Re: Is IBM actually doing something with IDS?
This is an opinion/venting thread rather than a technical problem. A poster weighing whether to spend ~$800 on Informix tooling questions whether IBM is really investing in IDS, complaining that only the engine gets attention and that IBM ignores user and IIUG feedback. Replies argue IBM isn't a single entity: different divisions and matrix-managed layers have conflicting agendas, some do listen, IIUG is getting the message through, and IDS 11 adds features quickly. The exchange drifts into criticism of IBM's management, outsourcing and layoffs. No technical issue is solved and no decision or resolution is recorded.
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>From: Tool <tool@thetool.com> >Sad.... very sad... I don't know if I'm ready to gamble on >plopping down $800 for access to software that may or may >not have a market. I really have to think about this for a >spell before jumping in any further... > >-t- Timmy, Take your time. The market "exists" because its what you make of it, but I don't think that it answers your question. With IDS 11, there's an interesting niche that may prove lucrative. ;-) _________________________________________________________________ Don't miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/
It appears that no amount of chit-chat is going to change anything. IBM seems hellbent on their way of doing things, and that means ignoring completely the input here or most likely, input from even the IIUG. It baffles me how little has actually been done outside of making some changes to the engine. We'll just have to continue at the mercy of IBM to slowly, sluggishly do something. What a waste of time... Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > >> From: Tool <tool@thetool.com> >> Sad.... very sad... I don't know if I'm ready to gamble on >> plopping down $800 for access to software that may or may >> not have a market. I really have to think about this for a >> spell before jumping in any further... >> >> -t- > > Timmy, > > Take your time. > > The market "exists" because its what you make of it, but I don't think > that it answers your question. > > With IDS 11, there's an interesting niche that may prove lucrative. ;-) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from > Microsoft Office Live > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/ >
> >It appears that no amount of chit-chat is going to change >anything. IBM seems hellbent on their way of doing things, >and that means ignoring completely the input here or most >likely, input from even the IIUG. It baffles me how little >has actually been done outside of making some changes to the >engine. We'll just have to continue at the mercy of IBM to >slowly, sluggishly do something. What a waste of time... > Timmy, I don't think you quite understand the inner workings of IBM. You think in terms of IBM being a single entity. So phrases like "IBM doesn't listen" doesn't make sense in the real world. Within IBM, there are different levels and hierarchies. Its worse than the US govt since IBM loves to matrix manage their people and different managers within your matrix of management have different agendas. When those agendas don't align, you have a disconnect. I tried to point this out to my local S&D management team. I even purchased the .pdf copy of an HBR (Harvard Business Review) article talking about this very problem. Unfortunately it didn't sink in. Didn't even scratch the surface. Want to know why? Cause unless the article related directly on how to sell more products to a customer, S&D management doesn't want to know it exists. To them, its a numbers game. Either you make your number on the spreadsheet, or you're gone. (I can go more in to this off line. You know how to reach me. ;-) The sad truth is that there are people who are listening, however there's a large portion of IBM where there are those who haven't heard the message. Also with a company of 350K employees world wide, there are some employees which make Daniel look like a mensa candidate. ;-) So yes, the IIUG is getting the message out to IBM. IBM is listening. ISVs and BPs are selling the product. And yes, the business is growing. With IDS 11 and future releases, the product is getting better. Granted when all products mature and evolve, they tend to get better. But IDS is gaining new features faster than the other products on the market. But you are correct, part of the problem is that there are a lot of individuals within IBM that just don't get it. It takes time for the message to sink in and it takes time to enforce the message. Just remember the phrase... "I want my IDS" ;-) -G _________________________________________________________________ Don't miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/
