Re: Informix + SAP history

Dave: My information comes directly from the correct sources. If you wish to discuss or I will be more than happy to get you on the phone with the proper people at any time of the day or evening, you are more than welcome to contact me directly. You might have worked for Informix from 88-97, but I have been working with Informix and now IBM for almost 23 years. And yes Informix was embedded inside EVERY version of SAP on UNIX until a few years ago. There is also BAAN, Lawson and many others that all got there start using Informix as their first database and using Informix 4GL. As for me saying "he descries"'... Informix or I should say IDS is the second most widely used database on UNIX with SAP in the world.... and for the longest time was the number one choice of SAP to use as a database. My facts are correct. Stuart Litel President International Informix Users Group www.iiug.org At 10:32 AM 5/11/2005, Dave wrote: >Yesterday, I received a copy of a magazine called DATABASE Trends and >Applications. My eye was caught by an article entitled "Informix Deserves >Support" written by Stuart Litel in which he decries SAP's pulling of support >for new versions of INFORMIX . Upon reading the article, however, I was taken >aback by some of the statements made that don't seem to jibe with history as I >recall it. Specifically, Litel writes: > ...SAP, which was written many years ago using Informix 4GL, > and only ran with Informix in the first version, was abandoning all > future Informix products. Until a few years ago, SAP had > Informix embedded inside as it was needed regardless of which > database the user employed. > >I worked for Informix from 88-97, and was involved in benchmarking SAP >when they >*first* decided to offer support for Informix in R3 after having only >supported >Oracle as the database. So I am confused as to what Litel is talking about in >the article. Was SAP really originally written in Informix-4GL? And was >Informix ever "embedded inside" SAP, present even when Oracle was the >underlying >database? Or by "Informix" is "C-ISAM" what is really meant (a far cry from >what most people would understand as "Informix")? > >Regards, >Dave sending to informix-list

Stuart Litel wrote: > And yes Informix was embedded inside EVERY version of SAP on UNIX until a > few years ago. When you say Informix, _what_ do you actually mean ?

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On Wed, 11 May 2005 22:19:49 -0700, Mark Townsend <markbtownsend@comcast.net> wrote: >Stuart Litel wrote: > >> And yes Informix was embedded inside EVERY version of SAP on UNIX until a >> few years ago. > >When you say Informix, _what_ do you actually mean ? Hey, Stuart, you woke up the trolls . . . . .8-) JWC

