IDS 2000 SOFTWARE

Informix, For the IDS 2000 software download that was not announced at all, that I found out about from some guy in Russia, you boneheads decided to distribute the Iconnect as an RPM file AGAIN, inside a ZIP file for chrisshakes and the IDS software as a CPIO FILE. I can't remember the last time I used CPIO. Was it for a tape drive or something like that?????? Who is in charge of final distribution decisions at Informix?? Are you people purposely trying to run the company into the ground again? WHAT IS THE CPIO COMMAND TO EXTRACT THE SOFTWARE FROM THE CPIO FILE? PUT THAT IN YOUR README YOU LEFT OUT. IS IS TOO DIFFICULT TO SIMPLY CREATE A .TAR.GZ FILE??? HELLO! INFORMIX PLEASE TURN OFF THE LIGHTS, CLOSE THE DOORS AND GO HOME. YOU ARE DONE. -- . .- .-- .--- .---- Tim Schaefer .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net .---- http://www.inxutil.com .--- http://www.datad.com .-- .- .

My guess: cpio -icvdBum < filename They used this on SCO for ages. BTW: what is RPM (just kidding...) Michael Tim Schaefer wrote: > Informix, > > For the IDS 2000 software download that was not announced at all, > that I found out about from some guy in Russia, you boneheads decided > to distribute the Iconnect as an RPM file AGAIN, inside a ZIP file for > chrisshakes and the IDS software as a CPIO FILE. I can't remember > the last time I used CPIO. Was it for a tape drive or something > like that?????? Who is in charge of final distribution decisions > at Informix?? Are you people purposely trying to run the company > into the ground again? > > WHAT IS THE CPIO COMMAND TO EXTRACT THE SOFTWARE FROM THE CPIO FILE? > > PUT THAT IN YOUR README YOU LEFT OUT. > > IS IS TOO DIFFICULT TO SIMPLY CREATE A .TAR.GZ FILE??? HELLO! > > INFORMIX PLEASE TURN OFF THE LIGHTS, CLOSE THE DOORS AND GO HOME. > > YOU ARE DONE. > -- > . > .- > .-- > .--- > .---- Tim Schaefer > .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net > .---- http://www.inxutil.com > .--- http://www.datad.com > .-- > .- > .

My guess: cpio -icvdBum < filename They used this on SCO for ages. BTW: what is RPM (just kidding...) Michael Tim Schaefer wrote: > Informix, > > For the IDS 2000 software download that was not announced at all, > that I found out about from some guy in Russia, you boneheads decided > to distribute the Iconnect as an RPM file AGAIN, inside a ZIP file for > chrisshakes and the IDS software as a CPIO FILE. I can't remember > the last time I used CPIO. Was it for a tape drive or something > like that?????? Who is in charge of final distribution decisions > at Informix?? Are you people purposely trying to run the company > into the ground again? > > WHAT IS THE CPIO COMMAND TO EXTRACT THE SOFTWARE FROM THE CPIO FILE? > > PUT THAT IN YOUR README YOU LEFT OUT. > > IS IS TOO DIFFICULT TO SIMPLY CREATE A .TAR.GZ FILE??? HELLO! > > INFORMIX PLEASE TURN OFF THE LIGHTS, CLOSE THE DOORS AND GO HOME. > > YOU ARE DONE. > -- > . > .- > .-- > .--- > .---- Tim Schaefer > .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net > .---- http://www.inxutil.com > .--- http://www.datad.com > .-- > .- > .

My guess: cpio -icvdBum < filename They used this on SCO for ages. BTW: what is RPM (just kidding...) Michael Tim Schaefer wrote: > Informix, > > For the IDS 2000 software download that was not announced at all, > that I found out about from some guy in Russia, you boneheads decided > to distribute the Iconnect as an RPM file AGAIN, inside a ZIP file for > chrisshakes and the IDS software as a CPIO FILE. I can't remember > the last time I used CPIO. Was it for a tape drive or something > like that?????? Who is in charge of final distribution decisions > at Informix?? Are you people purposely trying to run the company > into the ground again? > > WHAT IS THE CPIO COMMAND TO EXTRACT THE SOFTWARE FROM THE CPIO FILE? > > PUT THAT IN YOUR README YOU LEFT OUT. > > IS IS TOO DIFFICULT TO SIMPLY CREATE A .TAR.GZ FILE??? HELLO! > > INFORMIX PLEASE TURN OFF THE LIGHTS, CLOSE THE DOORS AND GO HOME. > > YOU ARE DONE. > -- > . > .- > .-- > .--- > .---- Tim Schaefer > .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net > .---- http://www.inxutil.com > .--- http://www.datad.com > .-- > .- > .

Tim Schaefer <tschaefe@bellsouth.net> writes: > Informix, > > For the IDS 2000 software download that was not announced at all, > that I found out about from some guy in Russia, You mean there's a download available??? > you boneheads decided > to distribute the Iconnect as an RPM file AGAIN, inside a ZIP file for > chrisshakes and the IDS software as a CPIO FILE. I can't remember > the last time I used CPIO. Was it for a tape drive or something > like that?????? Who is in charge of final distribution decisions > at Informix?? Are you people purposely trying to run the company > into the ground again? What do you mean by "againg"? -They've been trying all the time, haven't you noticed? > WHAT IS THE CPIO COMMAND TO EXTRACT THE SOFTWARE FROM THE CPIO FILE? > > > PUT THAT IN YOUR README YOU LEFT OUT. > > IS IS TOO DIFFICULT TO SIMPLY CREATE A .TAR.GZ FILE??? HELLO! > > INFORMIX PLEASE TURN OFF THE LIGHTS, CLOSE THE DOORS AND GO HOME. > > YOU ARE DONE. They _are_, aren't they... Every day that goes, the chance of me bying Informix (again) is getting smaller and smaller. I was looking forward to IDS 2000 for a Internet-database project next month, but Sybase (and possible Oracle) looks better for each day that goes. Thomas

Tim Schaefer <tschaefe@bellsouth.net> writes: > Informix, > > For the IDS 2000 software download that was not announced at all, > that I found out about from some guy in Russia, You mean there's a download available??? > you boneheads decided > to distribute the Iconnect as an RPM file AGAIN, inside a ZIP file for > chrisshakes and the IDS software as a CPIO FILE. I can't remember > the last time I used CPIO. Was it for a tape drive or something > like that?????? Who is in charge of final distribution decisions > at Informix?? Are you people purposely trying to run the company > into the ground again? What do you mean by "againg"? -They've been trying all the time, haven't you noticed? > WHAT IS THE CPIO COMMAND TO EXTRACT THE SOFTWARE FROM THE CPIO FILE? > > > PUT THAT IN YOUR README YOU LEFT OUT. > > IS IS TOO DIFFICULT TO SIMPLY CREATE A .TAR.GZ FILE??? HELLO! > > INFORMIX PLEASE TURN OFF THE LIGHTS, CLOSE THE DOORS AND GO HOME. > > YOU ARE DONE. They _are_, aren't they... Every day that goes, the chance of me bying Informix (again) is getting smaller and smaller. I was looking forward to IDS 2000 for a Internet-database project next month, but Sybase (and possible Oracle) looks better for each day that goes. Thomas

