Re: Reduction in the Quality of Informix Support
Not a technical problem but a gripe thread about IBM's Informix support channel. The complaint: when an order is fulfilled through certain distributors (e.g. OpenPSL), the end user and their IBM Business Partner are barred from contacting IBM Informix tech support directly and must route all calls — even down-system emergencies — through the distributor, even though the invoice shows the same IBM maintenance product code as orders placed elsewhere. Others argued IBM support compares well with Oracle/Microsoft and that Informix's small market share (~3% vs DB2's 30%) explains the neglect. The thread drifts into banter and records no resolution.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys". malcolm weallans wrote: > 'twas ever so. There have always been problems with users wanting to > get support from Informix but forced to buy through the channels. Then > they can't get tech support when they need it. And it's a very easy > mechanism to hide behind. The customer goes to their IBM Business > partner, who in turn goes to the distributor, who in turn goes to IBM. > And by the time IBM engineers get a description of the problem it is > garbled beyond belief. Nothing ever gets fixed. > This never happened to us, we went directly to Informix Tech Support. > I do wish this industry would learn that "customer support" is a two-way > street. If you give the customers good support then the customers will > support you. But if you make it difficult for customers to do business > with you then they will go elsewhere. > Informix had the same problem a lot of vendors have, they have a presales relationship that is different from post-sales. The relationship that built the sale can typically disappear after the money changes hands. This had a lot to do with some old-style business models of the 80's and 90's, and there are still a lot of vendors behaving badly, not just IBM or Informix. > I sometimes wonder if IBM really want to keep the Informix customers who > purchase through channels etc. They only seem to be interested in the > BIG customers, or am I being totally cynical? > The reality of a 3% market share vs 30% market share, what would you do? IBM did the right thing, they absorbed the Informix market, and will convert or alienate these customers over time. > Malcolm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-informix-list@iiug.org [mailto:owner-informix-list@iiug.org] > On Behalf Of Neil Truby > Sent: 19 March 2004 09:23 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > Subject: Re: Reduction in the Quality of Informix Support > > > "The Sneeze" <gezundheit@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:HEu6c.47430$aT1.30813@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > >>Is OpenPSL (or any other reseller) allowed to sell direct IBM support, > > >>or are they supposed to provide the first lines of support? The way I > > >>heard it, OpenPSL customers are supposed to go to OpenPSL for support; > > >>only complex cases get referred on to IBM/Informix? > > > To answer the second question first, that's what I've been told, too. > All calls must go to OpenPSL. It has been made clear that no matter how > complex, drawn-out or critical to the business of the end user (the IBM > customer!) the problem is, the end user or their IBM Business Partner > will > *never* be allowed to talk directly to IBM Informix tech Support. > Imagine trying to fix a down system under those circumstances ...! > > To address your the question: you misunderstand the situation. OpenPSL > is not a reseller, it is a distributor. OpenPSL cannot and does not > sell to end users. The IBM Business Partner chooses through which (IBM > approved) distributor to source an order. The customer has no say in > this choice, and is almost always unaware which distributor has in fact > been used to fulfill his order. > > >>If you want direct support from IBM/Informix, buy direct support >>directly from IBM/Informix? If you want cheap support, go where you >>like to get it - you get what you pay for? > > > 1. The idea that to get entitlement to full-blown product it must *only* > be bought directly from the manufacturer violates every principle of a > distribution channel! Did you buy your road tax through The Post Office > rather than direct from DVLA? Sorry, mate, it's invalid, you'll have to > go to prison! > > 2. I have not bought "cheap support". My customer has ordered IBM > Informix Tech Support from me, and I have ordered for him, as it says on > my invoice from OpenPSL, product code (E00PCLL IBM INFORMIX DYNAMIC > SERVER ENTERPRISE ED CONCSESSION ANNUAL SW MAINT RNWL). Whether I > fulfill the order direct or through an IBM-approved distributor he is > buying the same commodity. > > 3. Think of this from the point of view of the end user whom IBM seem to > be forgettting is also actually their customer. He places his order for > IBM Informix with an IBM-approved business partner. He has no say > whatever whether his order is fulfilled through Distributor A or > Distributor B, nor will he know after the fact. If his order was > fulfilled through Distributor A, he will receive E00PCLL IBM INFORMIX SW > MAINT, and a full service from IBM. If it is sourced through > Distributor B, he will receive E00PCLL IBM INFORMIX SW MAINT, but IBM > will refuse direct calls to its IBM Informix support technicians, no > matter how business-critical his problem. > > How is that fair then? > > > sending to informix-list
"Data Goob" <datagoob@netscape.net> wrote in message news:YcC6c.24180$3M1.18492@fe29.usenetserver.com... > We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket > of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys". Who do you mean by "The Other Guys"?