Also sprach Stuart Litel <webmaster@iiug.org> : : :Dave: : :My information comes directly from the correct sources. Which would be? SAP? IBM? :If you wish to discuss or I will be more than happy to get you on the phone :with the proper people at any time of the day or evening, you are more than :welcome to contact me directly. I really have no desire to speak with you on the phone, nor would there be any point. I am merely seeking clarification on statements you make in print that I found, based on my personal experience, to be questionable. I am certainly willing to be proven incorrect, but as of yet you have not done so. Merely asserting that your information comes from "the correct sources" does not proof make. And as you made *your* statements in a public forum, I think it is entirely appropriate that this discussion continued in an equally public forum. :You might have worked for Informix from 88-97, but I have been working with :Informix and now IBM for almost 23 years. Yes? And that means what? That my experience is invalid? Let me repeat what I originally posted. I was involved with benchmarking THE FIRST PORT OF SAP TO INFORMIX. That means that prior to that port, SAP did NOT use Informix as its database. Others have posted similar information. It seems your correct sources leave a bit to be desired. :And yes Informix was embedded inside EVERY version of SAP on UNIX until a :few years ago. Could you perhaps be a bit more explicit here? Are you saying every version of SAP shipped with an embedded copy of IDS? And that customers who were using SAP with an Oracle database had some sort of "stealth" Informix server running? :There is also BAAN, Lawson and many others that all got there start using :Informix as their first database and using Informix 4GL. All very interesting and completely irrelevant, as this discussion is on SAP and Informix. However, since you do bring up 4gl here, can you provide some details on which version of SAP was written in Informix-4GL? I have to admit, your article was the first time I had ever heard that. :As for me saying "he descries"'... Informix or I should say IDS is the :second most widely used database on UNIX with SAP in the world.... and for :the longest time was the number one choice of SAP to use as a database. I did not quote you as saying "he descries..." That is my interpretation of your position in the article, where you are saying that the pulling of support by SAP for new versions of Informix is a bad thing. That is what "descries" means - you think it is a bad thing. I am not criticizing that position - I happen to agree with it. I am also not contesting that IDS is the #2 database for use with SAP. I do question that "for the longest time was the number one choice of SAP to use as a database." I do know that SAP had designated Informix as the preferred database, primarily for business reasons (it seems that Oracle had the unfortunate habit of going into SAP accounts where Oracle was the database and trying to get the customer to move to Oracle Apps). I had heard that SAP's sales force was never entirely on-board with that move, as they did not know much about Informix. To be fair, my experience in that arena was during the time frame I worked for Informix, and the situation may have changed significantly after 1997. :My facts are correct. Your assertions are not proof. I can just as easily say that *my* facts are correct. Please be aware that I have nothing against Informix. I still think it is the best db technology out there. However, my personal experience is at odds with the position you take in your article, and I would like to understand if I am truly wrong and misunderstood the situation at the time, or if you are, for some odd reason, attempting to rewrite history. If your sources are, as you say, correct, it should be a trivial matter to provide some details in support of your position. Note: I have added a cross-posting to an SAP news group to see if they have any comments to offer on the subject. Regards, Dave : :Stuart Litel :President :International Informix Users Group :www.iiug.org : : :At 10:32 AM 5/11/2005, Dave wrote: : :>Yesterday, I received a copy of a magazine called DATABASE Trends and :>Applications. My eye was caught by an article entitled "Informix Deserves :>Support" written by Stuart Litel in which he decries SAP's pulling of support :>for new versions of INFORMIX . Upon reading the article, however, I was taken :>aback by some of the statements made that don't seem to jibe with history as I :>recall it. Specifically, Litel writes: :> ...SAP, which was written many years ago using Informix 4GL, :> and only ran with Informix in the first version, was abandoning all :> future Informix products. Until a few years ago, SAP had :> Informix embedded inside as it was needed regardless of which :> database the user employed. :> :>I worked for Informix from 88-97, and was involved in benchmarking SAP :>when they :>*first* decided to offer support for Informix in R3 after having only :>supported :>Oracle as the database. So I am confused as to what Litel is talking about in :>the article. Was SAP really originally written in Informix-4GL? And was :>Informix ever "embedded inside" SAP, present even when Oracle was the :>underlying :>database? Or by "Informix" is "C-ISAM" what is really meant (a far cry from :>what most people would understand as "Informix")? :> :>Regards, :>Dave : :sending to informix-list

Also sprach Stuart Litel <webmaster@iiug.org> : : :Dave: : :My information comes directly from the correct sources. An additional follow up. A google search on "SAP Informix" produced the following, translated from German by google - the original URL is http://www.sapinfo.net/index.php4?ACTION=noframe&url=http://www.sapinfo.net/public/en/index.php4/article/Article-195403d4650b651681/de/articleStatistic and the translation URL is http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.sapinfo.net/public/en/index.php4/article/Article-195403d4650b651681/de&prev=/search%3Fq%3DSAP%2BInformix%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official_s%26sa%3DG * sapinfo: How long are IBM and SAP their support for Informix maintained? Perna: IBM proved in the past that the products needed by the customers are waited and continued to develop. Exactly like we already 30 years successfully with the CIM data base work, become we so for a long time behind the line IDS, as the customers wish it. It will give no forced migration to other data base technologies. IBM will as for a long time support IDS as the SAP this does, and still far beyond that. Hess: SAP supports the data base Informix since 1992, and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ at this fact to today nothing changed. The common Informix development and support team of IBM and SAP work with large employment, in order to place the customers contently, and we are maintained this group. The users estimate Informix, and we are pleased that IBM wants to receive this technology. We will at least support the current versions of IDS on SAP 4.6C to 2006. We have concrete plans to certify IDS 9,30 also for the future SAP Web Application server - short WHICH - in the versions 6,30 and 6,40. IBM and SAP work thus together on the development and extension of the Informix function range. Are your sources more correct than Janet Perna and Karl-Heinz Hess? Regards, Dave