Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, TheNext Informix IDS Release...

Jean Georges Perrin wrote: > I am lost! How can you compare Informix, a database technology, with > artificial intelligence? > I had actually been lulled into thinking that you were capable of thinking outside the Informix box. But I see that I am indeed wrong. On this I am sure. Thinking Machines ( the company ) was carved up and split off between Sun and Oracle. God only knows what they did with the parts, but the point, obviously lost on you, was that this was great technology that simply did not make it in its present form. Informix, great technology, but for whatever reason will not make it--at least in its present form. The Connection Machines developed by Thinking Machines where way ahead of their time, just like Informix. DB2 is now enjoying the fruits of Informix labor, and Informix to some degree is enjoying some of the technology from DB2, such as better buffer pool management. But IBM knows they can get most of their sales from 20% of the Informix base, thusly this is why they don't give a rats ass about marketing it. As it dies a slow and tragic death, IBM will simply continue to offer DB2 like a robot offering tea. > The path of your thinking is really strange to me. > It's early for you. When you get 5-10 years away from actually using Informix it will become easier for you. This will soon be possible when Informix slides off into the abyss. > Your mail is the same kind of usual rambling, then you divert on AI. This is > how you want to convince than Informix is anemic? Come on! You can surely do > better than that! > I appreciate your challenge. Like you I persist here in c.d.i, for apparently no other reason than the pointless, hopeless hope that there is a twinkle of intelligence at IBM that is reading here, and will wake up and Informix will start to be marketed and really advertised. In my misguided zeal, I somehow think that somebody will resurrect this product and really make it fly. But deep down inside I know it's a lost cause. Probably the same kind of problem people have with quitting smoking, it's difficult. > Or go comp.lang.prolog... > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- >> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Double Echo >> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 07:45 >> To: informix-list@iiug.org >> Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, >> TheNext Informix IDS Release... >> >> The big question is, what does the conference really buy you in the >> market? >> >> Just because Walmart and a few other companies are keeping the Informix >> lights >> on doesn't mean the product has a real future. If you can't build a >> developer >> base, all you have is a database engine. Look at all the great technology >> projects over the years that were the "superior" choice, but nobody cared. >> Unless Informix differentiates itself in the market with some kind of >> application >> that works with the database, it's a big nothing. Just nothing. >> >> Try this one in google: Thinking Machines . That one is really amazing. >> All >> gone now, great technology, with a great future... bwahahahaaaaaaa! 8-) >> >> >> Jean Georges Perrin wrote: >>> Malcolm, first understand I have a lot of respect with what you have >> been >>> doing for the Informix community. >>> >>> Having said that, I fully disagree with you on many points. >>> >>> Informix is not in "apathy mode". It sure is not as "brilliant" as in >> early >>> 1997 when Informix corp was cumulating about a quarter of Oracle's >> revenue. >>> But some did errors and things have changed. However, apathy or anemic >> are >>> certainly NOT how I'd describe the Informix world today! Are you related >> to >>> DE? >>> >>> The conference had poor attendance: it was the first ever in Europe. >> Even >>> IFMX did not do one in the glorious (new) era. >>> >>> Price is high: I will not disclose numbers (which I do not have ;-) ) >> but >>> IDUG is *not* making a lot of money on European events. IIUG (blame us >> if >>> you will) is not doing ANY money. >>> >>> Volunteers: the conference in Vienna, from the IIUG standpoint, is >> manned by >>> volunteers, this include Gary & Paul. If we had 10 times these guys, >> we'd >>> probably be able to make a cheap conference in my garage... (and along >> side >>> with my "cave", we could do two tracks, we would even be able to set up >> a >>> hands on lab on my systems...). >>> >>> And please don't find the excuse of "no time"... I am on a contract, so >> even >>> if I can access those conferences at "a preferred rate", it means no >> income >>> during the week. And going to 3 or 4 conferences a year does not bring >> you >>> knowledge: one or two yes, no more knowledge because you double the time >>> spent in the same type of conference. And I am not an Informix >> consultant, >>> so I am not even chasing customers there. >>> >>> Please all, stop moaning and complaining, IIUG is looking for >> volunteers... >>> (and it's not all directed at Malcolm). >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- >>>> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of malcolm weallans >>>> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 20:54 >>>> To: 'Jean Georges Perrin'; 'Davorin Kremenjas'; informix-list@iiug.org >>>> Subject: RE: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, >> The >>>> Next Informix IDS Release... >>>> >>>> Jean Georges, I don't think it is a question of setting an index and >>>> pricing >>>> according to where the people come from. That would generate a big >> market >>>> in paper companies ostensibly based in the poorest country of the >> world. >>>> But this is exactly the same problem that we had in trying to fix a >>>> membership fee for IIUG - oh so many years ago. >>>> >>>> What we really need to consider - as a newsgroup and as IIUG - is that >> we >>>> have a diverse audience. Some may be prepared to pay to attend >>>> conferences >>>> - others might find financing such a venture difficult. Some might >> have >>>> ample time to attend conferences. Some are managing a number of IDS >>>> servers >>>> single-handedly and our absence needs a lot of justification. Some >> want >>>> highly technical presentations to justify the expense of both time and >>>> money. Some would be lost with these advanced topics and would like to >>>> have >>>> lower level presentations. >>>> >>>> It has been commented that there weren't many UK informix users at the >>>> conference as well as a shortage of croatians. It would be worth >> seeing >>>> figures of the numbers of attendees from each country and for proper >>>> comparison how many licences have been sold in those countries and the >>>> average salary of a DBA in those countries and even how many IIUG >> members >>>> there are in those countries. Perhaps the IIUG could try to publish >> those >>>> figures. I am sure it would be an interesting exercise collecting the >>>> data >>>> :-) >>>> >>>> But being realistic the apathy towards Informix is a major factor.

