RE: IDS Next Version - features wanted - now widely off topic
> -----Original Message----- > From: owner-informix-list@iiug.org > [mailto:owner-informix-list@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Bernard Dhooghe > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:20 AM > To: informix-list@iiug.org > Subject: Re: IDS Next Version - features wanted - now widely off topic > > End of the 80's I was promoting and supporting Informix products (SE, > then Turbo, Online), with conviction and pleasure. > > I used to know a little Informix 4GL and it's users. > > I lived the NewEra debacle. > > When the market clearly indicated Informix lost the battle, > IBM decided > the buy Informix (for 1 billion $ if I remember). > > IBM's acquisition did not stop migration of Informix customers to > Oracle. > > There is only one roadmap people are interested in, an eternal one. > > IBM can not commit this for Informix. > > IBM can not even commit this for DB2 (for UDB LUW) and the market > perception is that Oracle has to do it, as it is Oracle's core > business. > > >From this may I conclude the following? > > DB2 will also loose the battle against Oracle if IBM continues this > way. > > IBM should tell the market Informix is dead, that no more new releases > will come. > > IBM should put all development money in DB2 UDB (LUW, not speaking > about mainframe DB2 here). > > IBM should make DB2 UDB LUW a separate company, compete against Oracle > and get market share for the product or die. > > Bernard Dhooghe Attention Mark T.: You oughta hire this guy!! On second thought, you probably already did. I sure am glad that IBM did *NOT* take this path when they bought Informix a little over four years ago. Although I'm sure that there were many in IBM that figured that Informix would just naturally die on the vine as people would just as naturally migrate from IDS to the "clearly superior" DB2 UDB / LUW. This was *almost* stated just that way by an IBM exec during the 2002 Tech Conf -- at least the assumption that people would "naturally" migrate to DB2. Well, it has taken four very long years, but I firmly believe that the IBM DM ship (super tanker??) is finally starting to turn. Eyes are finally beginning to see that there are solid, technical *reasons* that many customers chose Informix in the first place, and that they don't WANT to migrate away from it. There are a number of small signs that I see that tell me that IBM is veeeerrrrryyyyy sssssllllllloooooowwwwwlllyyy changing direction / strategy on the Informix line: -- they are now touting that IDS is the "embedded" database of choice; there are even reports in this NG that one "official" IBM presentation stated that IDS was the OLTP database of choice!! -- they are putting more development effort into IDS than Informix itself did for *many* years; there are features in the new releases that people have been clamoring for for many years -- this is *NOT* something you do if you want the product to "die on the vine" -- they are asking very key IDS developers (can you say, "J.L."?) for ten-year development plans for the product (I wonder how many years out Oracle developers have to plan) -- they have abandoned the "Arrowhead" concept, whereby IDS would be merged into DB2 (some may see this as a bad sign; however, along with the other things going on, I see it as a good sign) Getting back to my original "complaint" -- although I see the great IBM ship-of-state beginning to turn, I fear that many companies are still going by IBM's *original* (albeit perceived) direction in regard to Informix and have already written it off. And they are *NOT* just naturally choosing DB2 as the replacement. A "natural" course for these companies is to go with the *perceived* leader: O or MS, depending on the size / performance / platform requirements. What IBM needs to do is to start shifting their focus to the real decision makers in these large companies, grab them by the shoulders (so to speak) and tell them that, "INFORMIX IS *NOT*, REPEAT *NOT* DEAD!! Unless you *want* to migrate to DB2, you should STAY on Informix, and this is why: ...." This message has been shouted from the rooftops to the *technical* people, but it needs to be very aggressively brought to the real decision makers in the executive offices. And that needs to be done now, before it is too late. Paul Mosser sending to informix-list
mosserp@wellsfargo.com wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-informix-list@iiug.org >>[mailto:owner-informix-list@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Bernard Dhooghe >>Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:20 AM >>To: informix-list@iiug.org >>Subject: Re: IDS Next Version - features wanted - now widely off topic >> >>End of the 80's I was promoting and supporting Informix products (SE, >>then Turbo, Online), with conviction and pleasure. >> >>I used to know a little Informix 4GL and it's users. >> >>I lived the NewEra debacle. >> >>When the market clearly indicated Informix lost the battle, >>IBM decided >>the buy Informix (for 1 billion $ if I remember). >> >>IBM's acquisition did not stop migration of Informix customers to >>Oracle. >> >>There is only one roadmap people are interested in, an eternal one. >> >>IBM can not commit this for Informix. >> >>IBM can not even commit this for DB2 (for UDB LUW) and the market >>perception is that Oracle has to do it, as it is Oracle's core >>business. >> >>>From this may I conclude the following? >> >>DB2 will also loose the battle against Oracle if IBM continues this >>way. >> >>IBM should tell the market