need tool to compare IDS 11.7 vs. MSSQLServer 2008
Jim Cramer asked for a free, cross-platform (Windows/Linux) OLTP benchmark to compare IDS 11.7 against SQL Server 2008 R2, mainly to counter sysadmins' claims about Informix. Suggestions: the open-source TPC-C-like benchmark used in Advanced DataTools' "Fastest Informix DBA" contest (possibly needing the original version to work with SQL Server), and TPC-C/TPC-E kits from tpc.org. Respondents warned that no Informix TPC results have been published since the 1990s, that vendor benchmark numbers are tuned/unreliable, and that licence terms may forbid publishing results. No single tool was settled on and no benchmark results were reported.
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Hi, Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. We have: 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD and 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the test. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Jim Cramer Database Administrator and Applications Developer III University of Iowa College of Engineering Engineering Computer Systems Support 1256 SC Iowa City, Iowa 52245 (319)-335-5757 jim-cramer@uiowa.edu jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu http://www.uiowa.edu
Hello Mr Jim! You could use the same performance metrics adopted by the contest Fastest Informix DBA, promoted by our sponsors from Advanced Data Tools: http://www.advancedatatools.com/Informix/index.html Check it out, if you need some additional info you could contact them. Obs: of course this would be an interesting benchmark, so if you could send us all your result reports, this would be great!!! Hope it helps. Em 31/03/2011 14:37, Jim Cramer escreveu: > Hi, > > Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program > that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can > use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? > > I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two > types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences > that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not > have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) > dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to > benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. > > We have: > 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD > > and > > 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD > > Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate > memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the > test. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jim Cramer > Database Administrator and > Applications Developer III > University of Iowa > College of Engineering > Engineering Computer Systems Support > 1256 SC > Iowa City, Iowa 52245 > (319)-335-5757 > jim-cramer@uiowa.edu > jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu > http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu > http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu > http://www.uiowa.edu > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Alexandre Marini Tecnologia da Informação - DBA msn: alexandre_marini@hotmail.com SEFAZ-MS / SGI-UGSR / Sistemas IBM-Informix Cert-Info-Mgmt_color <Cert-Info-Mgmt_color.jpg> IBM Certified System Administrator - Informix Dynamic Server V10 / V11 <http://www.iiug.org/conf/2011/iiug/>;
I suggest the TPC benchmarks. http://www.tpc.org j. Mar 31, 2011 06:38:05 PM, ids@iiug.org wrote: =========================================== Hi, Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. We have: 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD and 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the test. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Jim Cramer Database Administrator and Applications Developer III University of Iowa College of Engineering Engineering Computer Systems Support 1256 SC Iowa City, Iowa 52245 (319)-335-5757 jim-cramer@uiowa.edu jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu http://www.uiowa.edu ******************************************************************************* Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
Hi Alexandre, I will have a look for these metrics on Lester's site. And I definitely will share my results with this list, no matter how it turns out. What I need desperately is some kind of quantitative tool that gives a performance comparison of the two DBMS types. There are some "I know it all" Sys Admins here who are making baseless claims about Informix, and I would like to educate them a bit before their verbal spewing reaches gale force (whooppps, I never said that...). Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Marini Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:02 PM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: Re: need tool to compare IDS 11.7 vs. MSSQLSer.... [23259] Hello Mr Jim! You could use the same performance metrics adopted by the contest Fastest Informix DBA, promoted by our sponsors from Advanced Data Tools: http://www.advancedatatools.com/Informix/index.html Check it out, if you need some additional info you could contact them. Obs: of course this would be an interesting benchmark, so if you could send us all your result reports, this would be great!!! Hope it helps. Em 31/03/2011 14:37, Jim Cramer escreveu: > Hi, > > Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program > that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can > use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? > > I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two > types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences > that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not > have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) > dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to > benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. > > We have: > 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD > > and > > 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD > > Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate > memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the > test. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jim Cramer > Database Administrator and > Applications Developer III > University of Iowa > College of Engineering > Engineering Computer Systems Support > 1256 SC > Iowa City, Iowa 52245 > (319)-335-5757 > jim-cramer@uiowa.edu > jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu > http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu > http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu > http://www.uiowa.edu > > > **************************************************************************** *** > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Alexandre Marini Tecnologia da Informação - DBA msn: alexandre_marini@hotmail.com SEFAZ-MS / SGI-UGSR / Sistemas IBM-Informix Cert-Info-Mgmt_color <Cert-Info-Mgmt_color.jpg> IBM Certified System Administrator - Informix Dynamic Server V10 / V11 <http://www.iiug.org/conf/2011/iiug/>; **************************************************************************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