Tim Schaefer <tschaefe@bellsouth.net> writes: > Informix, > > For the IDS 2000 software download that was not announced at all, > that I found out about from some guy in Russia, You mean there's a download available??? > you boneheads decided > to distribute the Iconnect as an RPM file AGAIN, inside a ZIP file for > chrisshakes and the IDS software as a CPIO FILE. I can't remember > the last time I used CPIO. Was it for a tape drive or something > like that?????? Who is in charge of final distribution decisions > at Informix?? Are you people purposely trying to run the company > into the ground again? What do you mean by "againg"? -They've been trying all the time, haven't you noticed? > WHAT IS THE CPIO COMMAND TO EXTRACT THE SOFTWARE FROM THE CPIO FILE? > > > PUT THAT IN YOUR README YOU LEFT OUT. > > IS IS TOO DIFFICULT TO SIMPLY CREATE A .TAR.GZ FILE??? HELLO! > > INFORMIX PLEASE TURN OFF THE LIGHTS, CLOSE THE DOORS AND GO HOME. > > YOU ARE DONE. They _are_, aren't they... Every day that goes, the chance of me bying Informix (again) is getting smaller and smaller. I was looking forward to IDS 2000 for a Internet-database project next month, but Sybase (and possible Oracle) looks better for each day that goes. Thomas

Calm down. cpio -ivcBdum < file IDS has been packaged like this for as long as I can remember. Tim Schaefer wrote: > > Informix, > > For the IDS 2000 software download that was not announced at all, > that I found out about from some guy in Russia, you boneheads decided > to distribute the Iconnect as an RPM file AGAIN, inside a ZIP file for > chrisshakes and the IDS software as a CPIO FILE. I can't remember > the last time I used CPIO. Was it for a tape drive or something > like that?????? Who is in charge of final distribution decisions > at Informix?? Are you people purposely trying to run the company > into the ground again? > > WHAT IS THE CPIO COMMAND TO EXTRACT THE SOFTWARE FROM THE CPIO FILE? > > PUT THAT IN YOUR README YOU LEFT OUT. > > IS IS TOO DIFFICULT TO SIMPLY CREATE A .TAR.GZ FILE??? HELLO! > > INFORMIX PLEASE TURN OFF THE LIGHTS, CLOSE THE DOORS AND GO HOME. > > YOU ARE DONE. > -- > . > .- > .-- > .--- > .---- Tim Schaefer > .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net > .---- http://www.inxutil.com > .--- http://www.datad.com > .-- > .- > .

Timmy boy, the cpio command line has always been the same, and it is even documented in the installation guide for unix or even the installation guide for IDS 2000 for unix and linux. both of which you can get off http://www.informix.com/answers And, errr, what is the problem with man cpio? -- Ciao, Marco ______________________________________________________________________________ Marco Greco <marco@informix.com> Standard disclaimers apply! Informix faq http://www.iiug.org/techinfo/faq/informix.htm 4glworks http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog Informix on Linux http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog/ifmxlinux.htm

Timmy boy, the cpio command line has always been the same, and it is even documented in the installation guide for unix or even the installation guide for IDS 2000 for unix and linux. both of which you can get off http://www.informix.com/answers And, errr, what is the problem with man cpio? -- Ciao, Marco ______________________________________________________________________________ Marco Greco <marco@informix.com> Standard disclaimers apply! Informix faq http://www.iiug.org/techinfo/faq/informix.htm 4glworks http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog Informix on Linux http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog/ifmxlinux.htm

Timmy boy, the cpio command line has always been the same, and it is even documented in the installation guide for unix or even the installation guide for IDS 2000 for unix and linux. both of which you can get off http://www.informix.com/answers And, errr, what is the problem with man cpio? -- Ciao, Marco ______________________________________________________________________________ Marco Greco <marco@informix.com> Standard disclaimers apply! Informix faq http://www.iiug.org/techinfo/faq/informix.htm 4glworks http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog Informix on Linux http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog/ifmxlinux.htm

Sorry Marco me boy, but the documentation for the informix install is wrong. As you may or may not know, yesterday the solution came from a guy in Informix Dublin. The correct options are: cpio -ivdumB < filename The one at the URL: http://www.informix.com/informix/resource/install/ids2000/0920uc1/in_svr/index.html may work for UNIX but does not work for Linux. The -c option caused the problems, which if it hadn't been for your guy in Dublin I'd have never figured this out. I was ready to delete it when a close associate of yours emailed the solution to me. Just not enough time in the day to dick around with this. Regarding "man cpio" THIS IS A WASTE OF MY TIME. When is the last time you used CPIO???? I NEVER USE IT. Neither do most of the people I know. Imagine new-to-informix people having to wade through cpio docs when everybody else is using .tar.gz files. HELLO! Does WinZip support CPIO? NO. The manpages for CPIO are really rich on Linux, imagine a new customer getting this. And Marco, let me ask you a question, why does Informix insist on putting a tar file inside an RPM file? Is this stupid or what??? RPM is intended to be used as an installation tool, not an encapsulation of a tar file. The correct way is to put a tar file out in compressed form using gzip or zip. I have been installing informix software for quite a few years. This CPIO problem is not new, and quite frankly it doesn't affect my professionalism or my manhood to NEVER use CPIO. It's a complete waste of time to have to wade through docs like the above URL. If I'm off track then ask yourself the question, why is Informix the only one doing this???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, please go through this: 1. download software.zip go through hell and back with intraware.com the lousiest, slow-as-mud website on planet earth. Get lost at intraware.com with their mess of a website hunting for software. 2. unzip ( not gzip -d ) software.zip Gotta have zip on your UNIX/LINUX system. unzip either extracts a monster file or extracts right into a nasty-name directory the informix files. Did I ask zip to do this? No, it did it for me even if I wasn't wanting to. It doesn't always work the same way so I don't know what's going to happen. Better use a new scratch directory, hope I got enough disk space, god only knows what's inside. 3. In the case of ids.2k I now have a monster cpio file. Why do I have a cpio file? The CSDK came in a zip containing an RPM containing a tar file. This is rich. So what's the RPM for? Anyway, now I have to wade through cpio docs to try to figure out what options to use. Let's see, uh... drool forming... And RPM docs which were written for martians. 4. Oh yeah, regarding the RPM of the CSDK file, what was that RPM option??? Fortunately I can use kpackage to extract the RPM into a bogus directory, then get the tar file out for the install at my leisure. sheesh! 5. Once I figured out with the help of people half a world away what to do with the cpio file, I now have an extraction in a directory I didn't want it in. So, I now tar cvf ../ids.tar . this directory and can now re-extract the software in the directory I want. 6. Untar ids.tar where I want it. 7. Run informix installation script as root. 8. Actually set up the server's ONCONFIG and dbspaces. Had the software been distributed as a simple ids.tar.gz file I could have: 1. downloaded ids.tar.gz ( This should be from informix.com not intraware.com ) 2. gzip -d ids.tar WHERE I WANT IT. 3. tar xvf ids.tar into the directory I want 4. Run Informix installation scripts. 5. Set up server. While it appears I've save a couple of steps, there are several hours saved if I don't have to dick around with installation media that were prepared by morons. There are some of out here in the real work world where time is money. I have spent HOURS WORKING AROUND INFORMIX INSTALLATION FU**UPS. ( The real IIF ) Between this install, lack of marketing, dumb press releases about RedHat and Informix, OnWeb and its' extra Perl, yadayadayadayada, my patience with Informix is running thin to none. I seriously will be working with Oracle in the near future, this time no kidding. Informix is done. They are just fu**ing done. It's too much to support a company with such great products but also such rank stupidity with installation and marketing. Tim Marco Greco wrote: > > Timmy boy, the cpio command line has always been the same, and it is even > documented in the installation guide for unix or even the installation guide > for IDS 2000 for unix and linux. both of which you can get off > http://www.informix.com/answers > And, errr, what is the problem with man cpio? > -- > Ciao, > Marco > ______________________________________________________________________________ > Marco Greco <marco@informix.com> Standard disclaimers apply! > > Informix faq http://www.iiug.org/techinfo/faq/informix.htm > 4glworks http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog > Informix on Linux http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog/ifmxlinux.htm -- . .- .-- .--- .---- Tim Schaefer .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net .---- http://www.inxutil.com .--- http://www.datad.com .-- .- .

