RE: Informix in the press...
Not a technical support thread — it's a discussion about IBM's lack of marketing for Informix. Starting from an IIUG request for journalist contacts to get Informix press coverage, posters complain that the only news is security bug fixes. A former insider says a proposed free developer edition of IDS was axed in early 2006 over fears of minor revenue loss, and that his remarks were distorted internally. Others ask whom at IBM to complain to; an IBM-savvy poster explains escalation routes (Blue Pages, the 1-800 number, business-justification arguments). A final reply argues it isn't about money at all: IBM policy positions DB2 as the single flagship database. No resolution is recorded.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
I dunno, I think I like JPeG. -----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:53 AM To: 'Superboer'; informix-list@iiug.org Subject: RE: Informix in the press... Thanks for your nice comment, but I am not responsible of it... I am working on positive articles as well :)... BTW, it's JGP, not JPeG. > -----Original Message----- > From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- > bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Superboer > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 19:47 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > Subject: Re: Informix in the press... > > Hello JPG, > > i saw a press release about security bug fixes... > well its the first news in years so i guess its more then nothing; > people see informix is still alive. > > Thanks mate!!! > > > Superboer. > > BTW a positive article would be nice too!!!!!!! specially a story > about cisco???!!! if possible > > > Superboer schreef: > > > sorry mate do not have a name of a journalist, however these folks > > print a lot about it stuff. mainly obstacle. > > > > http://www.computable.nl/ > > > > because it´s mainly obstacle, check and tripple check your story so > > it does not blow up in your face. > > > > Sorry thats all i can do for you > > > > See you > > > > Superboer. > > > > > > Jean Georges Perrin schreef: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > You all want to see Informix in the press, so help IIUG achieving > > > this > goal by > > > sending the following information to me: > > > > > > Name of journalist, > > > e-mail, > > > name of newspaper. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > -- > > > jgp > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list _______________________________________________ Informix-list mailing list Informix-list@iiug.org http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
All - I was involved in the discussion about the "free version of IDS for the development community...." (Mar 2006 timeframe). It got axed due to a potential small loss of potential revenue. My response to the attendees was simple....I said "...we could can generate 100 times the revenue you are concerned about losing if we would quit saying the DB2 is better than XPS!". Some of the crowd wasn't amused, some I know agreed with me. Regardless, it did not change the plan NOT to offer a free version of IDS in the hopes of stimulating the developer community. My comments got misconstrued and changed "dramatically" by someone eavesdropping on the call (and a a few of us are very aware of who that was), and by the time they got "up the ladder", all kinds of interesting things were being said. So I was again disappointing at the nixing of a potential great marketing tool AND the chance to get IDS spread into the developer community. Would have been a great thing. Thanks - Mark. Hamilton, Jerry wrote: > I dunno, I think I like JPeG. > > -----Original Message----- > From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:53 AM > To: 'Superboer'; informix-list@iiug.org > Subject: RE: Informix in the press... > > Thanks for your nice comment, but I am not responsible of it... I am working on positive articles as well :)... > > BTW, it's JGP, not JPeG. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- > > bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Superboer > > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 19:47 > > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > Subject: Re: Informix in the press... > > > > Hello JPG, > > > > i saw a press release about security bug fixes... > > well its the first news in years so i guess its more then nothing; > > people see informix is still alive. > > > > Thanks mate!!! > > > > > > Superboer. > > > > BTW a positive article would be nice too!!!!!!! specially a story > > about cisco???!!! if possible > > > > > > Superboer schreef: > > > > > sorry mate do not have a name of a journalist, however these folks > > > print a lot about it stuff. mainly obstacle. > > > > > > http://www.computable.nl/ > > > > > > because it´s mainly obstacle, check and tripple check your story so > > > it does not blow up in your face. > > > > > > Sorry thats all i can do for you > > > > > > See you > > > > > > Superboer. > > > > > > > > > Jean Georges Perrin schreef: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > You all want to see Informix in the press, so help IIUG achieving > > > > this > > goal by > > > > sending the following information to me: > > > > > > > > Name of journalist, > > > > e-mail, > > > > name of newspaper. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > -- > > > > jgp > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Informix-list mailing list > > Informix-list@iiug.org > > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