Thanks Jack. Would you suggest TPC-C OR TPC-E, for OLTP benchmarking? Jim -----Original Message----- From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of jack.parker4@verizon.net Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:43 PM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: Re: need tool to compare IDS 11.7 vs. MSSQLSer.... [23260] I suggest the TPC benchmarks. http://www.tpc.org j. Mar 31, 2011 06:38:05 PM, ids@iiug.org wrote: =========================================== Hi, Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. We have: 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD and 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the test. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Jim Cramer Database Administrator and Applications Developer III University of Iowa College of Engineering Engineering Computer Systems Support 1256 SC Iowa City, Iowa 52245 (319)-335-5757 jim-cramer@uiowa.edu jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu http://www.uiowa.edu **************************************************************************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. **************************************************************************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
fyi: Sadly enough, I cannot find Informix in any of the TPC Results on that web site. So, either the Informix Server did not make the top 10 in any of the categories, or they did not participate in those benchmarks. Jim -----Original Message----- From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of jack.parker4@verizon.net Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:43 PM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: Re: need tool to compare IDS 11.7 vs. MSSQLSer.... [23260] I suggest the TPC benchmarks. http://www.tpc.org j. Mar 31, 2011 06:38:05 PM, ids@iiug.org wrote: =========================================== Hi, Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. We have: 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD and 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the test. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Jim Cramer Database Administrator and Applications Developer III University of Iowa College of Engineering Engineering Computer Systems Support 1256 SC Iowa City, Iowa 52245 (319)-335-5757 jim-cramer@uiowa.edu jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu http://www.uiowa.edu **************************************************************************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. **************************************************************************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
IBM has not been doing benchmarks with Informix for a while. They're afraid of eclipsing db2. C or E - however you feel. But don't take the results shown there as the answer to your research. Each company paints themselves in the best possible light, by putting in just the right mix of hardware and release levels to make themselves look good. j. Mar 31, 2011 08:19:08 PM, ids@iiug.org wrote: =========================================== Thanks Jack. Would you suggest TPC-C OR TPC-E, for OLTP benchmarking? Jim -----Original Message----- From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of jack.parker4@verizon.net Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:43 PM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: Re: need tool to compare IDS 11.7 vs. MSSQLSer.... [23260] I suggest the TPC benchmarks. http://www.tpc.org j. Mar 31, 2011 06:38:05 PM, ids@iiug.org wrote: =========================================== Hi, Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. We have: 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD and 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the test. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Jim Cramer Database Administrator and Applications Developer III University of Iowa College of Engineering Engineering Computer Systems Support 1256 SC Iowa City, Iowa 52245 (319)-335-5757 jim-cramer@uiowa.edu jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu http://www.uiowa.edu **************************************************************************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. **************************************************************************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. ******************************************************************************* Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
Two points: 1- The benchmark ADTC uses for the Fastest DBA contest is an open source benchmark similar to the TCP/C (taken from the TCP specs) and modified to work with Informix. You may have to also get the original version to have it work with SQL Server. I don't know if the changes were extensive enough to break support for other RDBMS's. 2- Be VERY about careful publishing results of benchmarks. The EOLs for most of the RDBMS's explicitely prohibit you from doing so (Oracle's is especially nasty - they will sue you for your sox!). Don't know about SQL Server (or Informix for that matter, haven't read the Informix EOL in 20 years or so - certainly pre-IBM). Art Art S. Kagel Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com) Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/ Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves. On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Jim Cramer <jim-cramer@uiowa.edu> wrote: > Hi Alexandre, > > I will have a look for these metrics on Lester's site. > > And I definitely will share my results with this list, > no matter how it turns out. > > What I need desperately is some kind of quantitative tool > that gives a performance comparison of the two DBMS types. > > There are some "I know it all" Sys Admins here who are > making baseless claims about Informix, and I would like > to educate them a bit before their verbal spewing reaches > gale force (whooppps, I never said that...). > > Thanks, > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of > Alexandre Marini > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:02 PM > To: ids@iiug.org > Subject: Re: need tool to compare IDS 11.7 vs. MSSQLSer.... [23259] > > Hello Mr Jim! > You could use the same performance metrics adopted by the contest > Fastest Informix DBA, promoted by our sponsors from Advanced Data Tools: > http://www.advancedatatools.com/Informix/index.html > > Check it out, if you need some additional info you could contact them. > > Obs: of course this would be an interesting benchmark, so if you could > send us all > your result reports, this would be great!!! > > Hope it helps. > > Em 31/03/2011 14:37, Jim Cramer escreveu: > > Hi, > > > > Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program > > that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can > > use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? > > > > I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two > > types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences > > that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not > > have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) > > dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to > > benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. > > > > We have: > > 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD > > > > and > > > > 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD > > > > Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate > > memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the > > test. > > > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Jim Cramer > > Database Administrator and > > Applications Developer III > > University of Iowa > > College of Engineering > > Engineering Computer Systems Support > > 1256 SC > > Iowa City, Iowa 52245 > > (319)-335-5757 > > jim-cramer@uiowa.edu > > jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu > > http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu > > http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu > > http://www.uiowa.edu > > > > > > > > **************************************************************************** > *** > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > -- > > Alexandre Marini > > Tecnologia da Informação - DBA > > msn: alexandre_marini@hotmail.com > > SEFAZ-MS / SGI-UGSR / Sistemas IBM-Informix > > Cert-Info-Mgmt_color <Cert-Info-Mgmt_color.jpg> > > IBM Certified System Administrator - Informix Dynamic Server V10 / V11 > > <http://www.iiug.org/conf/2011/iiug/>; > > > **************************************************************************** > *** > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --20cf307c9c3c8927fb049fcd6fba
Last Informix benchmark (TPC) was done even before IBM acquired Informix. I don't think the site has benchmarks that old (certainly not in top 10). Informix was benchmarked with Baan (at least in version 10). So, no, you will not find any published benchmark comparable against other databases. To be honest, and I should not be saying this, current TPC-C benchmarks are completely useless. Unless you're trying to measure how well you're able to twist them to suite your needs :) This is my personal opinion and it's by no way endorsed by my employer. Now... I'm not sure if the person suggesting the TPC was suggesting you to consult published results, or otherwise was suggesting you use the scripts/data/queries used in those benchmarks. Bare in mind that a benchmark is no more than a particular application. The systems are twisted to behave the best possible in that environment. Doing something like what you want can be an extremely interesting project, not because the results but because the process itself. And the results will depend on several factors: - knowledge on the technologies you'll be using - Ability to measure - Ability to spot contention spots - Ability to understand the results - How well the different databases handle that particular case To improve your experience don't forget to read Andrew Ford's blob: http://www.informix-dba.com/2010_05_01_archive.html Either way, it would be interesting to know what are the opinions of your SysAdmins. In particular, if they have any critics to Informix, let us explore them. Regards and good luck. On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Jim Cramer <jim-cramer@uiowa.edu> wrote: > fyi: > > Sadly enough, I cannot find Informix in any of the TPC Results > on that web site. > > So, either the Informix Server did not make the top 10 in any > of the categories, or they did not participate in those > benchmarks. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of > jack.parker4@verizon.net > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:43 PM > To: ids@iiug.org > Subject: Re: need tool to compare IDS 11.7 vs. MSSQLSer.... [23260] > > I suggest the TPC benchmarks. > > http://www.tpc.org > > j. > > Mar 31, 2011 06:38:05 PM, ids@iiug.org wrote: > > =========================================== > > Hi, > > Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program > that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can > use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? > > I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two > types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences > that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not > have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) > dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to > benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. > > We have: > 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD > > and > > 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD > > Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate > memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the > test. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jim Cramer > Database Administrator and > Applications Developer III > University of Iowa > College of Engineering > Engineering Computer Systems Support > 1256 SC > Iowa City, Iowa 52245 > (319)-335-5757 > jim-cramer@uiowa.edu > jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu > http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu > http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu > http://www.uiowa.edu > > > **************************************************************************** > *** > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > **************************************************************************** > *** > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently... --001636d348664f08f5049fcd99b2