Neil Truby wrote: > "Data Goob" <datagoob@netscape.net> wrote in message > news:YcC6c.24180$3M1.18492@fe29.usenetserver.com... > >>We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket >>of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys". > > > Who do you mean by "The Other Guys"? I want to know what he means by 3% versus 30%, myself... <sigh> Trust me to shag my box with usenet access at the time when we have the one good ding-dong of the year... :o( -- Ciao, Obnoxio Tip of the day: don't think that an in-place Linux upgrade is a likely to be painless like an Informix in-place upgrade. :o(
Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > > Neil Truby wrote: > > "Data Goob" <datagoob@netscape.net> wrote in message > > news:YcC6c.24180$3M1.18492@fe29.usenetserver.com... > > > >>We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket > >>of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys". > > > > > > Who do you mean by "The Other Guys"? > > I want to know what he means by 3% versus 30%, myself... > > <sigh> Trust me to shag my box What an 'orrible image !! > with usenet access at the time when we > have the one good ding-dong of the year... :o( > > -- > Ciao, > Obnoxio > > Tip of the day: don't think that an in-place Linux upgrade is a likely > to be painless like an Informix in-place upgrade. :o( -- Paul Watson # Oninit Ltd # Growing old is mandatory Tel: +44 1436 672201 # Growing up is optional Fax: +44 1436 678693 # Mob: +44 7818 003457 # www.oninit.com #
Paul Watson wrote: > Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > >>Neil Truby wrote: >> >>>"Data Goob" <datagoob@netscape.net> wrote in message >>>news:YcC6c.24180$3M1.18492@fe29.usenetserver.com... >>> >>> >>>>We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket >>>>of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys". >>> >>> >>>Who do you mean by "The Other Guys"? >> >>I want to know what he means by 3% versus 30%, myself... >> >><sigh> Trust me to shag my box > > What an 'orrible image !! Well, it *is* the only shag I'm likely to get nowadays... :o( -- Ciao, Obnoxio Tip of the day: don't think that an in-place Linux upgrade is a likely to be painless like an Informix in-place upgrade. :o(
Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > Well, it *is* the only shag I'm likely to get nowadays... :o( You see what happens when you associate with IBM. ;-) -- Daniel Morgan http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/oad/oad_crs.asp http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/aoa/aoa_crs.asp damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)
Oracle, Microsoft. Have you ever delt with either of these two for support? IBM compares quite favorably! "Neil Truby" <neil.truby@ardenta.com> wrote in message news:c3eue8$26k0ei$1@ID-162943.news.uni-berlin.de... > "Data Goob" <datagoob@netscape.net> wrote in message > news:YcC6c.24180$3M1.18492@fe29.usenetserver.com... > > We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket > > of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys". > > Who do you mean by "The Other Guys"? > >
"Obnoxio The Clown" <obnoxio@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c3fcn9$27rcv2$1@ID-64669.news.uni-berlin.de... > Neil Truby wrote: > > "Data Goob" <datagoob@netscape.net> wrote in message > > news:YcC6c.24180$3M1.18492@fe29.usenetserver.com... > > > >>We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket > >>of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys". > > > > > > Who do you mean by "The Other Guys"? > > I want to know what he means by 3% versus 30%, myself... > Informix 3% DB2 30% That's what the trades are saying. > <sigh> Trust me to shag my box with usenet access at the time when we > have the one good ding-dong of the year... :o( > I was wondering what happened to you. Thought maybe the circus left town. :-) > -- > Ciao, > Obnoxio > > Tip of the day: don't think that an in-place Linux upgrade is a likely > to be painless like an Informix in-place upgrade. :o( who said Linux is painless?
Data Goob wrote: > "Obnoxio The Clown" <obnoxio@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c3fcn9$27rcv2$1@ID-64669.news.uni-berlin.de... > >>Neil Truby wrote: >> >>>"Data Goob" <datagoob@netscape.net> wrote in message >>>news:YcC6c.24180$3M1.18492@fe29.usenetserver.com... >>> >>> >>>>We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket >>>>of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys". >>> >>> >>>Who do you mean by "The Other Guys"? >> >>I want to know what he means by 3% versus 30%, myself... > > Informix 3% DB2 30% > > That's what the trades are saying. Well, they obviously know everything. >><sigh> Trust me to shag my box with usenet access at the time when we >>have the one good ding-dong of the year... :o( > > I was wondering what happened to you. Thought maybe the circus left > town. That too! -- Ciao, Obnoxio Tip of the day: don't think that an in-place Linux upgrade is a likely to be painless like an Informix in-place upgrade. :o(
Data Goob wrote: > Oracle, Microsoft. > > Have you ever delt with either of these two for support? > IBM compares quite favorably! I am finding IBM support outside Informix not always gooder than Oracle or Microstof. > "Neil Truby" <neil.truby@ardenta.com> wrote in message > news:c3eue8$26k0ei$1@ID-162943.news.uni-berlin.de... >> "Data Goob" <datagoob@netscape.net> wrote in message >> news:YcC6c.24180$3M1.18492@fe29.usenetserver.com... >> > We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small >> > basket of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys". -- Enor