Re: No future for DB2
Not a technical support thread at all: it's a cross-posted flame war about whether TPC benchmark results say anything meaningful about DB2, Oracle or Informix performance. One poster cites TPC-C/TPC-H results showing DB2 performing well; others dismiss TPC (and Gartner) as worthless marketing material, with Matt Emmerton noting you should discount vendors who haven't published in two years. Much of the exchange is personal abuse and accusations that DA Morgan contradicted his own earlier use of TPC links. No technical problem is posed and no resolution is reached.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
bka apparently said,on my timestamp of 29/07/2005 1:57 AM: > This is not crawling: > WTF CARES? > http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp?id=104041401 Oh Gawd! Another tpc wanker... > No crawling is done on the 4 DB2 Windows results here: WTF CARES? > http://www.tpc.org/tpch/results/tpch_perf_results.asp?resulttype=&version=2 > and it goes on and on.... Haven't you got it yet? TPC is worth 0, zero, nada, zilch to establish ANYTHING about ANY product. Got it? Now, kindly take the tpc bullshit and shove it.
Noons <wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au> wrote in news:42ea36b7$0$5439$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au: > bka apparently said,on my timestamp of 29/07/2005 1:57 AM: > >> This is not crawling: >> > > WTF CARES? > > >> http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp?id=104041401 > > Oh Gawd! Another tpc wanker... > >> No crawling is done on the 4 DB2 Windows results here: > > WTF CARES? > > >> http://www.tpc.org/tpch/results/tpch_perf_results.asp?resulttype=&vers >> ion=2 >> > > and it goes on and on.... > > > > Haven't you got it yet? TPC is worth 0, zero, nada, zilch > to establish ANYTHING about ANY product. > Got it? Now, kindly take the tpc bullshit and shove it. > Please don't hide your feelings. Please share how you really feel about TPC results.
>> WTF, ...wanker, ...bullshit Thanks for elevating the tone of this discussion in your usual manner. Your professionalism and witty repartee are a beacon to us all. Your cut, you thrust, your rhetoical flourish, they leave us almost speechless. But there sure are a lot of company and product names on those TPC websites - can it really mean nothing?
"bka" <badamache@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1122663618.458987.158420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > >> WTF, ...wanker, ...bullshit > > Thanks for elevating the tone of this discussion in your usual manner. > Your professionalism and witty repartee are a beacon to us all. Your > cut, you thrust, your rhetoical flourish, they leave us almost > speechless. > > But there sure are a lot of company and product names on those TPC > websites - can it really mean nothing? If you look at those company names closely, and strike off anyone who hasn't published in the last 2 years, you will get a better sense of who is in the game and who is not. -- Matt Emmerton
Until Oracle is in the lead ... then it means something? Larry Noons wrote: > bka apparently said,on my timestamp of 29/07/2005 1:57 AM: > >> This is not crawling: >> > > WTF CARES? > > >> http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp?id=104041401 > > > Oh Gawd! Another tpc wanker... > >> No crawling is done on the 4 DB2 Windows results here: > > > WTF CARES? > > >> http://www.tpc.org/tpch/results/tpch_perf_results.asp?resulttype=&version=2 >> >> > > and it goes on and on.... > > > > Haven't you got it yet? TPC is worth 0, zero, nada, zilch > to establish ANYTHING about ANY product. > Got it? Now, kindly take the tpc bullshit and shove it.
Larry wrote: > Until Oracle is in the lead ... then it means something? > > Larry No ... those benchmarks are irrelevant period. It doesn't matter whether they show lightspeed or glacial. They are irrelevant as are the bribe-induced garbage that spews from Gartner and other shills. -- Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
"DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message news:1122685628.347635@yasure... > Larry wrote: > > Until Oracle is in the lead ... then it means something? > > > > Larry > > No ... those benchmarks are irrelevant period. It doesn't matter > whether they show lightspeed or glacial. They are irrelevant as > are the bribe-induced garbage that spews from Gartner and other > shills. You are saying this ????????? more than a year back I posted this:- " After all I know of many Informix installation which switched over to Oracle just because they know Oracle won't go away, even if it means shelling huge amount of money to get a performance not comparable with their earlier Informix one. " This was your response:- " If Informix performance is better than that of Oracle ... perhaps you would be so kind as to show me and others where that is demonstrated: http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/result s/tpcc_perf_results.asp?result type=all " This is the thread: http://tinyurl.com/ct6or I hate to say this, for an academician, your integrity is no better than Oracle sales rep. You keep changing your views based on convenience.
I don't think you could convince the Oracle marketing people of that for the temporary periods when they have been in the lead ... Larry DA Morgan wrote: > Larry wrote: > >> Until Oracle is in the lead ... then it means something? >> >> Larry > > > No ... those benchmarks are irrelevant period. It doesn't matter > whether they show lightspeed or glacial. They are irrelevant as > are the bribe-induced garbage that spews from Gartner and other > shills.
"DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message news:1122685628.347635@yasure... > No ... those [TPC]benchmarks are irrelevant period. It doesn't matter > whether they show lightspeed or glacial. They are irrelevant as > are the bribe-induced garbage that spews from Gartner and other > shills. > -- > Daniel A. Morgan Oracle Corporation is a founding member of the TPC and has been a very strong supporter of the organization over the years. Perhaps you should talk with Meikel Poess, Principal Software Developer, Oracle Corporation (I got this title form an email he sent to me). Meikel is (unless he has given up the post recently) is the Chairman of the TPC H and TPC-R Subcommittees, who helped me with the TPC dbgen program which generates data for the TPC-H benchmark. Meikel has written serveral articles about benchmarking in general and the TPC benchmarks in particular: "Generating Thousand Benchmark Queries in Seconds" by Meikel Poess and John M. Stephens, Jr. http://www.vldb.org/conf/2004/IND2P3.PDF "The authors would like to thank the TPC, and the members of the TPC-DS subcommittee for the contributions to this effort." "TPC-DS, Taking Decision Support Benchmarking to the Next Level," by Meikel P'ss, Bryan Smith, Lubor Koll'r, Per-Ake Larson Proceedings of the 2002 ACM SIGMOD international conference on Management of data http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=564691.564759 New TPC Benchmarks for Decision Support and Web Commerce" by Meikel Poess and Chris Floyd, ACM SIGMOD Record, Volume 29 Issue 4. http://www.sigmod.org/record/issues/0012/standards.pdf "For as long as there have been DBMS's and applications that use them, there has been interest in the performance characteristics that these systems exhibit. This month's column describes some of the recent work that has taken place in TPC, the Transaction Processing Performance Council." Have you no shame, Daniel A. Morgan.
rkusenet wrote: > "DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message > news:1122685628.347635@yasure... > >>Larry wrote: >> >>>Until Oracle is in the lead ... then it means something? >>> >>>Larry >> >>No ... those benchmarks are irrelevant period. It doesn't matter >>whether they show lightspeed or glacial. They are irrelevant as >>are the bribe-induced garbage that spews from Gartner and other >>shills. > > > You are saying this ????????? > > more than a year back I posted this:- > > " After all I know of many Informix installation > which switched over to Oracle just because they know Oracle won't > go away, even if it means shelling huge amount of money > to get a performance not comparable with their earlier Informix one. " > > This was your response:- > > " If Informix performance is better than that of Oracle ... perhaps you > would be so kind as to show me and others where that is demonstrated: > http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/result s/tpcc_perf_results.asp?result type=all > " > > This is the thread: > http://tinyurl.com/ct6or > > I hate to say this, for an academician, your integrity is no better than > Oracle > sales rep. You keep changing your views based on convenience. I was challenging you to put up evidence of a statement I considered baseless. The link was for purposes of encouragement. I have never altered my statements about TPC or Gartner or any of the this industry's other bottom feeders. -- Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Larry wrote: > I don't think you could convince the Oracle marketing people of that for > the temporary periods when they have been in the lead ... > > Larry I agree. But then I can't imagine why any serious technologist would feel otherwise. -- Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Comments in-line? Mark A wrote: > "DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message > news:1122685628.347635@yasure... > >>No ... those [TPC]benchmarks are irrelevant period. It doesn't matter >>whether they show lightspeed or glacial. They are irrelevant as >>are the bribe-induced garbage that spews from Gartner and other >>shills. >>-- >>Daniel A. Morgan > > > Oracle Corporation is a founding member of the TPC and has been a very > strong supporter of the organization over the years. Which is in what way relevant to my opinion of either TPC? > Perhaps you should talk with Meikel Poess, Principal Software Developer, > Oracle Corporation (I got this title form an email he sent to me). And in what way should the opinion of an employee of a software company influence my opinion? Lets change the name and say it was Larry himself. Do you think somehow his opinion on TPC is somehow going to influence or change mine? Do you think it should? Do you vote for the candidate put up by a political party even if he, or she, is a total moron? > Meikel is (unless he has given up the post recently) is the Chairman of the > TPC H and TPC-R Subcommittees, who helped me with the TPC dbgen program > which generates data for the TPC-H benchmark. You seem to be really hung up on authority figures and celebrity. Perhaps I should ask Paris Hilton what she thinks? > Meikel has written serveral articles about benchmarking in general and the > TPC benchmarks in particular: And I have written several articles on TPC being swill. What makes his opinion more important than mine? Which god or godess conferred upon anyone divine authority over whether my personal opinion is right or wrong? It is my opinion. He has his, he has his, and you have ... well apparently you have his opinion too. > Have you no shame, Daniel A. Morgan. Lots of shame. But none of it from saluting self-appointed authority figures. I teach at a university ... I didn't enlist in a clone army. Rather than pointing to some "authority" figure why don't you demonstrate use of synapses and offer up facts that you have personally verified the value of TPC benchmarks. <DISCLAIMER> Meikel: I have absolutely no problem with you or your opinion: Nothing here is intended to be personal. I just have no respect for people that think others should salute authority figures. The world needs people that can think for themselves and I've little doubt you would agree. But, yes, personally I think TPC is worthless except to marketing shills to use with customers like Mark. </DISCLAIMER> -- Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