Informix did not benchmark after about 1996 and IBM has never yet benchmarked Informix. Probably afraid that Informix will show up DB2. Art Art S. Kagel Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com) Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/ Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves. On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Jim Cramer <jim-cramer@uiowa.edu> wrote: > fyi: > > Sadly enough, I cannot find Informix in any of the TPC Results > on that web site. > > So, either the Informix Server did not make the top 10 in any > of the categories, or they did not participate in those > benchmarks. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of > jack.parker4@verizon.net > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:43 PM > To: ids@iiug.org > Subject: Re: need tool to compare IDS 11.7 vs. MSSQLSer.... [23260] > > I suggest the TPC benchmarks. > > http://www.tpc.org > > j. > > Mar 31, 2011 06:38:05 PM, ids@iiug.org wrote: > > =========================================== > > Hi, > > Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program > that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can > use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? > > I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two > types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences > that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not > have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) > dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to > benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. > > We have: > 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD > > and > > 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD > > Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate > memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the > test. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jim Cramer > Database Administrator and > Applications Developer III > University of Iowa > College of Engineering > Engineering Computer Systems Support > 1256 SC > Iowa City, Iowa 52245 > (319)-335-5757 > jim-cramer@uiowa.edu > jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu > http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu > http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu > http://www.uiowa.edu > > > **************************************************************************** > *** > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > **************************************************************************** > *** > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --20cf307abcbd0d4921049fce0cc9
If any of us put ourselves in the decision shoes, the problem is easy to understand and was clearly explained by Jerry. Only 1 of three things could happen: - Same result as DB2 No one would believe it - Better Bad -Worse Bad And DB2 has been participating in the TPC-C wars for long. Regards. On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Art Kagel <art.kagel@gmail.com> wrote: > Informix did not benchmark after about 1996 and IBM has never yet > benchmarked Informix. Probably afraid that Informix will show up DB2. > > Art > > Art S. Kagel > Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com) > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/ > > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions > and > do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any other > organization with which I am associated either explicitly, implicitly, or > by > inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of other individuals > affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the > entities themselves. > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Jim Cramer <jim-cramer@uiowa.edu> wrote: > > > fyi: > > > > Sadly enough, I cannot find Informix in any of the TPC Results > > on that web site. > > > > So, either the Informix Server did not make the top 10 in any > > of the categories, or they did not participate in those > > benchmarks. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of > > jack.parker4@verizon.net > > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:43 PM > > To: ids@iiug.org > > Subject: Re: need tool to compare IDS 11.7 vs. MSSQLSer.... [23260] > > > > I suggest the TPC benchmarks. > > > > http://www.tpc.org > > > > j. > > > > Mar 31, 2011 06:38:05 PM, ids@iiug.org wrote: > > > > =========================================== > > > > Hi, > > > > Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program > > that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can > > use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? > > > > I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two > > types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences > > that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not > > have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) > > dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to > > benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. > > > > We have: > > 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD > > > > and > > > > 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD > > > > Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate > > memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the > > test. > > > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Jim Cramer > > Database Administrator and > > Applications Developer III > > University of Iowa > > College of Engineering > > Engineering Computer Systems Support > > 1256 SC > > Iowa City, Iowa 52245 > > (319)-335-5757 > > jim-cramer@uiowa.edu > > jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu > > http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu > > http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu > > http://www.uiowa.edu > > > > > > > **************************************************************************** > > *** > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > > **************************************************************************** > > *** > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > --20cf307abcbd0d4921049fce0cc9 > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently... --0015174c34ae0ff87c049fce1ba8