Sorry Marco me boy, but the documentation for the informix install is wrong. As you may or may not know, yesterday the solution came from a guy in Informix Dublin. The correct options are: cpio -ivdumB < filename The one at the URL: http://www.informix.com/informix/resource/install/ids2000/0920uc1/in_svr/index.html may work for UNIX but does not work for Linux. The -c option caused the problems, which if it hadn't been for your guy in Dublin I'd have never figured this out. I was ready to delete it when a close associate of yours emailed the solution to me. Just not enough time in the day to dick around with this. Regarding "man cpio" THIS IS A WASTE OF MY TIME. When is the last time you used CPIO???? I NEVER USE IT. Neither do most of the people I know. Imagine new-to-informix people having to wade through cpio docs when everybody else is using .tar.gz files. HELLO! Does WinZip support CPIO? NO. The manpages for CPIO are really rich on Linux, imagine a new customer getting this. And Marco, let me ask you a question, why does Informix insist on putting a tar file inside an RPM file? Is this stupid or what??? RPM is intended to be used as an installation tool, not an encapsulation of a tar file. The correct way is to put a tar file out in compressed form using gzip or zip. I have been installing informix software for quite a few years. This CPIO problem is not new, and quite frankly it doesn't affect my professionalism or my manhood to NEVER use CPIO. It's a complete waste of time to have to wade through docs like the above URL. If I'm off track then ask yourself the question, why is Informix the only one doing this???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, please go through this: 1. download software.zip go through hell and back with intraware.com the lousiest, slow-as-mud website on planet earth. Get lost at intraware.com with their mess of a website hunting for software. 2. unzip ( not gzip -d ) software.zip Gotta have zip on your UNIX/LINUX system. unzip either extracts a monster file or extracts right into a nasty-name directory the informix files. Did I ask zip to do this? No, it did it for me even if I wasn't wanting to. It doesn't always work the same way so I don't know what's going to happen. Better use a new scratch directory, hope I got enough disk space, god only knows what's inside. 3. In the case of ids.2k I now have a monster cpio file. Why do I have a cpio file? The CSDK came in a zip containing an RPM containing a tar file. This is rich. So what's the RPM for? Anyway, now I have to wade through cpio docs to try to figure out what options to use. Let's see, uh... drool forming... And RPM docs which were written for martians. 4. Oh yeah, regarding the RPM of the CSDK file, what was that RPM option??? Fortunately I can use kpackage to extract the RPM into a bogus directory, then get the tar file out for the install at my leisure. sheesh! 5. Once I figured out with the help of people half a world away what to do with the cpio file, I now have an extraction in a directory I didn't want it in. So, I now tar cvf ../ids.tar . this directory and can now re-extract the software in the directory I want. 6. Untar ids.tar where I want it. 7. Run informix installation script as root. 8. Actually set up the server's ONCONFIG and dbspaces. Had the software been distributed as a simple ids.tar.gz file I could have: 1. downloaded ids.tar.gz ( This should be from informix.com not intraware.com ) 2. gzip -d ids.tar WHERE I WANT IT. 3. tar xvf ids.tar into the directory I want 4. Run Informix installation scripts. 5. Set up server. While it appears I've save a couple of steps, there are several hours saved if I don't have to dick around with installation media that were prepared by morons. There are some of out here in the real work world where time is money. I have spent HOURS WORKING AROUND INFORMIX INSTALLATION FU**UPS. ( The real IIF ) Between this install, lack of marketing, dumb press releases about RedHat and Informix, OnWeb and its' extra Perl, yadayadayadayada, my patience with Informix is running thin to none. I seriously will be working with Oracle in the near future, this time no kidding. Informix is done. They are just fu**ing done. It's too much to support a company with such great products but also such rank stupidity with installation and marketing. Tim Marco Greco wrote: > > Timmy boy, the cpio command line has always been the same, and it is even > documented in the installation guide for unix or even the installation guide > for IDS 2000 for unix and linux. both of which you can get off > http://www.informix.com/answers > And, errr, what is the problem with man cpio? > -- > Ciao, > Marco > ______________________________________________________________________________ > Marco Greco <marco@informix.com> Standard disclaimers apply! > > Informix faq http://www.iiug.org/techinfo/faq/informix.htm > 4glworks http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog > Informix on Linux http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog/ifmxlinux.htm -- . .- .-- .--- .---- Tim Schaefer .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net .---- http://www.inxutil.com .--- http://www.datad.com .-- .- .

Sorry Marco me boy, but the documentation for the informix install is wrong. As you may or may not know, yesterday the solution came from a guy in Informix Dublin. The correct options are: cpio -ivdumB < filename The one at the URL: http://www.informix.com/informix/resource/install/ids2000/0920uc1/in_svr/index.html may work for UNIX but does not work for Linux. The -c option caused the problems, which if it hadn't been for your guy in Dublin I'd have never figured this out. I was ready to delete it when a close associate of yours emailed the solution to me. Just not enough time in the day to dick around with this. Regarding "man cpio" THIS IS A WASTE OF MY TIME. When is the last time you used CPIO???? I NEVER USE IT. Neither do most of the people I know. Imagine new-to-informix people having to wade through cpio docs when everybody else is using .tar.gz files. HELLO! Does WinZip support CPIO? NO. The manpages for CPIO are really rich on Linux, imagine a new customer getting this. And Marco, let me ask you a question, why does Informix insist on putting a tar file inside an RPM file? Is this stupid or what??? RPM is intended to be used as an installation tool, not an encapsulation of a tar file. The correct way is to put a tar file out in compressed form using gzip or zip. I have been installing informix software for quite a few years. This CPIO problem is not new, and quite frankly it doesn't affect my professionalism or my manhood to NEVER use CPIO. It's a complete waste of time to have to wade through docs like the above URL. If I'm off track then ask yourself the question, why is Informix the only one doing this???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, please go through this: 1. download software.zip go through hell and back with intraware.com the lousiest, slow-as-mud website on planet earth. Get lost at intraware.com with their mess of a website hunting for software. 2. unzip ( not gzip -d ) software.zip Gotta have zip on your UNIX/LINUX system. unzip either extracts a monster file or extracts right into a nasty-name directory the informix files. Did I ask zip to do this? No, it did it for me even if I wasn't wanting to. It doesn't always work the same way so I don't know what's going to happen. Better use a new scratch directory, hope I got enough disk space, god only knows what's inside. 3. In the case of ids.2k I now have a monster cpio file. Why do I have a cpio file? The CSDK came in a zip containing an RPM containing a tar file. This is rich. So what's the RPM for? Anyway, now I have to wade through cpio docs to try to figure out what options to use. Let's see, uh... drool forming... And RPM docs which were written for martians. 4. Oh yeah, regarding the RPM of the CSDK file, what was that RPM option??? Fortunately I can use kpackage to extract the RPM into a bogus directory, then get the tar file out for the install at my leisure. sheesh! 5. Once I figured out with the help of people half a world away what to do with the cpio file, I now have an extraction in a directory I didn't want it in. So, I now tar cvf ../ids.tar . this directory and can now re-extract the software in the directory I want. 6. Untar ids.tar where I want it. 7. Run informix installation script as root. 8. Actually set up the server's ONCONFIG and dbspaces. Had the software been distributed as a simple ids.tar.gz file I could have: 1. downloaded ids.tar.gz ( This should be from informix.com not intraware.com ) 2. gzip -d ids.tar WHERE I WANT IT. 3. tar xvf ids.tar into the directory I want 4. Run Informix installation scripts. 5. Set up server. While it appears I've save a couple of steps, there are several hours saved if I don't have to dick around with installation media that were prepared by morons. There are some of out here in the real work world where time is money. I have spent HOURS WORKING AROUND INFORMIX INSTALLATION FU**UPS. ( The real IIF ) Between this install, lack of marketing, dumb press releases about RedHat and Informix, OnWeb and its' extra Perl, yadayadayadayada, my patience with Informix is running thin to none. I seriously will be working with Oracle in the near future, this time no kidding. Informix is done. They are just fu**ing done. It's too much to support a company with such great products but also such rank stupidity with installation and marketing. Tim Marco Greco wrote: > > Timmy boy, the cpio command line has always been the same, and it is even > documented in the installation guide for unix or even the installation guide > for IDS 2000 for unix and linux. both of which you can get off > http://www.informix.com/answers > And, errr, what is the problem with man cpio? > -- > Ciao, > Marco > ______________________________________________________________________________ > Marco Greco <marco@informix.com> Standard disclaimers apply! > > Informix faq http://www.iiug.org/techinfo/faq/informix.htm > 4glworks http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog > Informix on Linux http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog/ifmxlinux.htm -- . .- .-- .--- .---- Tim Schaefer .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net .---- http://www.inxutil.com .--- http://www.datad.com .-- .- .