Mark, Your efforts were noble but obviously in vain, thanks for trying. Curious that so many people at IBM are doing everything possible to keep it under wraps. Is there someone I can write to at IBM to complain? mark.scranton@gmail.com wrote: > All - > > I was involved in the discussion about the "free version of IDS for the > development community...." (Mar 2006 timeframe). It got axed due to a > potential small loss of potential revenue. My response to the attendees > was simple....I said "...we could can generate 100 times the revenue > you are concerned about losing if we would quit saying the DB2 is > better than XPS!". Some of the crowd wasn't amused, some I know agreed > with me. Regardless, it did not change the plan NOT to offer a free > version of IDS in the hopes of stimulating the developer community. > > My comments got misconstrued and changed "dramatically" by someone > eavesdropping on the call (and a a few of us are very aware of who that > was), and by the time they got "up the ladder", all kinds of > interesting things were being said. > > So I was again disappointing at the nixing of a potential great > marketing tool AND the chance to get IDS spread into the developer > community. Would have been a great thing. > > Thanks - > Mark. > > > Hamilton, Jerry wrote: >> I dunno, I think I like JPeG. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin >> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:53 AM >> To: 'Superboer'; informix-list@iiug.org >> Subject: RE: Informix in the press... >> >> Thanks for your nice comment, but I am not responsible of it... I am working on positive articles as well :)... >> >> BTW, it's JGP, not JPeG. >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- >>> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Superboer >>> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 19:47 >>> To: informix-list@iiug.org >>> Subject: Re: Informix in the press... >>> >>> Hello JPG, >>> >>> i saw a press release about security bug fixes... >>> well its the first news in years so i guess its more then nothing; >>> people see informix is still alive. >>> >>> Thanks mate!!! >>> >>> >>> Superboer. >>> >>> BTW a positive article would be nice too!!!!!!! specially a story >>> about cisco???!!! if possible >>> >>> >>> Superboer schreef: >>> >>>> sorry mate do not have a name of a journalist, however these folks >>>> print a lot about it stuff. mainly obstacle. >>>> >>>> http://www.computable.nl/ >>>> >>>> because it's mainly obstacle, check and tripple check your story so >>>> it does not blow up in your face. >>>> >>>> Sorry thats all i can do for you >>>> >>>> See you >>>> >>>> Superboer. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jean Georges Perrin schreef: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> You all want to see Informix in the press, so help IIUG achieving >>>>> this >>> goal by >>>>> sending the following information to me: >>>>> >>>>> Name of journalist, >>>>> e-mail, >>>>> name of newspaper. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> jgp >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Informix-list mailing list >>> Informix-list@iiug.org >>> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Informix-list mailing list >> Informix-list@iiug.org >> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list >
DE, Here is few mouths that spout a bunch of BS at IBM. Or did last Dec in Atlanta. Not sure if you can get anywhere with them. They were not any help with my fight to get Oracle to certify Peoplesoft on IDS 10. You know, the usual BS about the customer should do the fighting, IBM can't waste their time helping the customer......Danilo is the character that stated he had a big bat to swing (he couldn't hit the broad side of a bull's ass if standing next to it) and Bruce supposedly reports directly too Ambuj (I had ambuj's email at one point but can't find it at the moment). Bruce gave a BS filled breakfast presentation in Atlanta last Dec. I would love to here Weed's or Ambuj response to what Mark mentioned below. Bruce Weed <bweed@us.ibm.com> Danilo Novelli <danilo@us.ibm.com> Double Echo <doubleecho@your. com> To Sent by: informix-list@iiug.org informix-list-bou cc nces@iiug.org Subject Re: Informix in the press... 08/28/2006 10:36 PM Please respond to doubleecho@your.c om Mark, Your efforts were noble but obviously in vain, thanks for trying. Curious that so many people at IBM are doing everything possible to keep it under wraps. Is there someone I can write to at IBM to complain? mark.scranton@gmail.com wrote: > All - > > I was involved in the discussion about the "free version of IDS for the > development community...." (Mar 2006 timeframe). It got axed due to a > potential small loss of potential revenue. My response to the attendees > was simple....I said "...we could can generate 100 times the revenue > you are concerned about losing if we would quit saying the DB2 is > better than XPS!". Some of the crowd wasn't amused, some I know agreed > with me. Regardless, it did not change the plan NOT to offer a free > version of IDS in the hopes of stimulating the developer community. > > My comments got misconstrued and changed "dramatically" by someone > eavesdropping on the call (and a a few of us are very aware of who that > was), and by the time they got "up the ladder", all kinds of > interesting things were being said. > > So I was again disappointing at the nixing of a potential great > marketing tool AND the chance to get IDS spread into the developer > community. Would have been a great thing. > > Thanks - > Mark. > > > Hamilton, Jerry wrote: >> I dunno, I think I like JPeG. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin >> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:53 AM >> To: 'Superboer'; informix-list@iiug.org >> Subject: RE: Informix in the press... >> >> Thanks for your nice comment, but I am not responsible of it... I am working on positive articles as well :)... >> >> BTW, it's JGP, not JPeG. >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- >>> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Superboer >>> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 19:47 >>> To: informix-list@iiug.org >>> Subject: Re: Informix in the press... >>> >>> Hello JPG, >>> >>> i saw a press release about security bug fixes... >>> well its the first news in years so i guess its more then nothing; >>> people see informix is still alive. >>> >>> Thanks mate!!! >>> >>> >>> Superboer. >>> >>> BTW a positive article would be nice too!!!!!!! specially a story >>> about cisco???!!! if possible >>> >>> >>> Superboer schreef: >>> >>>> sorry mate do not have a name of a journalist, however these folks >>>> print a lot about it stuff. mainly obstacle. >>>> >>>> http://www.computable.nl/ >>>> >>>> because it´s mainly obstacle, check and tripple check your story so >>>> it does not blow up in your face. >>>> >>>> Sorry thats all i can do for you >>>> >>>> See you >>>> >>>> Superboer. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jean Georges Perrin schreef: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> You all want to see Informix in the press, so help IIUG achieving >>>>> this >>> goal by >>>>> sending the following information to me: >>>>> >>>>> Name of journalist, >>>>> e-mail, >>>>> name of newspaper. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> jgp >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Informix-list mailing list >>> Informix-list@iiug.org >>> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Informix-list mailing list >> Informix-list@iiug.org >> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > _______________________________________________ Informix-list mailing list Informix-list@iiug.org http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
As Darren did, you need to make sure your concerns and issues are addressed with your IBM sales team or business partner and your software vendor. If you done that and need to escalate the issue, you can find most IBM contacts at: http://www.ibm.com/contact/employees/us/. You do need to know the correct, complete spelling of last names to lookup online. If you don't know the spelling, you can call 1-800-426-4968 (1-800-IBM-4-YOU). The operators have more flexibility when doing lookups. The operators are using "Blue Pages" which means they can also do wonderful things for you like connect you with a supervisor's office. Which in Bruce's case is not Ambuj. Most IBM executives will respond to customer contacts (unless, DE, you have mercilessly flayed one of their employees in public, in which case they might choose to have one of their employees respond to you instead :-)). IBM is very interested in customer input and customer's can raise issues all the way to the top. All calls to Sam Palmisano's are responded to. And here comes the part you will want to rip me to shreds over. You'll have the most success if your requests are specific and explain the business justification for your request. It certainly seems to me EVERYONE would understand the business justification for staying with IDS and pushing vendors such as Oracle and SAP and Infomatica to support IDS. But when customers say they will go with Oracle or SQL Server rather than DB2, IBM usually takes that as either a threat or as a bargaining maneuver to get a discount on DB2. You need to explain that your shop has those products in place and the skills to support them, therefore, that is what makes the most business sense. So both you and IBM lose when IDS loses. Also, if your shop would use more IDS if more of your other vendor software supported it, communicate that to IBM. IBM needs to see that this third party support for IDS has a financial impact beyond the footprint of the individual third party vendor products. Christine Darren_Jacobs@carmax.com wrote: > DE, > > Bruce supposedly reports directly > too Ambuj (I had ambuj's email at one point but can't find it at the > moment). Bruce gave a BS filled breakfast presentation in Atlanta last > Dec. I would love to here Weed's or Ambuj response to what Mark mentioned > below. > > Bruce Weed <bweed@us.ibm.com> > Danilo Novelli <danilo@us.ibm.com> > > > > > Double Echo > <doubleecho@your. > com> To > Sent by: informix-list@iiug.org > informix-list-bou cc > nces@iiug.org > Subject > Re: Informix in the press... > 08/28/2006 10:36 > PM > > > Please respond to > doubleecho@your.c > om > > > > > > > Mark, > > Your efforts were noble but obviously in vain, thanks for trying. > > Curious that so many people at IBM are doing everything possible > to keep it under wraps. Is there someone I can write to at IBM to > complain? > > > mark.scranton@gmail.com wrote: > > All - > > > > I was involved in the discussion about the "free version of IDS for the > > development community...." (Mar 2006 timeframe). It got axed due to a > > potential small loss of potential revenue. My response to the attendees > > was simple....I said "...we could can generate 100 times the revenue > > you are concerned about losing if we would quit saying the DB2 is > > better than XPS!". Some of the crowd wasn't amused, some I know agreed > > with me. Regardless, it did not change the plan NOT to offer a free > > version of IDS in the hopes of stimulating the developer community. > > > > My comments got misconstrued and changed "dramatically" by someone > > eavesdropping on the call (and a a few of us are very aware of who that > > was), and by the time they got "up the ladder", all kinds of > > interesting things were being said. > > > > So I was again disappointing at the nixing of a potential great > > marketing tool AND the chance to get IDS spread into the developer > > community. Would have been a great thing. > > > > Thanks - > > Mark. > > > > > > Hamilton, Jerry wrote: > >> I dunno, I think I like JPeG. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org > [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin > >> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:53 AM > >> To: 'Superboer'; informix-list@iiug.org > >> Subject: RE: Informix in the press... > >> > >> Thanks for your nice comment, but I am not responsible of it... I am > working on positive articles as well :)... > >> > >> BTW, it's JGP, not JPeG. > >> > >> > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- > >>> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Superboer > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 19:47 > >>> To: informix-list@iiug.org > >>> Subject: Re: Informix in the press... > >>> > >>> Hello JPG, > >>> > >>> i saw a press release about security bug fixes... > >>> well its the first news in years so i guess its more then nothing; > >>> people see informix is still alive. > >>> > >>> Thanks mate!!! > >>> > >>> > >>> Superboer. > >>> > >>> BTW a positive article would be nice too!!!!!!! specially a story > >>> about cisco???!!! if possible > >>> > >>> > >>> Superboer schreef: > >>> > >>>> sorry mate do not have a name of a journalist, however these folks > >>>> print a lot about it stuff. mainly obstacle. > >>>> > >>>> http://www.computable.nl/ > >>>> > >>>> because it´s mainly obstacle, check and tripple check your story so > >>>> it does not blow up in your face. > >>>> > >>>> Sorry thats all i can do for you > >>>> > >>>> See you > >>>> > >>>> Superboer. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Jean Georges Perrin schreef: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>> You all want to see Informix in the press, so help IIUG achieving > >>>>> this > >>> goal by > >>>>> sending the following information to me: > >>>>> > >>>>> Name of journalist, > >>>>> e-mail, > >>>>> name of newspaper. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> jgp > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Informix-list mailing list > >>> Informix-list@iiug.org > >>> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Informix-list mailing list > >> Informix-list@iiug.org > >> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
Has anyone asked Kazer about this issue? They are one of the premier Informix distributors, and I have worked with them very closely until recently. Note also that the president of the IIUG (SL) is their CTO. It seems odd that this thread continues to point to the IIUG pres and the one that "stopped" the available download issue for the clients, and to-date, there is still no available download. I would think that Kazer would want this download available (not sure though really), and it's odd that the perception is that one of their own stopped it. If this isn't true, someone speak up! In fairness to the original gang at Kazer, in all my "world tours" clients always spoke very positively about their customer interaction/service for the Informix world - the folks like Jack, Thad, Ed, Jennifer and Chris were my main contacts. (Sorry if I left anyone out!). Thanks - Mark. elanleblanc@yahoo.com wrote: > As Darren did, you need to make sure your concerns and issues are > addressed with your IBM sales team or business partner and your > software vendor. If you done that and need to escalate the issue, you > can find most IBM contacts at: > http://www.ibm.com/contact/employees/us/. You do need to know the > correct, complete spelling of last names to lookup online. If you > don't know the spelling, you can call 1-800-426-4968 (1-800-IBM-4-YOU). > The operators have more flexibility when doing lookups. The operators > are using "Blue Pages" which means they can also do wonderful things > for you like connect you with a supervisor's office. Which in Bruce's > case is not Ambuj. > > Most IBM executives will respond to customer contacts (unless, DE, you > have mercilessly flayed one of their employees in public, in which case > they might choose to have one of their employees respond to you instead > :-)). > > IBM is very interested in customer input and customer's can raise > issues all the way to the top. All calls to Sam Palmisano's are > responded to. > > And here comes the part you will want to rip me to shreds over. > > You'll have the most success if your requests are specific and explain > the business justification for your request. It certainly seems to me > EVERYONE would understand the business justification for staying with > IDS and pushing vendors such as Oracle and SAP and Infomatica to > support IDS. But when customers say they will go with Oracle or SQL > Server rather than DB2, IBM usually takes that as either a threat or as > a bargaining maneuver to get a discount on DB2. You need to explain > that your shop has those products in place and the skills to support > them, therefore, that is what makes the most business sense. So both > you and IBM lose when IDS loses. Also, if your shop would use more IDS > if more of your other vendor software supported it, communicate that to > IBM. IBM needs to see that this third party support for IDS has a > financial impact beyond the footprint of the individual third party > vendor products. > > Christine > > > Darren_Jacobs@carmax.com wrote: > > DE, > > > > Bruce supposedly reports directly > > too Ambuj (I had ambuj's email at one point but can't find it at the > > moment). Bruce gave a BS filled breakfast presentation in Atlanta last > > Dec. I would love to here Weed's or Ambuj response to what Mark mentioned > > below. > > > > Bruce Weed <bweed@us.ibm.com> > > Danilo Novelli <danilo@us.ibm.com> > > > > > > > > > > Double Echo > > <doubleecho@your. > > com> To > > Sent by: informix-list@iiug.org > > informix-list-bou cc > > nces@iiug.org > > Subject > > Re: Informix in the press... > > 08/28/2006 10:36 > > PM > > > > > > Please respond to > > doubleecho@your.c > > om > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > Your efforts were noble but obviously in vain, thanks for trying. > > > > Curious that so many people at IBM are doing everything possible > > to keep it under wraps. Is there someone I can write to at IBM to > > complain? > > > > > > mark.scranton@gmail.com wrote: > > > All - > > > > > > I was involved in the discussion about the "free version of IDS for the > > > development community...." (Mar 2006 timeframe). It got axed due to a > > > potential small loss of potential revenue. My response to the attendees > > > was simple....I said "...we could can generate 100 times the revenue > > > you are concerned about losing if we would quit saying the DB2 is > > > better than XPS!". Some of the crowd wasn't amused, some I know agreed > > > with me. Regardless, it did not change the plan NOT to offer a free > > > version of IDS in the hopes of stimulating the developer community. > > > > > > My comments got misconstrued and changed "dramatically" by someone > > > eavesdropping on the call (and a a few of us are very aware of who that > > > was), and by the time they got "up the ladder", all kinds of > > > interesting things were being said. > > > > > > So I was again disappointing at the nixing of a potential great > > > marketing tool AND the chance to get IDS spread into the developer > > > community. Would have been a great thing. > > > > > > Thanks - > > > Mark. > > > > > > > > > Hamilton, Jerry wrote: > > >> I dunno, I think I like JPeG. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org > > [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin > > >> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:53 AM > > >> To: 'Superboer'; informix-list@iiug.org > > >> Subject: RE: Informix in the press... > > >> > > >> Thanks for your nice comment, but I am not responsible of it... I am > > working on positive articles as well :)... > > >> > > >> BTW, it's JGP, not JPeG. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- > > >>> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Superboer > > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 19:47 > > >>> To: informix-list@iiug.org > > >>> Subject: Re: Informix in the press... > > >>> > > >>> Hello JPG, > > >>> > > >>> i saw a press release about security bug fixes... > > >>> well its the first news in years so i guess its more then nothing; > > >>> people see informix is still alive. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks mate!!! > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Superboer. > > >>> > > >>> BTW a positive article would be nice too!!!!!!! specially a story > > >>> about cisco???!!! if possible > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Superboer schreef: > > >>> > > >>>> sorry mate do not have a name of a journalist, however these folks > > >>>> print a lot about it stuff. mainly obstacle. > > >>>> > > >>>> http://www.
Thanks Christine for your comments. I will certainly take your instructions to heart, and may contact a few individuals. I am again noting to myself the one thing you mentioned that seems to support my own observations: IBM is more interested in selling into existing accounts rather than trying to drum up new business. Your comments below support that, such as "staying with IDS". I would challenge you and others to think about how other database vendors sell their products, both to existing customers and to new customers. It appears that new business is not important to IBM--at least at this point in time. Is IDS being treated as a "new" product that needs to be sold only to existing accounts? Is it considered a "test" product? Another thing, and then I'll retreat back into my hollow, is there any reason why IBM would prevent interested parties from advertising or promoting the product on their own, or co-op, or ??? What are the possibilities of IBM marketing setting aside a paltry amount of cash for user/developer sponsored ads that help to push the product? There could be affiliate programs, all kinds of things that could spread the word efficiently without spending a fortune. I am definitely thinking that the IIUG is not what I'm talking about, they have done enough work to keep IDS quiet. If the main argument for not advertising or marketing IDS is money, is there anything people outside of IBM can do to help promote the product, and build some momentum on our own? Seems to me that there wouldn't be anything stopping IBM if the argument is about not having enough money to market the product. I've seen plenty of interest here, but certainly you can't depend on a handful of existing accounts to grow the brand and the market. There isn't any logical reason why IDS isn't being marketed openly other than somebody inside IBM thinks the product is not worth spending any money on. elanleblanc@yahoo.com wrote: > As Darren did, you need to make sure your concerns and issues are > addressed with your IBM sales team or business partner and your > software vendor. If you done that and need to escalate the issue, you > can find most IBM contacts at: > http://www.ibm.com/contact/employees/us/. You do need to know the > correct, complete spelling of last names to lookup online. If you > don't know the spelling, you can call 1-800-426-4968 (1-800-IBM-4-YOU). > The operators have more flexibility when doing lookups. The operators > are