Informix is dead, that no more new releases >>will come. >> >>IBM should put all development money in DB2 UDB (LUW, not speaking >>about mainframe DB2 here). >> >>IBM should make DB2 UDB LUW a separate company, compete against Oracle >>and get market share for the product or die. >> >>Bernard Dhooghe > > > Attention Mark T.: You oughta hire this guy!! On second thought, you > probably already did. > > I sure am glad that IBM did *NOT* take this path when they bought > Informix a little over four years ago. Although I'm sure that there > were many in IBM that figured that Informix would just naturally die on > the vine as people would just as naturally migrate from IDS to the > "clearly superior" DB2 UDB / LUW. This was *almost* stated just that > way by an IBM exec during the 2002 Tech Conf -- at least the assumption > that people would "naturally" migrate to DB2. > > Well, it has taken four very long years, but I firmly believe that the > IBM DM ship (super tanker??) is finally starting to turn. Eyes are > finally beginning to see that there are solid, technical *reasons* that > many customers chose Informix in the first place, and that they don't > WANT to migrate away from it. There are a number of small signs that I > see that tell me that IBM is veeeerrrrryyyyy > sssssllllllloooooowwwwwlllyyy changing direction / strategy on the > Informix line: > -- they are now touting that IDS is the "embedded" database of choice; > there are even reports in this NG that one "official" IBM presentation > stated that IDS was the OLTP database of choice!! > -- they are putting more development effort into IDS than Informix > itself did for *many* years; there are features in the new releases that > people have been clamoring for for many years -- this is *NOT* something > you do if you want the product to "die on the vine" > -- they are asking very key IDS developers (can you say, "J.L."?) for > ten-year development plans for the product (I wonder how many years out > Oracle developers have to plan) > -- they have abandoned the "Arrowhead" concept, whereby IDS would be > merged into DB2 (some may see this as a bad sign; however, along with > the other things going on, I see it as a good sign) > > Getting back to my original "complaint" -- although I see the great IBM > ship-of-state beginning to turn, I fear that many companies are still > going by IBM's *original* (albeit perceived) direction in regard to > Informix and have already written it off. And they are *NOT* just > naturally choosing DB2 as the replacement. A "natural" course for these > companies is to go with the *perceived* leader: O or MS, depending on > the size / performance / platform requirements. > > What IBM needs to do is to start shifting their focus to the real > decision makers in these large companies, grab them by the shoulders (so > to speak) and tell them that, "INFORMIX IS *NOT*, REPEAT *NOT* DEAD!! > Unless you *want* to migrate to DB2, you should STAY on Informix, and > this is why: ...." This message has been shouted from the rooftops to > the *technical* people, but it needs to be very aggressively brought to > the real decision makers in the executive offices. > > And that needs to be done now, before it is too late. > > Paul Mosser > > sending to informix-list Oh wouldn't that be loverly... :-) WordPerfect is superior to MS-Word in many ways, but uh, guess what, nobody cares. I think all that's been said to the opposing view has been said, now it's up to the cloak-n-dagger behind the scenes people to get it right. Guess what, they won't. There is no compelling reason to use Informix when there are so many market drivers going against it. Knowing the difference between Informix and DB2 I still do not know of one single reason why I would want Informix instead. If I want small, embedded, why not use MySQL? Or Berkeley DBM? If I use Windows, MS-SQL-Server is pretty robust, and all those developers are just clamoring for the next release. Why use Informix???? I'm at a loss to understand, just what are the technically-superior features of Informix vs DB2? What am I missing if I buy DB2? What are the motivating reasons I can use to tell managers and buyers that they should stick their necks out and buy Informix instead of other, KNOWN products? Just think for a moment how it works in the real world and I think all the enthusiasm in the world is meaningless without some kind of ad campaign and marketing message. And IBM has been laying messages in the press that it's neck-n-neck with Oracle, how does Informix matter in all that?
In response to my respected friend, Mr. Mosser, we are starting to visit clients that request an Informix presence at the management level to help "fight the good fight." This includes both responding to the competition, as well as helping with clarity of any "lingering confusion" (or even, I hate to say it, new confusion on) the message from IBM regarding Informix. We would have started these types of visits sooner, but most of the Informix team has been traveling non-stop worldwide holding events for the IDS 10.0 product launch. This is a great sign though - as we've been so busy delivering the message that we are having to utlitize more resources than just the core team to cover the globe. With all that said (and in fear of getting completely swamped with requests!), if you are a client that needs "Informix presence" to help deliver the "new message", please let me know. It is part of my job, and we will get clients covered as fast as we can. Thanks - Mark Scranton IBM Worldwide Technical Team - Informix Products mark.scranton@us.ibm.com