Tim Schaefer wrote: > Sorry Marco me boy, but > > the documentation for the informix install is wrong. As you may or may not > know, yesterday the solution came from a guy in Informix Dublin. The correct > options are: > > cpio -ivdumB < filename > > The one at the URL: > > http://www.informix.com/informix/resource/install/ids2000/0920uc1/in_svr/index.html > > may work for UNIX but does not work for Linux. The -c option caused the problems, > which if it hadn't been for your guy in Dublin I'd have never figured this out. > I was ready to delete it when a close associate of yours emailed the solution to > me. Just not enough time in the day to dick around with this. > > Regarding "man cpio" THIS IS A WASTE OF MY TIME. When is the last time you > used CPIO???? I NEVER USE IT. Neither do most of the people I know. Imagine > new-to-informix people having to wade through cpio docs when everybody else > is using .tar.gz files. HELLO! Does WinZip support CPIO? NO. The manpages > for CPIO are really rich on Linux, imagine a new customer getting this. > > And Marco, let me ask you a question, why does Informix insist on putting a tar file > inside an RPM file? Is this stupid or what??? RPM is intended to be used as an > installation tool, not an encapsulation of a tar file. The correct way is to put > a tar file out in compressed form using gzip or zip. > > I have been installing informix software for quite a few years. This CPIO problem is > not new, and quite frankly it doesn't affect my professionalism or my manhood to > NEVER use CPIO. It's a complete waste of time to have to wade through docs like > the above URL. If I'm off track then ask yourself the question, why is Informix > the only one doing this???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, please go through this: > > 1. download software.zip > go through hell and back with intraware.com the lousiest, slow-as-mud website > on planet earth. Get lost at intraware.com with their mess of a website > hunting for software. > > 2. unzip ( not gzip -d ) software.zip Gotta have zip on your UNIX/LINUX > system. unzip either extracts a monster file or extracts right into a > nasty-name directory the informix files. Did I ask zip to do this? No, > it did it for me even if I wasn't wanting to. It doesn't always work the > same way so I don't know what's going to happen. Better use a new scratch > directory, hope I got enough disk space, god only knows what's inside. > > 3. In the case of ids.2k I now have a monster cpio file. Why do I have a cpio > file? The CSDK came in a zip containing an RPM containing a tar file. > This is rich. So what's the RPM for? Anyway, now I have to wade through > cpio docs to try to figure out what options to use. Let's see, uh... > drool forming... And RPM docs which were written for martians. > > 4. Oh yeah, regarding the RPM of the CSDK file, what was that RPM option??? > Fortunately I can use kpackage to extract the RPM into a bogus directory, > then get the tar file out for the install at my leisure. sheesh! > > 5. Once I figured out with the help of people half a world away what to do > with the cpio file, I now have an extraction in a directory I didn't want > it in. So, I now tar cvf ../ids.tar . this directory and can now re-extract > the software in the directory I want. > > 6. Untar ids.tar where I want it. > > 7. Run informix installation script as root. > > 8. Actually set up the server's ONCONFIG and dbspaces. > > Had the software been distributed as a simple ids.tar.gz file I could have: > > 1. downloaded ids.tar.gz > ( This should be from informix.com not intraware.com ) > > 2. gzip -d ids.tar WHERE I WANT IT. > > 3. tar xvf ids.tar into the directory I want > > 4. Run Informix installation scripts. > > 5. Set up server. > > While it appears I've save a couple of steps, there are several hours saved if > I don't have to dick around with installation media that were prepared by > morons. There are some of out here in the real work world where time is > money. I have spent HOURS WORKING AROUND INFORMIX INSTALLATION FU**UPS. > ( The real IIF ) > > Between this install, lack of marketing, dumb press releases about RedHat > and Informix, OnWeb and its' extra Perl, yadayadayadayada, my patience with > Informix is running thin to none. I seriously will be working with Oracle > in the near future, this time no kidding. Informix is done. They are just > fu**ing done. It's too much to support a company with such great products > but also such rank stupidity with installation and marketing. > > Tim > > Marco Greco wrote: > > > > Timmy boy, the cpio command line has always been the same, and it is even > > documented in the installation guide for unix or even the installation guide > > for IDS 2000 for unix and linux. both of which you can get off > > http://www.informix.com/answers > > And, errr, what is the problem with man cpio? > > -- > > Ciao, > > Marco > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > Marco Greco <marco@informix.com> Standard disclaimers apply! > > > > Informix faq http://www.iiug.org/techinfo/faq/informix.htm > > 4glworks http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog > > Informix on Linux http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog/ifmxlinux.htm > > -- > . > .- > .-- > .--- > .---- Tim Schaefer > .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net > .---- http://www.inxutil.com > .--- http://www.datad.com > .-- > .- > . If you did seriously consider Oracle, you may find that QueriX can be of help to you (Provided you are using 4GL as a language) and you will find all products are distributed either as .tz or .zip. -- Compliments of QueriX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QueriX 4GL Compilers are Informix 4GL Compatible. Some features are: True Windows GUI Clients. ActiveX support. HTML Report Generation. More rigorous error handling. Connection to all versions of Informix 4GL with no need to change compiler. Connection to other RDBMS such as Oracle. For more details visit: http://www.querix.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim Schaefer wrote: > Sorry Marco me boy, but > > the documentation for the informix install is wrong. As you may or may not > know, yesterday the solution came from a guy in Informix Dublin. The correct > options are: > > cpio -ivdumB < filename > > The one at the URL: > > http://www.informix.com/informix/resource/install/ids2000/0920uc1/in_svr/index.html > > may work for UNIX but does not work for Linux. The -c option caused the problems, > which if it hadn't been for your guy in Dublin I'd have never figured this out. > I was ready to delete it when a close associate of yours emailed the solution to > me. Just not enough time in the day to dick around with this. > > Regarding "man cpio" THIS IS A WASTE OF MY TIME. When is the last time you > used CPIO???? I NEVER USE IT. Neither do most of the people I know. Imagine > new-to-informix people having to wade through cpio docs when everybody else > is using .tar.gz files. HELLO! Does WinZip support CPIO? NO. The manpages > for CPIO are really rich on Linux, imagine a new customer getting this. > > And Marco, let me ask you a question, why does Informix insist on putting a tar file > inside an RPM file? Is this stupid or what??? RPM is intended to be used as an > installation tool, not an encapsulation of a tar file. The correct way is to put > a tar file out in compressed form using gzip or zip. > > I have been installing informix software for quite a few years. This CPIO problem is > not new, and quite frankly it doesn't affect my professionalism or my manhood to > NEVER use CPIO. It's a complete waste of time to have to wade through docs like > the above URL. If I'm off track then ask yourself the question, why is Informix > the only one doing this???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, please go through this: > > 1. download software.zip > go through hell and back with intraware.com the lousiest, slow-as-mud website > on planet earth. Get lost at intraware.com with their mess of a website > hunting for software. > > 2. unzip ( not gzip -d ) software.zip Gotta have zip on your UNIX/LINUX > system. unzip either extracts a monster file or extracts right into a > nasty-name directory the informix files. Did I ask zip to do this? No, > it did it for me even if I wasn't wanting to. It doesn't always work the > same way so I don't know what's going to happen. Better use a new scratch > directory, hope I got enough disk space, god only knows what's inside. > > 3. In the case of ids.2k I now have a monster cpio file. Why do I have a cpio > file? The CSDK came in a zip containing an RPM containing a tar file. > This is rich. So what's the RPM for? Anyway, now I have to wade through > cpio docs to try to figure out what options to use. Let's see, uh... > drool forming... And RPM docs which were written for martians. > > 4. Oh yeah, regarding the RPM of the CSDK file, what was that RPM option??? > Fortunately I can use kpackage to extract the RPM into a bogus directory, > then get the tar file out for the install at my leisure. sheesh! > > 5. Once I figured out with the help of people half a world away what to do > with the cpio file, I now have an extraction in a directory I didn't want > it in. So, I now tar cvf ../ids.tar . this directory and can now re-extract > the software in the directory I want. > > 6. Untar ids.tar where I want it. > > 7. Run informix installation script as root. > > 8. Actually set up the server's ONCONFIG and dbspaces. > > Had the software been distributed as a simple ids.tar.gz file I could have: > > 1. downloaded ids.tar.gz > ( This should be from informix.com not intraware.com ) > > 2. gzip -d ids.tar WHERE I WANT IT. > > 3. tar xvf ids.tar into the directory I want > > 4. Run Informix installation scripts. > > 5. Set up server. > > While it appears I've save a couple of steps, there are several hours saved if > I don't have to dick around with installation media that were prepared by > morons. There are some of out here in the real work world where time is > money. I have spent HOURS WORKING AROUND INFORMIX INSTALLATION FU**UPS. > ( The real IIF ) > > Between this install, lack of marketing, dumb press releases about RedHat > and Informix, OnWeb and its' extra Perl, yadayadayadayada, my patience with > Informix is running thin to none. I seriously will be working with Oracle > in the near future, this time no kidding. Informix is done. They are just > fu**ing done. It's too much to support a company with such great products > but also such rank stupidity with installation and marketing. > > Tim > > Marco Greco wrote: > > > > Timmy boy, the cpio command line has always been the same, and it is even > > documented in the installation guide for unix or even the installation guide > > for IDS 2000 for unix and linux. both of which you can get off > > http://www.informix.com/answers > > And, errr, what is the problem with man cpio? > > -- > > Ciao, > > Marco > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > Marco Greco <marco@informix.com> Standard disclaimers apply! > > > > Informix faq http://www.iiug.org/techinfo/faq/informix.htm > > 4glworks http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog > > Informix on Linux http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog/ifmxlinux.htm > > -- > . > .- > .-- > .--- > .---- Tim Schaefer > .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net > .---- http://www.inxutil.com > .--- http://www.datad.com > .-- > .- > . If you did seriously consider Oracle, you may find that QueriX can be of help to you (Provided you are using 4GL as a language) and you will find all products are distributed either as .tz or .zip. -- Compliments of QueriX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QueriX 4GL Compilers are Informix 4GL Compatible. Some features are: True Windows GUI Clients. ActiveX support. HTML Report Generation. More rigorous error handling. Connection to all versions of Informix 4GL with no need to change compiler. Connection to other RDBMS such as Oracle. For more details visit: http://www.querix.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim Schaefer wrote: > Sorry Marco me boy, but > > the documentation for the informix install is wrong. As you may or may not > know, yesterday the solution came from a guy in Informix Dublin. The correct > options are: > > cpio -ivdumB < filename > > The one at the URL: > > http://www.informix.com/informix/resource/install/ids2000/0920uc1/in_svr/index.html > > may work for UNIX but does not work for Linux. The -c option caused the problems, > which if it hadn't been for your guy in Dublin I'd have never figured this out. > I was ready to delete it when a close associate of yours emailed the solution to > me. Just not enough time in the day to dick around with this. > > Regarding "man cpio" THIS IS A WASTE OF MY TIME. When is the last time you > used CPIO???? I NEVER USE IT. Neither do most of the people I know. Imagine > new-to-informix people having to wade through cpio docs when everybody else > is using .tar.gz files. HELLO! Does WinZip support CPIO? NO. The manpages > for CPIO are really rich on Linux, imagine a new customer getting this. > > And Marco, let me ask you a question, why does Informix insist on putting a tar file > inside an RPM file? Is this stupid or what??? RPM is intended to be used as an > installation tool, not an encapsulation of a tar file. The correct way is to put > a tar file out in compressed form using gzip or zip. > > I have been installing informix software for quite a few years. This CPIO problem is > not new, and quite frankly it doesn't affect my professionalism or my manhood to > NEVER use CPIO. It's a complete waste of time to have to wade through docs like > the above URL. If I'm off track then ask yourself the question, why is Informix > the only one doing this???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, please go through this: > > 1. download software.zip > go through hell and back with intraware.com the lousiest, slow-as-mud website > on planet earth. Get lost at intraware.com with their mess of a website > hunting for software. > > 2. unzip ( not gzip -d ) software.zip Gotta have zip on your UNIX/LINUX > system. unzip either extracts a monster file or extracts right into a > nasty-name directory the informix files. Did I ask zip to do this? No, > it did it for me even if I wasn't wanting to. It doesn't always work the > same way so I don't know what's going to happen. Better use a new scratch > directory, hope I got enough disk space, god only knows what's inside. > > 3. In the case of ids.2k I now have a monster cpio file. Why do I have a cpio > file? The CSDK came in a zip containing an RPM containing a tar file. > This is rich. So what's the RPM for? Anyway, now I have to wade through > cpio docs to try to figure out what options to use. Let's see, uh... > drool forming... And RPM docs which were written for martians. > > 4. Oh yeah, regarding the RPM of the CSDK file, what was that RPM option??? > Fortunately I can use kpackage to extract the RPM into a bogus directory, > then get the tar file out for the install at my leisure. sheesh! > > 5. Once I figured out with the help of people half a world away what to do > with the cpio file, I now have an extraction in a directory I didn't want > it in. So, I now tar cvf ../ids.tar . this directory and can now re-extract > the software in the directory I want. > > 6. Untar ids.tar where I want it. > > 7. Run informix installation script as root. > > 8. Actually set up the server's ONCONFIG and dbspaces. > > Had the software been distributed as a simple ids.tar.gz file I could have: > > 1. downloaded ids.tar.gz > ( This should be from informix.com not intraware.com ) > > 2. gzip -d ids.tar WHERE I WANT IT. > > 3. tar xvf ids.tar into the directory I want > > 4. Run Informix installation scripts. > > 5. Set up server. > > While it appears I've save a couple of steps, there are several hours saved if > I don't have to dick around with installation media that were prepared by > morons. There are some of out here in the real work world where time is > money. I have spent HOURS WORKING AROUND INFORMIX INSTALLATION FU**UPS. > ( The real IIF ) > > Between this install, lack of marketing, dumb press releases about RedHat > and Informix, OnWeb and its' extra Perl, yadayadayadayada, my patience with > Informix is running thin to none. I seriously will be working with Oracle > in the near future, this time no kidding. Informix is done. They are just > fu**ing done. It's too much to support a company with such great products > but also such rank stupidity with installation and marketing. > > Tim > > Marco Greco wrote: > > > > Timmy boy, the cpio command line has always been the same, and it is even > > documented in the installation guide for unix or even the installation guide > > for IDS 2000 for unix and linux. both of which you can get off > > http://www.informix.com/answers > > And, errr, what is the problem with man cpio? > > -- > > Ciao, > > Marco > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > Marco Greco <marco@informix.com> Standard disclaimers apply! > > > > Informix faq http://www.iiug.org/techinfo/faq/informix.htm > > 4glworks http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog > > Informix on Linux http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog/ifmxlinux.htm > > -- > . > .- > .-- > .--- > .---- Tim Schaefer > .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net > .---- http://www.inxutil.com > .--- http://www.datad.com > .-- > .- > . If you did seriously consider Oracle, you may find that QueriX can be of help to you (Provided you are using 4GL as a language) and you will find all products are distributed either as .tz or .zip. -- Compliments of QueriX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QueriX 4GL Compilers are Informix 4GL Compatible. Some features are: True Windows GUI Clients. ActiveX support. HTML Report Generation. More rigorous error handling. Connection to all versions of Informix 4GL with no need to change compiler. Connection to other RDBMS such as Oracle. For more details visit: http://www.querix.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Man What a maroon! "Mehdi@QueriX" wrote: [SNIP] Here you have a heated discussion about cpio and this moron decides to spam about his product. Anyone using queriX? WHO CARES. I know I won't even consider recommending it to any client. But back to the discussion at hand. CPIO is a very useful tool. Along with DD, but hey, who uses DD at all these days. (Besides me.) Tim, On the *real* flavors of UNIX, if my memory serves me correctly, you are prompted to try it without the -c option. As to the dumB, its pretty much a standard way of remembering the options that you should use. The fact that Informix doesn't standardize on one product, is a disappointment. Oh well, have fun and stay off that baby sitter! -Mikey