First, everyone please note that I did not start this. I simply stated that there have not been Informix benchmarks in over 14 years and expressed my opinion that at least part of the reason might be that Informix might show up DB2. I did not get into the wherefores and did not berate IBM for not publishing. Now Fernando has opened the door, as attorney's say, so I am free to comment and I expect that there will be no flack coming back to me over this post. Fernando, you ignore the current option that IBM has been selecting over and over for ten years: No benchmark - worst of all. No benchmark shows a lack of commitment to the product. Anyone who is considering Informix is asked "Why are you doing that? IBM isn't supporting Informix anymore! Look, they haven't even published a benchmark for it!" Oh, and product benchmarks like the BAAN benchmark several years ago or the SAP benchmark that Informix published in the mid '90s don't count! Some say, "But the TCP-C & TPC-E are artificial and don't reflect real world! Not only that, everyone knows all of the RDBMS vendors use tricks to make the results look good!" Yet, everyone wants to see the numbers. The bottom line is if IBM really wants to delight the current Informix user community and attract new business - if they are not just trying to shut us all up (and I hope they are not doing so) - if they expect the world to now take Informix seriously - IBM MUST MUST MUST publish a TCP-C benchmark with Informix and they have to do it soon. This is no new position for me. I have held it since the purchase and I have been vocal to all of the IBM executives on the subject. Why do I say that a benchmark is mandatory? Let me start by saying that I do believe that IBM is serious about Informix. Finally! They have no choice. They started this Smarter Metering, Smarter Monitoring, Smarter Cities, Smarter Planet campaign then when they started to get inquiries from customers about helping them set such things up or from users of other databases who have started projects to make it work which failed or who were struggling with performance problems and storage overload. When they started looking into what database could handle the data volume they realized that there is only one, IBM owns it, and it isn't DB2! Informix with TimeSeries is the only database that can handle the data volume and do it with as much as 70% less storage than Oracle or DB2! So, IBM has no choice but to sell Informix now and I am aware of at least four active projects that IBM is involved in where they have done just that. "OK, so, they are selling Informix without a benchmark", you might say. Well, not really. One of those projects involves five separate databases: an operational/billing database, a timeseries database, and three levels of data warehouse. IBM's consultants proposed that Informix be used for all five. The client has decided to use Oracle for all but the timeseries server. Why? There's no benchmark. How can they know that Informix will be able to handle the operational load or perform the analytical queries in a timely manner? They know how Oracle will perform from other projects. They have no evidence that Informix isn't just optimized for timeseries because there are no benchmarks saying otherwise. So IBM sold PVUs for one server when they could have sold PVUs for five (and that's not counting replication servers for the operational server). I don't know if it is Jerry K. or Rob or Arvind or someone else who is so adament about not benchmarking, but someone needs to change his/her mind, and fast! Nuff said! Art Art S. Kagel Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com) Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/ Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves. On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Fernando Nunes <domusonline@gmail.com>wrote: > If any of us put ourselves in the decision shoes, the problem is easy to > understand and was clearly explained by Jerry. > Only 1 of three things could happen: > > - Same result as DB2 > No one would believe it > > - Better > Bad > > -Worse > Bad > > And DB2 has been participating in the TPC-C wars for long. > Regards. > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Art Kagel <art.kagel@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Informix did not benchmark after about 1996 and IBM has never yet > > benchmarked Informix. Probably afraid that Informix will show up DB2. > > > > Art > > > > Art S. Kagel > > Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com) > > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/ > > > > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions > > and > > do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any > other > > organization with which I am associated either explicitly, implicitly, or > > by > > inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of other individuals > > affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the > > entities themselves. > > > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Jim Cramer <jim-cramer@uiowa.edu> > wrote: > > > > > fyi: > > > > > > Sadly enough, I cannot find Informix in any of the TPC Results > > > on that web site. > > > > > > So, either the Informix Server did not make the top 10 in any > > > of the categories, or they did not participate in those > > > benchmarks. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of > > > jack.parker4@verizon.net > > > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:43 PM > > > To: ids@iiug.org > > > Subject: Re: need tool to compare IDS 11.7 vs. MSSQLSer.... [23260] > > > > > > I suggest the TPC benchmarks. > > > > > > http://www.tpc.org > > > > > > j. > > > > > > Mar 31, 2011 06:38:05 PM, ids@iiug.org wrote: > > > > > > =========================================== > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program > > > that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can > > > use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? > > > > > > I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two > > > types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences > > > that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not > > > have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) > > > dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to > > > benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. > > > > > > We have: > > > 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD > > > > > > and > > > > > > 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD > > > > > > Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate > > > memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for
