Re: IDS 2000 SOFTWARE
A largely opinion-driven thread (spun off from complaints about IDS 2000 media) arguing over how Informix should package its software distributions. Tim Schaefer insisted cpio (and dd, RPM) are unsuitable for software distribution and that tar is the mainstream choice; others defended cpio's usefulness and noted cpio was the traditional System V shipping format, while tar had its own portability problems. Art Kagel's main complaint was Informix's inconsistent packaging across products (cpio, RPM, zip via Intraware) and the unpublished results of an earlier format survey. No resolution or official answer is recorded, just a request for a consistent format.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
"Art S. Kagel" wrote: > > Mike Segel wrote: > > > > Man What a maroon! > > > > "Mehdi@QueriX" wrote: > > [SNIP] > > > > Here you have a heated discussion about cpio and this moron decides to spam about his product. > > > > Anyone using queriX? WHO CARES. I know I won't even consider recommending it to any client. > > > > But back to the discussion at hand. > > > > CPIO is a very useful tool. Along with DD, but hey, who uses DD at all these days. (Besides me.) > > I do, I do! > > > Tim, > > On the *real* flavors of UNIX, if my memory serves me correctly, you are prompted to try it without > > the -c option. > > As to the dumB, its pretty much a standard way of remembering the options that you should use. > > > > The fact that Informix doesn't standardize on one product, is a disappointment. > > > > Oh well, have fun and stay off that baby sitter! > > > > -Mikey > > Art S. Kagel Me too. I think everyone who went thru Sun's desaster with incompatible tar (at the end of SunOS4 times) does. Am I wrong ? Tim, I can assure you: cpio rox! -- Richard Kofler debis Systemhaus EDVg - Vienna on a private account
No not cpio, dd. I use dd. I cannot fathom cpio and I'm using UNIX for going on 14 years now. I only use cpio when I have to and I don't like it even then. Art S. Kagel Richard Kofler wrote: > > "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > > > > Mike Segel wrote: > > > > > > Man What a maroon! > > > > > > "Mehdi@QueriX" wrote: > > > [SNIP] > > > > > > Here you have a heated discussion about cpio and this moron decides to spam about his product. > > > > > > Anyone using queriX? WHO CARES. I know I won't even consider recommending it to any client. > > > > > > But back to the discussion at hand. > > > > > > CPIO is a very useful tool. Along with DD, but hey, who uses DD at all these days. (Besides me.) > > > > I do, I do! > > > > > Tim, > > > On the *real* flavors of UNIX, if my memory serves me correctly, you are prompted to try it without > > > the -c option. > > > As to the dumB, its pretty much a standard way of remembering the options that you should use. > > > > > > The fact that Informix doesn't standardize on one product, is a disappointment. > > > > > > Oh well, have fun and stay off that baby sitter! > > > > > > -Mikey > > > > Art S. Kagel > > Me too. I think everyone who went thru Sun's desaster with > incompatible tar (at the end of SunOS4 times) does. > Am I wrong ? > Tim, I can assure you: cpio rox! > -- > Richard Kofler > debis Systemhaus EDVg - Vienna > on a private account
Art, This "discussion" is in the context of software distribution, not what is your favorite tool for data manipulation. Every geek out there has their favorite data streamer, but the point is, cpio is NOT appropriate for software distribution. If it were, don't you think other companies would be using it? RPM may have cpio usage in it, but again, simple is best, RPM is not simple to use unless you have some kind of wrapper for it, and RPM is not used on any other platform besides Linux. DD is also inappropriate for software distribution. It's not who wins here but what is mainstream, ubiquitous, accepted practice, and common sense. ( Hence the term "common" ) Thanks, Tim CPIO SUCKS "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > > No not cpio, dd. I use dd. I cannot fathom cpio and I'm using UNIX for > going on 14 years now. I only use cpio when I have to and I don't like it > even then. > > Art S. Kagel > > Richard Kofler wrote: > > > > "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > > > > > > Mike Segel wrote: > > > > > > > > Man What a maroon! > > > > > > > > "Mehdi@QueriX" wrote: > > > > [SNIP] > > > > > > > > Here you have a heated discussion about cpio and this moron decides to spam about his product. > > > > > > > > Anyone using queriX? WHO CARES. I know I won't even consider recommending it to any client. > > > > > > > > But back to the discussion at hand. > > > > > > > > CPIO is a very useful tool. Along with DD, but hey, who uses DD at all these days. (Besides me.) > > > > > > I do, I do! > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > On the *real* flavors of UNIX, if my memory serves me correctly, you are prompted to try it without > > > > the -c option. > > > > As to the dumB, its pretty much a standard way of remembering the options that you should use. > > > > > > > > The fact that Informix doesn't standardize on one product, is a disappointment. > > > > > > > > Oh well, have fun and stay off that baby sitter! > > > > > > > > -Mikey > > > > > > Art S. Kagel > > > > Me too. I think everyone who went thru Sun's desaster with > > incompatible tar (at the end of SunOS4 times) does. > > Am I wrong ? > > Tim, I can assure you: cpio rox! > > -- > > Richard Kofler > > debis Systemhaus EDVg - Vienna > > on a private account -- . .- .-- .--- .---- Tim Schaefer .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net .---- http://www.inxutil.com .--- http://www.datad.com .-- .- .
