Just like a telephone. I've got a digital > sattelite dish, all it needs is a net connection... Mmm, well Nokia has done this with cellular comms and a palm-top. Maybe the network computers of the future will simply be an over-sized watch with built-in cellular comms and enough of an application to talk to the net! <soapbox vapourised by next episode, who wasn't too impressed either> Cheers, -- Mark. +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Mark D. Stock - The West Solutions Group http://www.west.co.za | | The Informix FAQ is at http://www.iiug.org | |mailto:marks@west.co.za +------------------------------------------------+ |Tel: +27 11 803 2151 |If it doesn't work... force it! | |Fax: +27 11 803 2189 |If it breaks... it needed replacing anyway! | |Cell: +27 83 250 2325 |Well, that's how I code anyway! | +------------------------+------------------------------------------------+