Jim, As several others have pointed out we used the Open Source BenchmarkSQL for the Fastest DBA Contest. And I have used it to test every new release of Informix since then. This is an OLTP benchmark using the BenchmarkSQL Java program to generate 100 sessions doing inserts, updates, and deletes against a database. BenchmarkSQL is an easy to use JDBC benchmark that closely resembles the TPC-C standard for OLTP. Databases supported include EnterpriseDB, PostgreSQL, Oracle, Sybase, SQLSvr, MySQL, HsqlDB, Derby/JavaDB & FireBird. See Source Forge at http://sourceforge.net/projects/benchmarksql/ for more information. Here is a link to more information - http://www.advancedatatools.com/Informix/index.html I just updated our website with a article on "How did they do it?" and a comparison of the ONCONFIG settings of the top 5 contestants. Let me know if you need any help with this. Regards - Lester On 3/31/11 2:37 PM, Jim Cramer wrote: > Hi, > > Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program > that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can > use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? > > I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two > types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences > that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not > have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large (Terabyte) > dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to > benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. > > We have: > 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD > > and > > 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD > > Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate > memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the > test. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jim Cramer > Database Administrator and > Applications Developer III > University of Iowa > College of Engineering > Engineering Computer Systems Support > 1256 SC > Iowa City, Iowa 52245 > (319)-335-5757 > jim-cramer@uiowa.edu > jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu > http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu > http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu > http://www.uiowa.edu > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > -- ______________________________________________________________________ Lester Knutsen lester@advancedatatools.com Advanced DataTools Corporation Voice: 703-256-0267 x102 Visit our Web page: http://www.advancedatatools.com ______________________________________________________________________
Hi Lester, It is awfully nice of you to send me the details about the Open Source Benchmark and how you it was used for the Fastest DBA contest. It looks like it supports what I need to test, MS SQLSvr, and IDS 11.7, so I will have a go at it. I will also use it to help me tune11.7, which I just went to. I tuned 10.0 and have started tuning 11.7 in a somewhat non-systematic way by using Server Studio's Load Test module and having it run groups of about 30 queries per group, with 3 sessions each running the same query, for a total of about 90 sessions. But besides having no systematic method for choosing which queries to use (I just pull queries to use out from various programs and db reports that we have developed), my method also has the shortcoming that there are no DELETES, INSERTS, UPDATES, or running of Stored Procedures being done. So thanks again and I will check into this benchmark. Sincerely, Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of > Lester Knutsen > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:52 PM > To: ids@iiug.org > Subject: Re: need tool to compare IDS 11.7 vs. MSSQLSer.... [23312] > > Jim, > > As several others have pointed out we used the Open Source BenchmarkSQL > for > the Fastest DBA Contest. And I have used it to test every new release > of > Informix since then. This is an OLTP benchmark using the BenchmarkSQL > Java > program to generate 100 sessions doing inserts, updates, and deletes > against a > database. BenchmarkSQL is an easy to use JDBC benchmark that closely > resembles > the TPC-C standard for OLTP. Databases supported include EnterpriseDB, > PostgreSQL, Oracle, Sybase, SQLSvr, MySQL, HsqlDB, Derby/JavaDB & > FireBird. > See Source Forge at http://sourceforge.net/projects/benchmarksql/ for > more > information. > > Here is a link to more information - > http://www.advancedatatools.com/Informix/index.html I just updated our > website > with a article on "How did they do it?" and a comparison of the > ONCONFIG > settings of the top 5 contestants. > > Let me know if you need any help with this. > > Regards - Lester > > On 3/31/11 2:37 PM, Jim Cramer wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Can anyone point me to a Public-Domain Data Base Benchmark Program > > that has been ported to both Windows and to Linux and which I can > > use to benchmark IDS vs. MSSQLServer? > > > > I do not need to make any kind of exhaustive comparison of the two > > types of servers, and I will take into account platform differences > > that could skew the results one way or another. And it does not > > have to be designed for Data Warehouse benchmarking of large > (Terabyte) > > dbs. Our largest one is about 10GB. In fact, I would prefer to > > benchmark OLTP performance instead of Data Warehouse performance. > > > > We have: > > 64-bit IDS 11.7 on x86_64 AMD > > > > and > > > > 64-bit MSSQLserver 2008 R2 on x86_64 AMD > > > > Both are VMs. I can give both more than adequate > > memory, disk space, and cpu/core resources for the > > test. > > > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Jim Cramer > > Database Administrator and > > Applications Developer III > > University of Iowa > > College of Engineering > > Engineering Computer Systems Support > > 1256 SC > > Iowa City, Iowa 52245 > > (319)-335-5757 > > jim-cramer@uiowa.edu > > jcramer@engineering.uiowa.edu > > http://css.engineering.uiowa.edu > > http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu > > http://www.uiowa.edu > > > > > > > *********************************************************************** > ******** > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > > > -- > ______________________________________________________________________ > Lester Knutsen lester@advancedatatools.com > Advanced DataTools Corporation Voice: 703-256-0267 x102 > Visit our Web page: http://www.advancedatatools.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > *********************************************************************** > ******** > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.