Double Echo said: > DB2 is now enjoying the fruits of Informix labor, and Informix to some > degree is enjoying some of the technology from DB2, such as better buffer > pool management. I'd suggest "different" rather than "better", perhaps. > But IBM knows they can get most of their sales from 20% > of the Informix base, thusly this is why they don't give a rats ass about > marketing it. As it dies a slow and tragic death, IBM will simply > continue to offer DB2 like a robot offering tea. Actually, that's not entirely the problem. Well, not in the UK. IBM doesn't seem to do ANY product marketing in the UK, as far as I can tell. I mean, I don't read every single possible publication or anything, but just going by their TV advertising, I think their marketing department has ingested the entire cocaine production from Columbia for the last five years. The advert is one of these fluffy, content-free, feel-good things with the tagline "What makes you special?", to which I always reply, in a mong-like voice, "My needs". Farking idiots. ANYWAY, the point of it all is that the only thing IBM sees fit to market is IBM as a whole or the various brands at a very vague and amorphous level. Hence, DB2 advertising (if it still exists) will not actually tell you anything about DB2, just that such a thing exists. However, I suspect that if you did find any IBM data management adverts, they would probably say nothing much at all other than "IBM sells some kinds of data management stuff". To a certain extent, I can almost sympathise with their problem, which is basically: "how the f*ck do you professionally and intelligently market 20,000 different pieces of software?" Things may have been different for DB2 in the days of Janet Perna who had skin in the DB2 game and had her own emotional reasons for marketing and selling DB2 *as a product* but there is no-one that high up in the brand with any skin in the game, it now becomes standard amorphous IBM marketing. The upside for IDS is that the new guy seems to be thinking only with his wallet, and that means that if enough users get together and gang up on him and say, very clearly, that marketing IDS distinctly will lead to revenue gains, you may well get your wish. > I appreciate your challenge. Like you I persist here in c.d.i, for > apparently no other reason than the pointless, hopeless hope that there is > a twinkle of intelligence at IBM that is reading here, and will wake up > and Informix will start to be marketed and really advertised. See above. -- Bye now, Obnoxio "... no bill is required as no value was provided." -- Christine Normile -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by OpenProtect(http://www.openprotect.com), and is believed to be clean.

Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > > The upside for IDS is that the new guy seems to be thinking only with his > wallet, and that means that if enough users get together and gang up on > him and say, very clearly, that marketing IDS distinctly will lead to > revenue gains, you may well get your wish. > The product should be renamed. I was thinking Phoenix, since the product has risen from the ashes so many times. It would get to keep the "ix" for sentimentality. But seriously this dog needs a new name, and a new image. Informix is a name that is synonymous with "loser".