using "Blue Pages" which means they can also do wonderful things > for you like connect you with a supervisor's office. Which in Bruce's > case is not Ambuj. > > Most IBM executives will respond to customer contacts (unless, DE, you > have mercilessly flayed one of their employees in public, in which case > they might choose to have one of their employees respond to you instead > :-)). > > IBM is very interested in customer input and customer's can raise > issues all the way to the top. All calls to Sam Palmisano's are > responded to. > > And here comes the part you will want to rip me to shreds over. > > You'll have the most success if your requests are specific and explain > the business justification for your request. It certainly seems to me > EVERYONE would understand the business justification for staying with > IDS and pushing vendors such as Oracle and SAP and Infomatica to > support IDS. But when customers say they will go with Oracle or SQL > Server rather than DB2, IBM usually takes that as either a threat or as > a bargaining maneuver to get a discount on DB2. You need to explain > that your shop has those products in place and the skills to support > them, therefore, that is what makes the most business sense. So both > you and IBM lose when IDS loses. Also, if your shop would use more IDS > if more of your other vendor software supported it, communicate that to > IBM. IBM needs to see that this third party support for IDS has a > financial impact beyond the footprint of the individual third party > vendor products. > > Christine > > > Darren_Jacobs@carmax.com wrote: >> DE, >> >> Bruce supposedly reports directly >> too Ambuj (I had ambuj's email at one point but can't find it at the >> moment). Bruce gave a BS filled breakfast presentation in Atlanta last >> Dec. I would love to here Weed's or Ambuj response to what Mark mentioned >> below. >> >> Bruce Weed <bweed@us.ibm.com> >> Danilo Novelli <danilo@us.ibm.com> >> >> >> >> >> Double Echo >> <doubleecho@your. >> com> To >> Sent by: informix-list@iiug.org >> informix-list-bou cc >> nces@iiug.org >> Subject >> Re: Informix in the press... >> 08/28/2006 10:36 >> PM >> >> >> Please respond to >> doubleecho@your.c >> om >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Mark, >> >> Your efforts were noble but obviously in vain, thanks for trying. >> >> Curious that so many people at IBM are doing everything possible >> to keep it under wraps. Is there someone I can write to at IBM to >> complain? >> >> >> mark.scranton@gmail.com wrote: >>> All - >>> >>> I was involved in the discussion about the "free version of IDS for the >>> development community...." (Mar 2006 timeframe). It got axed due to a >>> potential small loss of potential revenue. My response to the attendees >>> was simple....I said "...we could can generate 100 times the revenue >>> you are concerned about losing if we would quit saying the DB2 is >>> better than XPS!". Some of the crowd wasn't amused, some I know agreed >>> with me. Regardless, it did not change the plan NOT to offer a free >>> version of IDS in the hopes of stimulating the developer community. >>> >>> My comments got misconstrued and changed "dramatically" by someone >>> eavesdropping on the call (and a a few of us are very aware of who that >>> was), and by the time they got "up the ladder", all kinds of >>> interesting things were being said. >>> >>> So I was again disappointing at the nixing of a potential great >>> marketing tool AND the chance to get IDS spread into the developer >>> community. Would have been a great thing. >>> >>> Thanks - >>> Mark. >>> >>> >>> Hamilton, Jerry wrote: >>>> I dunno, I think I like JPeG. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org >> [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:53 AM >>>> To: 'Superboer'; informix-list@iiug.org >>>> Subject: RE: Informix in the press... >>>> >>>> Thanks for your nice comment, but I am not responsible of it... I am >> working on positive articles as well :)... >>>> BTW, it's JGP, not JPeG. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Messag
> I am again noting to myself the one thing you mentioned that seems to > support my own observations: IBM is more interested in selling into > existing accounts rather than trying to drum up new business. Your > comments below support that, such as "staying with IDS". I would > challenge you and others to think about how other database vendors > sell their products, both to existing customers and to new customers. > It appears that new business is not important to IBM--at least at this > point in time. Is IDS being treated as a "new" product that needs to be > sold only to existing accounts? Is it considered a "test" product? > ... If the main argument for not advertising or marketing IDS is money, > is there anything people outside of IBM can do to help promote the > product, and build some momentum on our own? Seems to me that there > wouldn't be anything stopping IBM if the argument is about not having > enough money to market the product. I've seen plenty of interest here, > but certainly you can't depend on a handful of existing accounts to grow > the brand and the market. There isn't any logical reason why IDS > isn't being marketed openly other than somebody inside IBM thinks the > product is not worth spending any money on. You need to understand very clearly that the argument for not advertising or marketing IDS is not a shortage of money. It is that IBM has made a very, very high-up policy desision that it must present to its customers, and more importantly to IT industry analysts, that it has a single flagship database product as part of a coherent database strategy. And that product is DB2. End of story.