Mike Segel wrote: > > Man What a maroon! > > "Mehdi@QueriX" wrote: > [SNIP] > > Here you have a heated discussion about cpio and this moron decides to spam about his product. > > Anyone using queriX? WHO CARES. I know I won't even consider recommending it to any client. > > But back to the discussion at hand. > > CPIO is a very useful tool. Along with DD, but hey, who uses DD at all these days. (Besides me.) > > Tim, > On the *real* flavors of UNIX, if my memory serves me correctly, you are prompted to try it without > the -c option. > As to the dumB, its pretty much a standard way of remembering the options that you should use. > > The fact that Informix doesn't standardize on one product, is a disappointment. > > Oh well, have fun and stay off that baby sitter! > > -Mikey Mikey, The fact that a program exists is not an excuse to use it. CPIO is the wrong media plain and simple for software distribution. It is not in mainstream use, especially in LinuxLand, where the de facto standard is gzipped tar files. In case anyone hadn't noticed Linux was originally distributed this way in distributions like Slackware, which is still to this day primarily .tgz files. A tar file is much easier to manage, and can easily be opened in Windows98, or NT, after downloading it to make sure it is in good shape. Nope, in the course of my days and weeks day in and day out of whatever it is that I do, I never EVER use CPIO. You can argue the merits of CPIO until you are blue in the face and it will not convince me of its worth. DD on the other hand has merit, and quite useful for a variety of tasks. Gzipped tar files are the standard plain and simple. But let me ask you Informix people, when your competition is keeping you down, don't you think you owe it to yourself to keep from blundering too badly? All those lost opportunities, all the kickings in the teeth from me, when is enough going to be enough for somebody with some balls to stand up and show they have enough pride in Informix to stand up for the company? It's very sad to see the spineless, lump of flesh Informix has become, rather than kicking ass with some decent marketing, and some people to talk up the products. But hey, I guess I ask too much. Tim -- . .- .-- .--- .---- Tim Schaefer .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net .---- http://www.inxutil.com .--- http://www.datad.com .-- .- .

