[Fwd: Re: EGL demo afterthoughts (long)]

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: EGL demo afterthoughts (long) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:28:58 -0400 From: Data Goob <datagoob@hotmail.com> To: ferdez@moredata.pt, informix-list@iiug.org Evidently informix-list isn't pushing to comp.databases.informix in a timely manner or at all. I was waiting for O-t-C's post to hit my newserver, but alas, i'll have to reply to you guys here in the mailing list and not out on the newservers. Comments at the end of this posting... >From: Fernando Fernandez <ferdez@moredata.pt> >To: informix-list@iiug.org >CC: datagoob@hotmail.com >Subject: Re: EGL demo afterthoughts (long) >Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:01:14 +0100 > >Data Goob wrote: > >>The real question is why are you still using 4GL at all? >> >> >Because there's lots of legacy code and maintenance work to do. And >because, in spite of it's many shortcomings, it's a very good and simple >language for business apps. Unfortunately it lacks the expected >characteristics of a fashionable development tool: > > * Traditional GUI & Web interfaces > * IDE > * Additional instructions to make simple tasks like sending e-mail, > parsing XML, manipulating files, etc.. > * Object orientation > >>Why would you use a payware version of 4GL when you can get an open source >>version? >> >> >Because the open source project doesn't give the same assurance that a >brand like IBM does and because they don't have the funding to invest in >product development that should be done. > >>Who will be around to maintain the code if you depart the project? >> >> >Unlike Java and other technologies in fashion, 4GL is very easy to learn. >The problem with old projects is not the programming language! Just look at >the number of J2EE orphan projects in the last years! Picking up a 4GL >project without documentation it's easier than a J2EE project in the same >situation. There's many more ways to do it wrong in J2EE than in 4GL! ;-) > >>4GL is interesting and useful but would you really deploy it on new >>projects? >> >> >Ask the many customers that keep having big teams of programmers in 4GL. >They sure don't do maintenance only! > >And I hear you asking: "Why do you resist converting to EGL, that seems to >have all the things you say 4GL needs?" > I would not ask this. I was very curious to know if there is indeed a market left in 4GL. I paid a lot of bills in my day coding 4GL, but I don't see or hear about any 4GL work at all, so my curiousity is high. Where and/or Who is using 4GL? I also tried 4J's stuff a few years ago, and it was a mess with the install, broken features, etc. so I left 4GL cold-turkey and moved on to other products and languages entirely, never to return to 4GL. I liked a lot of features of 4GL, but I have to pay my bills. I haven't seen any work for Querie-X 4GL, nada, zip, on any 4GL work. So for me I code in web languages, and do a lot of web-based work and databases to stay employed. If anything I would be more interested in the Open Source 4GL simply because it would not have vendor lock-in. This is important simply because of the way systems are evolving, etc. I can see 4GL's importance on retail systems, etc. where a GUI is not necessary, but even now my bank is using a web-based front-end to manage anything I do when I come in to have services done at the bank that I need a services rep to do, new acct, loans etc. Even more of these services I can do without a rep. There are some new services out now by the way for the "un-banked", kiosks popping up at convenience stores to set up a bank-account on the spot. I hear 80% of the USA does not have a bank account! So even the stuff 4GL used to be reserved for is being converted to a web-browser. The back-end stuff is probably getting done in web-browsers too, or command-line scripts. I would think you would see the writing on the wall with 4GL, and move to the Open Source version of 4GL, unless as you suggested you really need the support, but hey I could be wrong. I have found plenty of other ways to do things in web-based languages and/or back-end scripting that work well without the need for 4GL, and this is/was mitigated by not finding anyone using 4GL anymore--at least in the USA. 4GL while noble, went the way of the dodo bird. -DG- >Personally, I don't resist it (although it still lacks some things). Our >company is very interested in this new product from IBM. But I know many >who will resist, for many different reasons, and IBM could, easily, create >a product called the "New Informix 4GL" with the work that's already in >place (the I4GL translator and the EGL compiler). So, *everybody* would be >happy. > >Fernando > >-- >Fernando Fernandez >http://www.moredata.pt > _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement -- Fernando Fernandez http://www.moredata.pt sending to informix-list