Tim Schaefer wrote: > > Art, > > This "discussion" is in the context of software distribution, not what is > your favorite tool for data manipulation. Every geek out there has their > favorite data streamer, but the point is, cpio is NOT appropriate for > software distribution. If it were, don't you think other companies > would be using it? RPM may have cpio usage in it, but again, simple is > best, RPM is not simple to use unless you have some kind of wrapper for > it, and RPM is not used on any other platform besides Linux. DD is also > inappropriate for software distribution. > > It's not who wins here but what is mainstream, ubiquitous, accepted practice, > and common sense. ( Hence the term "common" ) Sorry if I helped drag this "discussion" off topic. Let me drag it back on. I agree with Tim that the distribution should have been tar (in a gzipped file if transmission speed was being considered and it should be). HOWEVER, Tim, Informix took a survey of this list and the linux-informix list last year asking what format we wanted for distributions after you, me, Mikey and many others complained about the original RPM distributions. Do we know what the results of that survey were? No. Perhaps, Tim, there are only the four or five of us who do not like cpio and prefer tar. I certainly do not know. I cannot fathom that this could be true, but then I've known as many cpio-bigots as tar-bigots in my career so I suppose that it is possible. As to the cpio'd-RPM'd-zipped fiasco and all the unaccountably different formats of the different products, well, that is just unforgivable! I'll give Informix 1/2 point since it seems that IntraWare insists on zip format. Of course I thought the customer is always right and Informix IS IntraWare's customer, how about asserting yourselves out there? So only 1/2 point. But you MUST have a consistent interface. To those who claim that the CPIO format is ubiquitous in Informix software installations I have to say that except for SCO I have NEVER installed ANY Informix product that did NOT use tar until Linux. I have now installed Informix products on anything from an AT&T 3B1 to a Sun E10000, over a dozen different platforms, not even counting the 5 different Sun platforms I've installed it on, all using tar. Art S. Kagel
Art, It's interesting to see what Oracle is using for their Linux distribution: http://technet.oracle.com/software/products/oracle8i/software_index.htm You'll have to subscribe to the OTN to get to this link, but the answer awaits you there. :-) As they say in court, "The defense rests your honor." Tim "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > > Tim Schaefer wrote: > > > > Art, > > > > This "discussion" is in the context of software distribution, not what is > > your favorite tool for data manipulation. Every geek out there has their > > favorite data streamer, but the point is, cpio is NOT appropriate for > > software distribution. If it were, don't you think other companies > > would be using it? RPM may have cpio usage in it, but again, simple is > > best, RPM is not simple to use unless you have some kind of wrapper for > > it, and RPM is not used on any other platform besides Linux. DD is also > > inappropriate for software distribution. > > > > It's not who wins here but what is mainstream, ubiquitous, accepted practice, > > and common sense. ( Hence the term "common" ) > > Sorry if I helped drag this "discussion" off topic. Let me drag it back > on. I agree with Tim that the distribution should have been tar (in a > gzipped file if transmission speed was being considered and it should be). > HOWEVER, Tim, Informix took a survey of this list and the linux-informix > list last year asking what format we wanted for distributions after you, > me, Mikey and many others complained about the original RPM distributions. > > Do we know what the results of that survey were? No. Perhaps, Tim, there > are only the four or five of us who do not like cpio and prefer tar. I > certainly do not know. I cannot fathom that this could be true, but then > I've known as many cpio-bigots as tar-bigots in my career so I suppose > that it is possible. > > As to the cpio'd-RPM'd-zipped fiasco and all the unaccountably different > formats of the different products, well, that is just unforgivable! I'll > give Informix 1/2 point since it seems that IntraWare insists on zip > format. Of course I thought the customer is always right and Informix IS > IntraWare's customer, how about asserting yourselves out there? So only > 1/2 point. But you MUST have a consistent interface. > > To those who claim that the CPIO format is ubiquitous in Informix software > installations I have to say that except for SCO I have NEVER installed ANY > Informix product that did NOT use tar until Linux. I have now installed > Informix products on anything from an AT&T 3B1 to a Sun E10000, over a > dozen different platforms, not even counting the 5 different Sun platforms > I've installed it on, all using tar. > > Art S. Kagel -- . .- .-- .--- .---- Tim Schaefer .----- tschaefe@bellsouth.net .---- http://www.inxutil.com .--- http://www.datad.com .-- .- .