With all respect Mike you have not read all Tim wrote. Tim who put the the question forward stated he was seriously thinking of moving to Oracle, I was just stating that if his applications are written in 4GL, he would not be loosing anything by doing so. You think you have to convince him to use CPIO while you should be trying to convince Informix to provide other formats as well as CPIO, that would be more to Tim's liking. For god sake you are Informix Users, do you have no right to complain, or put forward ideas? Mike Segel wrote: > Man What a maroon! > > "Mehdi@QueriX" wrote: > [SNIP] > > Here you have a heated discussion about cpio and this moron decides to spam about his product. > > Anyone using queriX? WHO CARES. I know I won't even consider recommending it to any client. > > But back to the discussion at hand. > > CPIO is a very useful tool. Along with DD, but hey, who uses DD at all these days. (Besides me.) > > Tim, > On the *real* flavors of UNIX, if my memory serves me correctly, you are prompted to try it without > the -c option. > As to the dumB, its pretty much a standard way of remembering the options that you should use. > > The fact that Informix doesn't standardize on one product, is a disappointment. > > Oh well, have fun and stay off that baby sitter! > > -Mikey -- Compliments of QueriX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QueriX 4GL Compilers are Informix 4GL Compatible. Some features are: True Windows GUI Clients. ActiveX support. HTML Report Generation. More rigorous error handling. Connection to other RDBMS such as Oracle. Connection to all versions of Informix 4GL with no need to change compiler. For more details visit: http://www.querix.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Timmy boy - if you complain about the fact that on linux we ship in 3 different formats, that I can take. That the installation guide does not point out that on linux it's cpio -ivdumB rather than -icvdumB, ok it's a doc bug. But that cpio shouldn't be used because you don't consider it mainstream it's pushing it a bit too far. These days most of our products are shipped with cpio files, and you are the first to complain in years. doesn't that tell you something? -- Ciao, Marco ______________________________________________________________________________ Marco Greco <marco@informix.com> Standard disclaimers apply! Informix faq http://www.iiug.org/techinfo/faq/informix.htm 4glworks http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog Informix on Linux http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog/ifmxlinux.htm