Unfortunately, IBM's sales mentality has long been that of farmers, not hunters. And it applies to all products. So they have been farming the existing accounts for years and have not had the organization to break out of that pattern. The good news is that IBM has recently named a very agressive, bright lady to tackle the issue of getting IBM into more white space (new accounts). Even better, she worked closely with the Informix team for almost two years after the acquisition and is very well aware of it's benefits AND it's strong business partner network and loyal customer base (which is critical when trying to go after new customers!). IDS is a very important product to IBM and a true peer product to DB2 (thanks to all the Informix customers and business partners that made themselves heard at IBM and to Ambuj for acting on market demands) and IBM wants to sell as much of IDS as it can to anyone! Granted, the sales force may not have gotten the word on that completely - but that is due to how slowly word spreads in IBM. IBM would not prevent anyone from advertising Informix or Informix related services. If you are a business partner, you should talk to your PartnerWorld representative about getting co-marketing dollars to help you pay for advertising for your solution or services regarding Informix. Advertising co-funded by IBM does have to follow IBM guidelines (such as those regarding IBM logo use) but don't have the restrictions IBM advertising has such as no product specific advertising. Keep in mind that IBM is restricted in what it can do for some types of business partners so co-funding may not be available to all types of partners. If you are an ISV/developer that builds a solution on Informix and you want to hold an event for prospective customers, Ambuj is willing to help fund the event (at least he was as of June 9th). And IBM is willing to help with the presentations and such. IBM's advertising policy is not based on funding. It is based on what IBM "sells". And what IBM "sells" is IBM (hence the incomprehensible advertising). This may be based on what works where IBM has traditionally made most of their money - the Fortune 1000 companies where "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" was of utmost importance. I don't think it works where the money is to be made today which is where Informix has always excelled, in the mid-market. Double Echo wrote: > Thanks Christine for your comments. > > I will certainly take your instructions to heart, and may contact a > few individuals. > > I am again noting to myself the one thing you mentioned that seems to > support my own observations: IBM is more interested in selling into > existing accounts rather than trying to drum up new business. Your > comments below support that, such as "staying with IDS". I would > challenge you and others to think about how other database vendors > sell their products, both to existing customers and to new customers. > It appears that new business is not important to IBM--at least at this > point in time. Is IDS being treated as a "new" product that needs to be > sold only to existing accounts? Is it considered a "test" product? > > Another thing, and then I'll retreat back into my hollow, is there any > reason why IBM would prevent interested parties from advertising or > promoting the product on their own, or co-op, or ??? What are the > possibilities of IBM marketing setting aside a paltry amount of cash > for user/developer sponsored ads that help to push the product? There > could be affiliate programs, all kinds of things that could spread the > word efficiently without spending a fortune. I am definitely thinking > that the IIUG is not what I'm talking about, they have done enough > work to keep IDS quiet. > > If the main argument for not advertising or marketing IDS is money, > is there anything people outside of IBM can do to help promote the > product, and build some momentum on our own? Seems to me that there > wouldn't be anything stopping IBM if the argument is about not having > enough money to market the product. I've seen plenty of interest here, > but certainly you can't depend on a handful of existing accounts to > grow the brand and the market. There isn't any logical reason why IDS > isn't being marketed openly other than somebody inside IBM thinks the > product is not worth spending any money on. > > > elanleblanc@yahoo.com wrote: > > As Darren did, you need to make sure your concerns and issues are > > addressed with your IBM sales team or business partner and your > > software vendor. If you done that and need to escalate the issue, you > > can find most IBM contacts at: > > http://www.ibm.com/contact/employees/us/. You do need to know the > > correct, complete spelling of last names to lookup online. If you > > don't know the spelling, you can call 1-800-426-4968 (1-800-IBM-4-YOU). > > The operators have more flexibility when doing lookups. The operators > > are using "Blue Pages" which means they can also do wonderful things > > for you like connect you with a supervisor's office. Which in Bruce's > > case is not Ambuj. > > > > Most IBM executives will respond to customer contacts (unless, DE, you > > have mercilessly flayed one of their employees in public, in which case > > they might choose to have one of their employees respond to you instead > > :-)). > > > > IBM is very interested in customer input and customer's can raise > > issues all the way to the top. All calls to Sam Palmisano's are > > responded to. > > > > And here comes the part you will want to rip me to shreds over. > > > > You'll have the most success if your requests are specific and explain > > the business justification for your request. It certainly seems to me > > EVERYONE would understand the business justification for staying with > > IDS and pushing vendors such as Oracle and SAP and Infomatica to > > support IDS. But when customers say they will go with Oracle or SQL > > Server rather than DB2, IBM usually takes that as either a threat or as > > a bargaining maneuver to get a discount on DB2. You need to explain > > that your shop has those products in place and the skills to support > > them, therefore, that is what makes the most business sense. So both > > you and IBM lose when IDS loses. Also, if your shop would use more IDS > > if more of your other vendor software supported it, communicate that to > > IBM. IBM needs to see that this third party support for IDS has a > > financial impact beyond the footprint of the individual third party > > vendor products. > > > > Christine > > > > > > Darren_Jacobs@carmax.com wrote: > >> DE, > >> > >> Bruce supposedly reports directly > >> too Ambuj (I had ambuj's email at one point but can't find it at the > >> moment). Bruce gave a BS filled breakfast presentation in Atlanta last > >> Dec. I would love to here Weed's or Ambuj response to what Mark mentioned > >> below. > >> > >> Bruce Weed <bweed@us.ibm.com> > >> Danilo Novelli <danilo@us.ibm.com> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Double Echo > >> <doubleecho@your.@@NL@
