Re: XPS to IDS - a positive note for all from the road

On Sep 4, 6:57 pm, Madison Pruet <mpru...@verizon.net> wrote: > Mark Townsend wrote: > > >> Here comes the salesman to explain how the technology works. > > > This is a technology newsgroup ? I thought I had wandered into soc.insane > > I can't believe it. I'm actually in agreement with Mark Townsend. > > Wonders never cease... Well, Ok... Madison, Since you want to be the voice of reason, maybe you can explain this to me? Why is it that more than 2 years after Janet's departure, there is still a disparity among IT Specialists? Using Central North territory as an example... Counting Certified IDS IT Specialists in the midwest... 0 in St Louis. 1 in Chicago 0 in Wisconsin 0 in Indiana 2 in Michigan (Dave P. and Shep aka Mr. Potential ;-) 0 in Ohio 0 in Northern KY and in Western PA. 0 in MN. Unless IBM changed the territories, I think that's an accurate headcount. Did I miss anyone? Oh and 2 of the channels IT Specialists have moved. One to Florida and One to Tx. So why is it IBM hasn't cross trained more of their DB2 certified IT Specialists to help cover this gap? Talk about insanity. But hey! What do I know? And a bonus question... Who from IBM covers Peapod? You know the grocery delivery service who's US HQ is in a Chicago 'burb, but was bought out by a Dutch grocery store chain many moons ago? Its not the local team, unless of course things changed recently? That's one way to keep customers... ;-) I realize that you're not in S&D. But as an IBMer you can call what was once 1-800-IBM-4-YOU and ask to get this information. (Who's the IBM client rep for Peapod that is...) Or who covers Hyatt? ;-) -G

Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > Why is it that more than 2 years after Janet's departure, there is > still a disparity among IT Specialists? > Using Central North territory as an example... > > Counting Certified IDS IT Specialists in the midwest... > 0 in St Louis. > 1 in Chicago > 0 in Wisconsin > 0 in Indiana > 2 in Michigan (Dave P. and Shep aka Mr. Potential ;-) > 0 in Ohio > 0 in Northern KY and in Western PA. > 0 in MN. > > Unless IBM changed the territories, I think that's an accurate > headcount. Did I miss anyone? > > Oh and 2 of the channels IT Specialists have moved. One to Florida and > One to Tx. > > So why is it IBM hasn't cross trained more of their DB2 certified IT > Specialists to help cover this gap? Likely because the demand is so small that three people can handle it. From dice.com DB2 Wisconsin - 20 openings IDS Wisconsin - 1 opening DB2 Indiana - 5 openings IDS Indiana - 1 opening DB2 Ohio - 15 openings IDS Ohio - 3 openings DB2 Minnesota - 12 openings IDS Minnesota - 2 openings The math is really rather straight forward. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

DA Morgan wrote: > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > >> Why is it that more than 2 years after Janet's departure, there is >> still a disparity among IT Specialists? >> Using Central North territory as an example... >> >> Counting Certified IDS IT Specialists in the midwest... >> 0 in St Louis. >> 1 in Chicago >> 0 in Wisconsin >> 0 in Indiana >> 2 in Michigan (Dave P. and Shep aka Mr. Potential ;-) >> 0 in Ohio >> 0 in Northern KY and in Western PA. >> 0 in MN. >> >> Unless IBM changed the territories, I think that's an accurate >> headcount. Did I miss anyone? >> >> Oh and 2 of the channels IT Specialists have moved. One to Florida and >> One to Tx. >> >> So why is it IBM hasn't cross trained more of their DB2 certified IT >> Specialists to help cover this gap? > > Likely because the demand is so small that three people can handle it. > > From dice.com > > DB2 Wisconsin - 20 openings > IDS Wisconsin - 1 opening > > DB2 Indiana - 5 openings > IDS Indiana - 1 opening > > DB2 Ohio - 15 openings > IDS Ohio - 3 openings > > DB2 Minnesota - 12 openings > IDS Minnesota - 2 openings > > The math is really rather straight forward. Can you share the search criteria you used? Thanks. -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