Yes, Marco, It tells me you aren't paying attention to what the rest of the software community is doing or to what I've been saying. And the internal thread is continuing from what I hear. You are using typical techie-speak: Customer is wrong Informix is right. In the future of this business, say it with me class, what is the right answer? Customer Relationship Management. The customer is first, the seller second. You guys can vote for dd and cpio all you want, but take a look at the market. Look at the world outside Informix and the answer is right in front of you. The fact that I'm "the only one to complain" does not necessarily mean that I'm the only one having a problem with this. If you intend to use logic with me, get it right. The idea that you can use cpio and all the options may make you "superior" in your own mind, and me the dummy, but all it really says is that you want to be right instead of focusing on the real problem, which is in correcting an inconsistent product release strategy for UNIX and Linux. And that Marco is wasted energy on me instead of the problem. Tim Marco Greco wrote: > > Timmy boy - if you complain about the fact that on linux we ship in 3 different > formats, that I can take. > That the installation guide does not point out that on linux it's cpio -ivdumB > rather than -icvdumB, ok it's a doc bug. > But that cpio shouldn't be used because you don't consider it mainstream it's > pushing it a bit too far. These days most of our products are shipped with cpio > files, and you are the first to complain in years. doesn't that tell you > something? > -- > Ciao, > Marco > ______________________________________________________________________________ > Marco Greco <marco@informix.com> Standard disclaimers apply! > > Informix faq http://www.iiug.org/techinfo/faq/informix.htm > 4glworks http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog > Informix on Linux http://www.ctonline.it/~marcog/ifmxlinux.htm -- . .- .-- .--- .---- Tim Schaefer .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net .---- http://www.inxutil.com .--- http://www.datad.com .-- .- .

Medhi, Thanks. I found your orginial posting humorous to say the least, and maybe a bit of enterprise, but did understand you were only trying to help. :-) Tim Mehdi / QueriX wrote: > > With all respect Mike you have not read all Tim wrote. Tim who put the the question forward stated he > was seriously thinking of moving to Oracle, I was just stating that if his applications are written in > 4GL, he would not be loosing anything by doing so. You think you have to convince him to use CPIO while > you should be trying to convince Informix to provide other formats as well as CPIO, that would be more > to Tim's liking. For god sake you are Informix Users, do you have no right to complain, or put forward > ideas? > > > -- > Compliments of QueriX > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > QueriX 4GL Compilers are Informix 4GL Compatible. Some features are: > > True Windows GUI Clients. ActiveX support. HTML Report Generation. > More rigorous error handling. Connection to other RDBMS such as Oracle. > Connection to all versions of Informix 4GL with no need to change compiler. > > For more details visit: http://www.querix.com/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- . .- .-- .--- .---- Tim Schaefer .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net .---- http://www.inxutil.com .--- http://www.datad.com .-- .- .

In article <382BACBA.C181D5AF@bellsouth.net>, Tim Schaefer <tschaefe@bellsouth.net> wrote: >The fact that a program exists is not an excuse to use it. CPIO is the wrong media plain >and simple for software distribution. It is not in mainstream use, especially in LinuxLand, Have you honestly never heard of .rpm files? Are you completely unaware that RPMs are implemented internally as cpio and can easily be converted to plain cpio files? This is *exactly* why IDS.2000 was shipped as cpio, and why IIF.2000 (following shortly after) will ship as RPM. (IDS.2000 would have also shipped as RPM, but it had to enter finalQA before the new, one-step RPM install was approved... since IIF.2000 was following so soon after, they chose cpio for now.) And for those who dislike RPM: you can just convert the .rpm file into a cpio file and then perform a traditional UNIX-like install using that cpio file, using the standard "rpm2cpio" utility. (And if your distro lacks it, you can download an up-to-date version of rpm and rpm2cpio from www.rpm.org). This is all addressed in an article on the subject on the Tips and Techniques page of the Linux Corner of the Informix web site. And the RPM versions for IIF.2000 and 2.4 ClientSDK/Connect will now be one-step installs, where all the prompts for serial/key/directories/ role-separation/etc. will be processed within the rpm command itself -- no need to run a separate script after the fact... >Nope, in the course of my days and weeks day in and day out of whatever it is that I do, >I never EVER use CPIO. If you "never EVER use cpio", then you never ever use RPMs, which means that you never ever use any version of Linux on which IDS or IIF has been certified... so the issue seems moot. [-: -- Alan Denney yosemite at accesscom.com "I have an army to raise, and I must get to Nicaragua. I require a window seat and an in-flight Happy Meal. And NO PICKLES! Oh, God HELP you if I find PICKLES!" -- Baby Stewie in "The Family Guy"

Tim Schaefer wrote: > > Mike Segel wrote: > > > > Man What a maroon! > > > > "Mehdi@QueriX" wrote: > > [SNIP] > > > > Here you have a heated discussion about cpio and this moron decides to spam about his product. > > > > Anyone using queriX? WHO CARES. I know I won't even consider recommending it to any client. > > > > But back to the discussion at hand. > > > > CPIO is a very useful tool. Along with DD, but hey, who uses DD at all these days. (Besides me.) > > > > Tim, > > On the *real* flavors of UNIX, if my memory serves me correctly, you are prompted to try it without > > the -c option. > > As to the dumB, its pretty much a standard way of remembering the options that you should use. > > > > The fact that Informix doesn't standardize on one product, is a disappointment. > > > > Oh well, have fun and stay off that baby sitter! > > > > -Mikey > > Mikey, > > The fact that a program exists is not an excuse to use it. CPIO is the wrong media plain > and simple for software distribution. It is not in mainstream use, especially in LinuxLand, > where the de facto standard is gzipped tar files. In case anyone hadn't noticed Linux > was originally distributed this way in distributions like Slackware, which is still to this > day primarily .tgz files. A tar file is much easier to manage, and can easily be opened > in Windows98, or NT, after downloading it to make sure it is in good shape. > > Nope, in the course of my days and weeks day in and day out of whatever it is that I do, > I never EVER use CPIO. You can argue the merits of CPIO until you are blue in the face and > it will not convince me of its worth. DD on the other hand has merit, and quite useful for > a variety of tasks. Gzipped tar files are the standard plain and simple. > > But let me ask you Informix people, when your competition is keeping you down, don't you > think you owe it to yourself to keep from blundering too badly? All those lost opportunities, > all the kickings in the teeth from me, when is enough going to be enough for somebody with > some balls to stand up and show they have enough pride in Informix to stand up for the company? > > It's very sad to see the spineless, lump of flesh Informix has become, rather than kicking ass > with some decent marketing, and some people to talk up the products. But hey, I guess I ask > too much. > > Tim > -- > . > .- > .-- > .--- > .---- Tim Schaefer > .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net > .---- http://www.inxutil.com > .--- http://www.datad.com > .-- > .- > . Sorry I have to: dd is especially useful if you dd off a tape to pipe into tar on a RS6K, is it?? Try it, Tim & you will immediately start to love cpio I dont want to blame tgz files, but have you ever had a problem with a CRC on a block & not recoverable: That's why we invented pax - ages ago. Yes me too in those days no parkinson & brain was working -- Richard Kofler debis Systemhaus EDVg - Vienna on a private account