That was true at the time of the acquisition but is not true today. IBM has no flagship databases and Ambuj has no favorite children. IBM today has a number of data servers that are taylored to meet specific business requirements. The IT industry analysts have been fierce regarding a vendor having multiple servers that compete in the same space and IBM has been working with them diligently for at least the past year to make them understand that some customers want and need IDS and some think they want and need DB2 just as some GM customers want a corvett and some GM customers want a hummer. It would be nice to see IBM stop trying to please the analysts and just start selling data servers and seeding the development community with products and tools to build IBM data server based solutions. Christine Captain Pedantic wrote: > > You need to understand very clearly that the argument for not advertising or > marketing IDS is not a shortage of money. It is that IBM has made a very, > very high-up policy desision that it must present to its customers, and more > importantly to IT industry analysts, that it has a single flagship database > product as part of a coherent database strategy. > > And that product is DB2. > > End of story.
elanleblanc@yahoo.com wrote: > Unfortunately, IBM's sales mentality has long been that of farmers, not > hunters. And it applies to all products. So they have been farming > the existing accounts for years and have not had the organization to > break out of that pattern. The good news is that IBM has recently > named a very agressive, bright lady to tackle the issue of getting IBM > into more white space (new accounts). Even better, she worked closely > with the Informix team for almost two years after the acquisition and > is very well aware of it's benefits AND it's strong business partner > network and loyal customer base (which is critical when trying to go > after new customers!). > > IDS is a very important product to IBM and a true peer product to DB2 > (thanks to all the Informix customers and business partners that made > themselves heard at IBM and to Ambuj for acting on market demands) and > IBM wants to sell as much of IDS as it can to anyone! Granted, the > sales force may not have gotten the word on that completely - but that > is due to how slowly word spreads in IBM. > > IBM would not prevent anyone from advertising Informix or Informix > related services. If you are a business partner, you should talk to > your PartnerWorld representative about getting co-marketing dollars to > help you pay for advertising for your solution or services regarding > Informix. Advertising co-funded by IBM does have to follow IBM > guidelines (such as those regarding IBM logo use) but don't have the > restrictions IBM advertising has such as no product specific > advertising. Keep in mind that IBM is restricted in what it can do for > some types of business partners so co-funding may not be available to > all types of partners. > > If you are an ISV/developer that builds a solution on Informix and you > want to hold an event for prospective customers, Ambuj is willing to > help fund the event (at least he was as of June 9th). And IBM is > willing to help with the presentations and such. > > IBM's advertising policy is not based on funding. It is based on what > IBM "sells". And what IBM "sells" is IBM (hence the incomprehensible > advertising). This may be based on what works where IBM has > traditionally made most of their money - the Fortune 1000 companies > where "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" was of utmost importance. > I don't think it works where the money is to be made today which is > where Informix has always excelled, in the mid-market. > > > The mid-market doesn't need IBM--at least not directly, it is the crazy nature of the mid-market, where scrappers and tight margins abound and IBM is but one of a lot of choices. If you're _really_ in the mid-market, then you most likely will work with the un-market, those products and services and software that a lot of the 'big' market companies won't touch because they _can_ go after bigger products. These markets kind of take care of themselves. But in the mid-market there are a lot of good sized companies that are not IBM customers, and don't have to be. Dell still holds a lot of ground in these shops as well as HP. What I think would be instructive is to have _some_ kind of market presence for Informix. It doesn't seem to be in _any_ market right now, mid-market or otherwise. Why not put it in the same market space as MySQL? After all, it has _no_ real market right now anyway, so what's the loss?? I mean if IBM thinks IDS is so worthless, why not start actually playing these markets with IDS and see how it competes. I get the impression that IDS is simply a non item at IBM, they really need to put up or shut up. All the ghosts in the closet can't be valid enough excuses to keep it out of the running. Who cares if it _is_ better than DB2, let the market decide.
> has a single flagship database > product as part of a coherent database strategy. > > And that product is DB2. > > End of story. Actually, I don't think that's IBM's strategy at all any more. I think IBM's new strategy is more about managing the data about the data than managing the data itself. But that's possibly a completely different discussion.