bka apparently said,on my timestamp of 30/07/2005 5:00 AM: >>>WTF, ...wanker, ...bullshit > > > Thanks for elevating the tone of this discussion in your usual manner. > Your professionalism and witty repartee are a beacon to us all. Your > cut, you thrust, your rhetoical flourish, they leave us almost > speechless. > And you'll get EXACTLY this treatment every single time you or anyone else bring that TPC bullshit into a thread! And I don't give a rat's arse what you or ANYONE else think about that or how "elevated" you guess that should be. Got it at last, or do I need to be more explicit? > But there sure are a lot of company and product names on those TPC > websites - can it really mean nothing? > WTF CARES? -- Cheers Nuno Souto in sunny Sydney, Australia wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au.nospam
Larry apparently said,on my timestamp of 30/07/2005 8:37 AM: > Until Oracle is in the lead ... then it means something? No, mr lost-opportunity-to-STFU. Go back as much as you want in Usenet history and you'll find I have ALWAYS had this opinion about those morons at TPC. No matter who was in front in the past, now or in the future. -- Cheers Nuno Souto in sunny Sydney, Australia wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au.nospam
DA Morgan apparently said,on my timestamp of 30/07/2005 4:06 PM: > > > You seem to be really hung up on authority figures and celebrity. > Perhaps I should ask Paris Hilton what she thinks? > Bingo! Freaking defines this sorry lot to a "T", doesn't it? What a bunch of total losers... -- Cheers Nuno Souto in sunny Sydney, Australia wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au.nospam
DA Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote: >I was challenging you to put up evidence of a statement I considered >baseless. The link was for purposes of encouragement. I have never >altered my statements about TPC or Gartner or any of the this industry's >other bottom feeders. I prefer the term "detritovores". Paul... -- plinehan __at__ yahoo __dot__ __com__ XP Pro, SP 2, Oracle, 9.2.0.1.0 (Enterprise Ed.) Interbase 6.0.1.0; When asking database related questions, please give other posters some clues, like operating system, version of db being used and DDL. The exact text and/or number of error messages is useful (!= "it didn't work!"). Thanks. Furthermore, as a courtesy to those who spend time analysing and attempting to help, please do not top post.
DA Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote: >You seem to be really hung up on authority figures and celebrity. >Perhaps I should ask Paris Hilton what she thinks? If her (ahem.. home...) movies were part of the default Oracle install, I'd reckon that Oracle sales' figures would go up! Any chance of a job with Oracle marketing? Paul... -- plinehan __at__ yahoo __dot__ __com__ XP Pro, SP 2, Oracle, 9.2.0.1.0 (Enterprise Ed.) Interbase 6.0.1.0; When asking database related questions, please give other posters some clues, like operating system, version of db being used and DDL. The exact text and/or number of error messages is useful (!= "it didn't work!"). Thanks. Furthermore, as a courtesy to those who spend time analysing and attempting to help, please do not top post.
"DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message news:1122702459.361664@yasure... > I was challenging you to put up evidence of a statement I considered > baseless. The link was for purposes of encouragement. I have never > altered my statements about TPC or Gartner or any of the this industry's > other bottom feeders. Hmm interesting. You were willing to quote tpc benchmarks to refute the anecdotal reference I know where Informix performed better than Oracle. If tpc is meaningless (which is what you are saying now), then your reply to me a year back was equally meaningless. Read it again and tell me whether it makes any sense, in the context of your present feelings of TPC-C. " If Informix performance is better than that of Oracle ... perhaps you would be so kind as to show me and others where that is demonstrated: http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/result s/tpcc_perf_results.asp?result type=all "
Paul wrote: > > > > DA Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote: > > >>I was challenging you to put up evidence of a statement I considered >>baseless. The link was for purposes of encouragement. I have never >>altered my statements about TPC or Gartner or any of the this industry's >>other bottom feeders. > > > > I prefer the term "detritovores". > > > > Paul... Good word ... with your permission I'd like to flatter you through plagiarism. -- Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Paul wrote: > > > DA Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote: > > > >>You seem to be really hung up on authority figures and celebrity. >>Perhaps I should ask Paris Hilton what she thinks? > > > > If her (ahem.. home...) movies were part of the default Oracle > install, I'd reckon that Oracle sales' figures would go up! Any chance > of a job with Oracle marketing? > > > > Paul... With apologies ... It would certainly make a good marketing image for ease of installation. -- Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)