Marco Greco <marco@informix.com> writes: > Timmy boy - if you complain about the fact that on linux we ship in 3 different > formats, that I can take. That's not a problem, _wrong_ format is a problem... > That the installation guide does not point out that on linux it's cpio -ivdumB > rather than -icvdumB, ok it's a doc bug. And it supports the idea of using anything _else_ than cpio... > But that cpio shouldn't be used because you don't consider it mainstream it's > pushing it a bit too far. Mainstream or not, what's the argument _for_ cpio? > These days most of our products are shipped with cpio > files, and you are the first to complain in years. doesn't that tell you > something? Marco, this is how the nice people at Microsoft talk when you tell them about bugs and stupid designs... ...never heard of this problem before... ...you _are_ the first to complain... ...our research shows that our customers are very happy with our products... Thomas

In article <uemds3xd7.fsf@ose.no>, Thomas Parsli <thomas.parsli@ose.no> wrote: >Mainstream or not, what's the argument _for_ cpio? As I stated earlier, RPM was the format chosen for Linux. (In fact, Red Hat required that any packages to be included on their app CDs *must* be in RPM.) Now, RPM itself uses cpio. Therefore, by packaging in RPM, you cover two bases: those who like RPM can just install the package as is, and those who don't STILL can easily convert the .rpm file to a "plain" cpio file using the rpm2cpio utility, and then use the traditional UNIX installation flow. (The method is described in detail on the IDN Tips and Techniques page.) Therefore, you satisfy both audiences (except for Tim, of course) while having to do installation Q.A. on just one format, and still retain eligibility to get on the Red Hat app CDs. -- Alan Denney yosemite at accesscom.com Flanders: "I have a pounding headache, my mouth tastes like vomit, and I don't remember a thing!" Homer: "Welcome to my world."

Alan, I'm curious how RPM will fit into the future of software packaging and if it is indeed the right distribution model for software. Just because RedHat requires it, have you really thought out all the scenarios? For example, in the course of actually installing Informix software on a typical UNIX/Linux system, I may want several distributions of the software on ONE machine at the same time. A simple matter of changing a few environment variables and I can change what the "current" version is. Does RPM support this kind of environment? I don't know, neither do I want to know. So, I may not know enough about RPM, and could be dead wrong as to it's usefulness, but I am curious why RedHat would INSIST on a particular distribution model, when they are supposedly embracing an open-source operating system. And since they are simply selling a distribution of software packages, how do they know what is the right model for Informix software? Imagine for example, taking RedHat's advice on data warehousing. What do they know about that? :-) The other curious thing is that instead of creating the problem in the first place with a cpio archive, why not simply make a tar distribution available at the same time? You actually save a few steps and allow those of us a cleaner path to install with. This idea of cpio, and RPM, and rpm2cpio, if applied to other industries, would seem silly to say the least. Imagine selling a green car to me, even though I wanted a red one, and tell me to simply run green2red software to get the car red. Tim Colonel Panic wrote: > > In article <uemds3xd7.fsf@ose.no>, Thomas Parsli <thomas.parsli@ose.no> wrote: > >Mainstream or not, what's the argument _for_ cpio? > > As I stated earlier, RPM was the format chosen for Linux. (In fact, Red > Hat required that any packages to be included on their app CDs *must* > be in RPM.) > > Now, RPM itself uses cpio. Therefore, by packaging in RPM, you cover > two bases: those who like RPM can just install the package as is, and > those who don't STILL can easily convert the .rpm file to a "plain" > cpio file using the rpm2cpio utility, and then use the traditional > UNIX installation flow. (The method is described in detail on the IDN > Tips and Techniques page.) > > Therefore, you satisfy both audiences (except for Tim, of course) > while having to do installation Q.A. on just one format, and still > retain eligibility to get on the Red Hat app CDs. > > -- > Alan Denney yosemite at accesscom.com > Flanders: "I have a pounding headache, my mouth tastes like vomit, and > I don't remember a thing!" > Homer: "Welcome to my world." -- . .- .-- .--- .---- Tim Schaefer .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net .---- http://www.inxutil.com .--- http://www.datad.com .-- .- .

In article <3831FA20.F546CF23@bellsouth.net>, Tim Schaefer <tschaefe@bellsouth.net> wrote: >For example, in the course of actually installing Informix software on >a typical UNIX/Linux system, I may want several distributions of the >software on ONE machine at the same time. A simple matter of changing >a few environment variables and I can change what the "current" version >is. Does RPM support this kind of environment? Not if they have the same package name -- it assumes that you "really want" to *replace* such a package, not install it twice. A minority of users would want this scenario, but it's certainly a nonzero number. That's why this is an example of such a reason why someone might want to use the plain-cpio install, and that is why the Tips & Techniques writeup on rpm2cpio usage mentions this as an example of why a given user might want to do so. (Heck, that's how I have MY machines set up.) Believe it or not, some coporate-Linux-users look askance at commercial packages *not* being in RPM, or so that's the feedback. The only way to satisfy both camps without doubling (or worse) the QA problem is the give-em-RPM-but-invite-them-to-bail-on-it-via-rpm2cpio strategy. An "unhappy medium", as it were. Properly documented, I still think it's the best attainable solution. >So, I may not know enough about RPM, and could be dead wrong as to it's >usefulness, but I am curious why RedHat would INSIST on a particular >distribution model, when they are supposedly embracing an open-source >operating system. RPM is an EXTREMELY useful method for what it was designed for -- packages that include source that need install-time building done. This model is not so useful for pure-binary packages for which an established installation wrapper already exists (e.g. Informix products). Certainly, the least favorable case is how IDS <=7.30.UD7 was packaged -- use RPM wrapping but don't integrate the installs into a single step. But this was redesigned with the new RPM install (which is used in Client/ Connect 2.40 and Foundation.2000) so that the RPM install performs the Informix install, but you STILL can optionally extract the cpio for a "plain" install using cpio. > And since they are simply selling a distribution of >software packages, how do they know what is the right model for Informix >software? Imagine for example, taking RedHat's advice on data warehousing. >What do they know about that? :-) Since they could buy and sell us both a dozen times over, does it matter? [-: >The other curious thing is that instead of creating the problem in the >first place with a cpio archive, why not simply make a tar distribution >available at the same time? You actually save a few steps and allow >those of us a cleaner path to install with. This would QUADRUPLE the "FinalQA" process, which is a much worse hit than you can imagine. And it would just produce a package you couldn't put onto Intraware anyway. -- Alan Denney yosemite at accesscom.com "People disagree with me. I just ignore them." -- Linus Torvalds

Colonel Panic wrote: > > In article <3831FA20.F546CF23@bellsouth.net>, > Tim Schaefer <tschaefe@bellsouth.net> wrote: > >For example, in the course of actually installing Informix software on > >a typical UNIX/Linux system, I may want several distributions of the > >software on ONE machine at the same time. A simple matter of changing > >a few environment variables and I can change what the "current" version > >is. Does RPM support this kind of environment? > > Not if they have the same package name -- it assumes that you "really > want" to *replace* such a package, not install it twice. > > A minority of users would want this scenario, but it's certainly a > nonzero number. I ALWAYS install a new Informix version in a new subdirectory so that I can easily, and quickly, back out the version if there is a problem without having to reinstall. This is also the way I have always recommended that new versions be installed here on CDI. I cannot fathom how you can assume that to want to do so is so rare that a 'minority' of users will do this especially when you intimate that you yourself do not overwrite older versions with new ones. Art S. Kagel