CPIO MADE Simple. Remember cpio -icvdumB ^^^^^ Now if the c doesn't work, most *real* OSs will tell you to try without the c option. ;-) As to DD, here's a neat trick, Pipe the output of CPIO to DD, setting the blocksize to 2MB or 4 MB then stream it out to your tape device. Very, very fast, if only you grok cpio and dd. Yes children, I cut my teeth on Unix, and if it wasn't for this alzhimer ?sp? thing, I'd still be an Unix Wizard. :-P -Mikey (Ok so maybe it was from sniffing glue or dropping acid at a young age that cause me to lose my memory. Its really all the same thing.) "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > No not cpio, dd. I use dd. I cannot fathom cpio and I'm using UNIX for > going on 14 years now. I only use cpio when I have to and I don't like it > even then. > > Art S. Kagel > > Richard Kofler wrote: > > > > "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > > > > > > Mike Segel wrote: > > > > > > > > Man What a maroon! > > > > > > > > "Mehdi@QueriX" wrote: > > > > [SNIP] > > > > > > > > Here you have a heated discussion about cpio and this moron decides to spam about his product. > > > > > > > > Anyone using queriX? WHO CARES. I know I won't even consider recommending it to any client. > > > > > > > > But back to the discussion at hand. > > > > > > > > CPIO is a very useful tool. Along with DD, but hey, who uses DD at all these days. (Besides me.) > > > > > > I do, I do! > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > On the *real* flavors of UNIX, if my memory serves me correctly, you are prompted to try it without > > > > the -c option. > > > > As to the dumB, its pretty much a standard way of remembering the options that you should use. > > > > > > > > The fact that Informix doesn't standardize on one product, is a disappointment. > > > > > > > > Oh well, have fun and stay off that baby sitter! > > > > > > > > -Mikey > > > > > > Art S. Kagel > > > > Me too. I think everyone who went thru Sun's desaster with > > incompatible tar (at the end of SunOS4 times) does. > > Am I wrong ? > > Tim, I can assure you: cpio rox! > > -- > > Richard Kofler > > debis Systemhaus EDVg - Vienna > > on a private account
In article <38307FFD.689B52B1@bloomberg.net>, Art S. Kagel <kagel@bloomberg.net> wrote: >To those who claim that the CPIO format is ubiquitous in Informix software >installations I have to say that except for SCO I have NEVER installed ANY >Informix product that did NOT use tar until Linux. I have now installed >Informix products on anything from an AT&T 3B1 to a Sun E10000, over a >dozen different platforms, not even counting the 5 different Sun platforms >I've installed it on, all using tar. Traditionally, System V platforms (pre-SVR4) all shipped on cpio. This includes the 3B1/7300/"Unix PC" (gawd, what a pain that was), except perhaps for ports that were subcontracted out (e.g. to Comsoft). The 3B2/3B5/3B20/6386/etc running SVR[123] were generally cpio, with certain exceptions (such as floppy distributions). Generally, the best-supported method on a given platform was the one chosen -- there was no incentive or ulterior motive in choosing cpio over tar for any given platform. -- Alan Denney yosemite at accesscom.com "When someone annoys you, it takes 32 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and smack them in the head."