Daniel, We've been through this 100s of times. 1) Its a known fact that companies don't need as many IDS DBAs to keep their systems running. (Just talk to WallyMart, K-Sears, etc ...) 2) The quality of an IDS DBA is higher than those of an Oracle DBA so companies tend to not only require more to get the same level of service, but also to get a competent DBA that will stick around longer than a year. 3) We're not talking about customers, we're talking about internal staffing at IBM. Even in cities where there are IDS customers, the number of IT specialists is insufficient. (Care to use Chicago as an example?) > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 07:52:59 -0700 > From: damorgan@psoug.org > Subject: Re: XPS to IDS - a positive note for all from the road > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > > Why is it that more than 2 years after Janet's departure, there is > > still a disparity among IT Specialists? > > Using Central North territory as an example... > > > > Counting Certified IDS IT Specialists in the midwest... > > 0 in St Louis. > > 1 in Chicago > > 0 in Wisconsin > > 0 in Indiana > > 2 in Michigan (Dave P. and Shep aka Mr. Potential ;-) > > 0 in Ohio > > 0 in Northern KY and in Western PA. > > 0 in MN. > > > > Unless IBM changed the territories, I think that's an accurate > > headcount. Did I miss anyone? > > > > Oh and 2 of the channels IT Specialists have moved. One to Florida and > > One to Tx. > > > > So why is it IBM hasn't cross trained more of their DB2 certified IT > > Specialists to help cover this gap? > > Likely because the demand is so small that three people can handle it. > > From dice.com > > DB2 Wisconsin - 20 openings > IDS Wisconsin - 1 opening > > DB2 Indiana - 5 openings > IDS Indiana - 1 opening > > DB2 Ohio - 15 openings > IDS Ohio - 3 openings > > DB2 Minnesota - 12 openings > IDS Minnesota - 2 openings > > The math is really rather straight forward. > -- > Daniel A. Morgan > University of Washington > damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond) > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn “10 hidden secrets” from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008

Fernando, It doesn't matter. The point of my argument is that there is a lack of parity among the IT Specialists supporting DB2 and IDS. I used Central North because I'm pretty certain of the head count. YMMV depending on sales territory and country. Daniel points to Dice which BTW isn't an accurate indication at all. As an example, I've seen 10 openings for a JDBC/J2EE guru with a financial background. Turns out that all of the 10 openings were for 3 openings, with 2 at one account. The next day, the number of positions jumped to 15, however it was more "head hunters" looking for the same position. Its a waste of time arguing this point because is has no validation in any indication of product adoption. But getting back to the point... It would be very easy for someone in support to query AAS for the number of IDS customers in IL, then count the number of IT specialists in IL. Or have customers and C.D.I posters count the number of IT Specialists that are IDS certified in their town. You get the same point and the same message. A LACK OF PARITY AND LOCAL SUPPORT BY IBM of IDS. Now why was it that Janet could mandate that all the Informix Heritage IT Specialists had to get cross trained on to DB2, yet now with the apparent lack of parity, Ambush can't do the same? I mean he's in the same role as Janet P was, right? Or maybe he just doesn't care about it enough to make it happen? Oh and I mean its a very simple thing for someone on his staff, like Alyse P, to send out an e-mail to change the FLM's PBCs to incent them to make it happen. (For those of you who don't speak IBM, the translation don't worry about it. There's enough IBMers here who should grok this point.) It was brought to IBM's attention over a year and a half ago, yet it seems to be a low priority. I guess making those all hand con-calls that most of the listeners rarely pay attention to, is much more visible and a higher priority. (And yeah, I used to have to spend a couple of hours a week every other week on those all hand calls along with territory pipeline calls....) But hey! What do I know? ;-) > From: domusonline@gmail.com > Subject: Re: XPS to IDS - a positive note for all from the road > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 16:43:40 +0100 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > DA Morgan wrote: > > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > > >> Why is it that more than 2 years after Janet's departure, there is > >> still a disparity among IT Specialists? > >> Using Central North territory as an example... > >> > >> Counting Certified IDS IT Specialists in the midwest... > >> 0 in St Louis. > >> 1 in Chicago > >> 0 in Wisconsin > >> 0 in Indiana > >> 2 in Michigan (Dave P. and Shep aka Mr. Potential ;-) > >> 0 in Ohio > >> 0 in Northern KY and in Western PA. > >> 0 in MN. > >> > >> Unless IBM changed the territories, I think that's an accurate > >> headcount. Did I miss anyone? > >> > >> Oh and 2 of the channels IT Specialists have moved. One to Florida and > >> One to Tx. > >> > >> So why is it IBM hasn't cross trained more of their DB2 certified IT > >> Specialists to help cover this gap? > > > > Likely because the demand is so small that three people can handle it. > > > > From dice.com > > > > DB2 Wisconsin - 20 openings > > IDS Wisconsin - 1 opening > > > > DB2 Indiana - 5 openings > > IDS Indiana - 1 opening > > > > DB2 Ohio - 15 openings > > IDS Ohio - 3 openings > > > > DB2 Minnesota - 12 openings > > IDS Minnesota - 2 openings > > > > The math is really rather straight forward. > > Can you share the search criteria you used? > Thanks. > > -- > Fernando Nunes > Portugal > > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com > My email works... but I don't check it frequently... > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together—at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/

Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > Fernando, > > It doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter for you, please ignore any eventual answer from Daniel. > Now why was it that Janet could mandate that all the Informix Heritage > IT Specialists had to get cross trained on to DB2, yet now with the > apparent lack of parity, Ambush can't do the same? I mean he's in the > same role as Janet P was, right? I will obviously not discuss any management decisions here, specially as you say, ones that are much, much above my pay grade... but... - I didn't had to cross train in DB2 - I'm certified in DB2 and Informix. I was already certified in Informix and I updated the Informix certification at the same time I did the most basic DB2 certification - Without going into details, because I not related to it, and because it's "internal affairs" I can say that there is Informix training going on... - I should already have updated my certification for IDS 11... but I have no time - I have no plans and I suffer no pressure to update my DB2 certification - I've been receiving request for information how IDS certifications from external people I really don't want to discuss anything with you, but the idea is that things aren't always as simple and as "dark" as you try to show... > > Or maybe he just doesn't care about it enough to make it happen? > As you surely know, when things are selling people don't worry too much... Not saying it's the correct attitude, but with so much going on these days sometimes we tend to focus on what's going wrong... not on what's going well although we should make it better. > Oh and I mean its a very simple thing for someone on his staff, like > Alyse P, to send out an e-mail to change the FLM's PBCs to incent them > to make it happen. (For those of you who don't speak IBM, the > translation don't worry about it. There's enough IBMers here who should > grok this point.) I do. My PBC never had a single reference to DB2. Regards. -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

On Sep 5, 12:24 pm, Fernando Nunes <domusonl...@gmail.com> wrote: > I do. My PBC never had a single reference to DB2. > > Regards. > > -- > Fernando Nunes > Portugal > > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com > My email works... but I don't check it frequently... And you are one of the rare few. Only a handful of consultants who refused to learn DB2 or get certified on DB2 are still around. (Off the top of my head, I can only think of two. And one of them has Mark Scranton's old job. The other is a band 10 lab consultant. ;-) But I'm sure there are more. The point is that if you checked my numbers for Central North Territory, you'll see that I'm not off by much, if any. Now if we take a look at the large Informix customers in Central North, you have to wonder why so few? Its as if IBM doesn't want to sell IDS. While I applaud you and a few others for making the stand and choosing which platform you wish to support, I think that its a non-issue to the overall larger picture... So how about it? Anyone in Central North who wishes to dispute my numbers? What about other regions around the US? And lets not forget my other question about Peapod. Who covers them in the US? (But I digress.) I don't want to hit you with too many things at once.... -G

Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > While I applaud you and a few others for making the stand and choosing > which platform you wish to support, I think that its a non-issue to > the overall larger picture... Where the hell did you read I "stand and choosing..."? -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

On Sep 5, 2:44 pm, Fernando Nunes <domusonl...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > While I applaud you and a few others for making the stand and choosing > > which platform you wish to support, I think that its a non-issue to > > the overall larger picture... > > Where the hell did you read I "stand and choosing..."? > > -- > Fernando Nunes > Portugal > > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com > My email works... but I don't check it frequently... LOL... Here in the US, marching orders were given. If you didn't want to learn and get certified on DB2? Well... A few people that I know did refuse. Of those, only a couple are still within IBM today. (We're talking consultants) So are we to believe that you were never offered DB2 training or given incentives to get DB2 certification? That would be interesting. But then again, the EU is a different beast than here in the states.

Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > So are we to believe that you were never offered DB2 training or given > incentives to get DB2 certification? > That would be interesting. But then again, the EU is a different beast > than here in the states. Are we to believe all that you say? I already said I was not forced, offered any training etc. I took the chance to certify at one of the EBU, after I did self training... Renewed my IDS 7 to IDS 9 and did the very basic (DB2 advisor if I recall). So this is interesting... And ohter parts of the world may be different... That's the wonders of globalization... Suddently the world is a little bigger than our belly and we notice we don't know everything... Many people have pre-conceived ideas about IBM... many of them are founded. It's a fact that you can't control a company of this size without rules. It's a fact that it's probably the company where people stay longer (that impressed me when I joined) etc. But every time people forget some very basic facts. To name a few: - In some countries, people at IBM data management more than double with Informix acquisition. IBM has a strong culture of course. But does anybody truly believe all this people from so many different origins are just "eclipsed" by "IBM obscurity"? - In a recent meeting, IIRC about 60-70% of the people present became IBMers through recent acquisitions - IBM is one of the oldest IT companies in the world. It went through very though times. It survived because the majority of the people are plain incompetents? - The guys that pick up my PMRs are essentially the same for years... Once in a while I get a new name of course, which is a good sign, but there's a lot of experience and know how. - Picking c.d.i. for example... the people that really help here are the same for years... I didn't check but I have the idea I received help from Jonathan years before I joined Informix. Everybody knows Madison. Oh... and if you notice, there are "new" names, specially answering questions on .NET and other windows related products. - In Informix arena, the product is so much better and have seen so many improvements (translated into two big releases in 2007 and 2008). This thread doesn't deserve my time, but since it doesn't have any specific subject, a bit of context should do no harm... Regards. -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

Fernando Nunes wrote: > DA Morgan wrote: >> Ian Michael Gumby wrote: >> >>> Why is it that more than 2 years after Janet's departure, there is >>> still a disparity among IT Specialists? >>> Using Central North territory as an example... >>> >>> Counting Certified IDS IT Specialists in the midwest... >>> 0 in St Louis. >>> 1 in Chicago >>> 0 in Wisconsin >>> 0 in Indiana >>> 2 in Michigan (Dave P. and Shep aka Mr. Potential ;-) >>> 0 in Ohio >>> 0 in Northern KY and in Western PA. >>> 0 in MN. >>> >>> Unless IBM changed the territories, I think that's an accurate >>> headcount. Did I miss anyone? >>> >>> Oh and 2 of the channels IT Specialists have moved. One to Florida and >>> One to Tx. >>> >>> So why is it IBM hasn't cross trained more of their DB2 certified IT >>> Specialists to help cover this gap? >> >> Likely because the demand is so small that three people can handle it. >> >> From dice.com >> >> DB2 Wisconsin - 20 openings >> IDS Wisconsin - 1 opening >> >> DB2 Indiana - 5 openings >> IDS Indiana - 1 opening >> >> DB2 Ohio - 15 openings >> IDS Ohio - 3 openings >> >> DB2 Minnesota - 12 openings >> IDS Minnesota - 2 openings >> >> The math is really rather straight forward. > > Can you share the search criteria you used? > Thanks. Absolutely: www.dice.com Search for: "DB2" and "Wisconsin" Search for: "Informix" and "Wisconsin" replace state names and repeat. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

On Sep 5, 7:49 pm, Fernando Nunes <domusonl...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > So are we to believe that you were never offered DB2 training or given > > incentives to get DB2 certification? > > That would be interesting. But then again, the EU is a different beast > > than here in the states. > > Are we to believe all that you say? LOL... You don't have to believe anything. You know some of your counterparts in the US. They should be able to confirm. And lets be clear. I'm not painting a blacker picture than what exists. You may not like what I say, or how blunt I say it. It doesn't change the facts. Do you want a copy of the Eagle sales plan? Basically the sales comp plans for the US in the years just post acquisition. 2001 I believe was the start of it. Then in 2002, 2003 the changes got even more interesting. (Note: I seriously doubt I have a copy of the sales plan anymore. Its possible its stashed away on an archive somewhere....) But hey! Lets not live in the past. Lets look at today's reality. 3 IT specialists that support IDS in the entire Central North territory. Can you add any names to the list? (Note: I'm not counting Dennis who covers Moto for channels because he moved to FL, and of course I left a couple of years ago, so some of the people may no longer be with IBM....) And this is the point. What has IBM done to improve the number of IT specialists who can support IDS customers? And again, even though you're in the EU, you should be able to find out who covers Peapod in the US. I would imagine that you have access to the same Siebel sales database that is used in the US. If not, you should know a few counterparts in the US who can confirm. (Or find out who covers the parent Dutch Grocery Chain) But hey! Even taking what I'm saying with a grain of salt, please show me where I'm way off base. As to "deserving your time", that's your call. You chose to defend IBM's lack of action on this issue. Of course, if you did take the time to check out what I'm saying, I think you'd change your tune.

Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > Daniel, > > We've been through this 100s of times. > > 1) Its a known fact that companies don't need as many IDS DBAs to keep > their systems running. > (Just talk to WallyMart, K-Sears, etc ...) You keep trotting out the same long list of two companies. Well Cisco too so lets make it three. If you think anyone is going to be impressed by these then no doubt this website - www.oracle.com/ad/index.html - will send you into apoplexy. > 2) The quality of an IDS DBA is higher than those of an Oracle DBA As determined by what objective measure? Your opinion? My opinion? The opinion of usenet users? A Gallup Poll? Please provide a citation. > so > companies tend to not only require more to get the same level of service, > but also to get a competent DBA that will stick around longer than a year. Or perhaps they stick around longer because they have no place else to go? Of my friends here in Seattle that were Informix experts or employees only two are still working with Informix software. Most went to SQL Server, one of Informix's 15 year employees is now with SAP. Why? Because they couldn't find jobs. "Which software is better" is subjective opinion. "I can't find a job" is an objective fact. > 3) We're not talking about customers, we're talking about internal > staffing at IBM. IBM staffs up for the need. If there was more need there would be more staff. That is how all industries work. > Even in cities where there are IDS customers, the number of IT > specialists is insufficient. > (Care to use Chicago as an example?) Insufficient by whose measure? Yours or IBM's? -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > Daniel points to Dice which BTW isn't an accurate indication at all. > As an example, I've seen 10 openings for a JDBC/J2EE guru with a > financial background. Turns out that all of the 10 openings were for 3 > openings, with 2 at one account. The next day, the number of positions > jumped to 15, however it was more "head hunters" looking for the same > position. > > Its a waste of time arguing this point because is has no validation in > any indication of product adoption. I've never said it is an indication of companies adopting a product. I've said it is a measure of available jobs. I don't make money selling software licenses so who sells the most is irrelevant to me. Can I find a job? That's relevant. Can my student's find jobs? That too is relevant. Your statement above would seem to indicate there are still fewer Informix jobs that indicated by dice. That some jobs are posted multiple times too is irrelevant. Even if one were to accept that every Informix job was posted only once and every SQL Server, Oracle, and DB2 job posted five times ... there still wouldn't be a lot of people looking for an Informix-related skill set. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

DA Morgan wrote: > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > >> Daniel points to Dice which BTW isn't an accurate indication at all. >> As an example, I've seen 10 openings for a JDBC/J2EE guru with a >> financial background. Turns out that all of the 10 openings were for 3 >> openings, with 2 at one account. The next day, the number of positions >> jumped to 15, however it was more "head hunters" looking for the same >> position. >> >> Its a waste of time arguing this point because is has no validation in >> any indication of product adoption. > > I've never said it is an indication of companies adopting a product. > I've said it is a measure of available jobs. > > I don't make money selling software licenses so who sells the most is > irrelevant to me. Can I find a job? That's relevant. Can my student's > find jobs? That too is relevant. > > Your statement above would seem to indicate there are still fewer > Informix jobs that indicated by dice. That some jobs are posted multiple > times too is irrelevant. Even if one were to accept that every Informix > job was posted only once and every SQL Server, Oracle, and DB2 job > posted five times ... there still wouldn't be a lot of people looking > for an Informix-related skill set. What is also interesting is the type of work that _is_ available for the Informix pro. I don't think I've seen anything for new development at all in the past 5+ years. The only stuff I _have_ seen is for legacy, "please help we can't find anybody for Informix" kind of work, and then really low billable for it, as if to say, "we'll pay cheaply and replace Informix as soon as possible.". The real work is going for Oracle or the anything-besides-Oracle-and-no-friggin-way-are-we-using-Informix work, like SQL-Server and gasp even Sybase. Where are the new Informix projects? Typically new projects look for experienced people. So even if the numbers fluctuate a few reqs, the Informix reqs are hardly there. The ones that _are_ there are for old stuff, or maybe just a DBA, but you don't see Informix development work anywhere, it's just not there. Oh maybe Mark and a few others have the few that _are_ out there. And yes, you can get on at Walmart if you're willing to live in Arkansas. And by the way, MySQL replaces Informix-SE, and now we have Green Plum replacing XPS. Nice job IBM, really nice work.