Thanks Mikey for your helpful and I'm sure 'cathartic' dissertation on the inner workings of IBM. I have had the distinct opportunity to work with IBM as a contractor, never taking a full-time W-2 employment with IBM, since the work would have allowed IBM to own me, and then eventually dump me on the street, as we are now seeing with the -HUGE- layoffs coming from IBM. I've been offered employee status and recently turned it down--smart move in light of these layoffs. I got paid for every hour I worked, but had I been an employee they would have made me work and not get paid for all the hours worked. Plus with their 'competency' model, they rave over how they can move people from one project to the next depending on 'customer needs'. I think this really translates into 'IBM needs' since a lot of people can't really work with the preponderance of dipshit IBM managers on these projects. Anyway, I was appalled at the arrogance that permeated the IBM management on the project I was on. Since I am primarily customer-focused, I was able to spend my days on my project making the customer happy, building relationships directly with the customer, who absolutely hated the IBM presence. So for me it was more about keeping IBM's customer happy, rather than giving a rats ass about IBM, who for the most part has managed to totally screw up their company with the move towards 100% outsourcing, and total incompetence on understanding what the customer needs. I say that with my own sense of cathartic joy, knowing how much the customer hated IBM. It appears to be even more miraculous that Informix will live on in spite of the bungling of IBM. They should call Informix's next release Phoenix if it really takes off. -t- Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > >> >> It appears that no amount of chit-chat is going to change >> anything. IBM seems hellbent on their way of doing things, >> and that means ignoring completely the input here or most >> likely, input from even the IIUG. It baffles me how little >> has actually been done outside of making some changes to the >> engine. We'll just have to continue at the mercy of IBM to >> slowly, sluggishly do something. What a waste of time... >> > > Timmy, > > I don't think you quite understand the inner workings of IBM. > > You think in terms of IBM being a single entity. So phrases like "IBM > doesn't listen" doesn't make sense in the real world. > > Within IBM, there are different levels and hierarchies. Its worse than > the US govt since IBM loves to matrix manage their people and different > managers within your matrix of management have different agendas. When > those agendas don't align, you have a disconnect. I tried to point this > out to my local S&D management team. I even purchased the .pdf copy of > an HBR (Harvard Business Review) article talking about this very > problem. Unfortunately it didn't sink in. Didn't even scratch the > surface. Want to know why? Cause unless the article related directly on > how to sell more products to a customer, S&D management doesn't want to > know it exists. To them, its a numbers game. Either you make your number > on the spreadsheet, or you're gone. > (I can go more in to this off line. You know how to reach me. ;-) > > > The sad truth is that there are people who are listening, however > there's a large portion of IBM where there are those who haven't heard > the message. Also with a company of 350K employees world wide, there are > some employees which make Daniel look like a mensa candidate. ;-) > > So yes, the IIUG is getting the message out to IBM. IBM is listening. > ISVs and BPs are selling the product. And yes, the business is growing. > > With IDS 11 and future releases, the product is getting better. Granted > when all products mature and evolve, they tend to get better. But IDS is > gaining new features faster than the other products on the market. > > But you are correct, part of the problem is that there are a lot of > individuals within IBM that just don't get it. It takes time for the > message to sink in and it takes time to enforce the message. > > Just remember the phrase... "I want my IDS" ;-) > > -G > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from > Microsoft Office Live > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/ >
> >Thanks Mikey for your helpful and I'm sure 'cathartic' dissertation on the >inner workings of IBM. > >I have had the distinct opportunity to work with IBM as a contractor, never >taking a full-time W-2 employment with IBM, since the work would have >allowed >IBM to own me, and then eventually dump me on the street, as we are now >seeing >with the -HUGE- layoffs coming from IBM. Now you see Timmy that IGS/BCS. I've had mixed results from working with that team. I have a lot of respect for the PWC partners that I worked with. Not so much with the IGS weenies. > >-t- SWG is a different beast altogether. But overall, IBM's Management is too busy trying to get their tickets punched, hide from being made redundant, and spend way too much time "networking" than trying to get their job done. Being customer centric and a team player, I'd rather bump heads with the S&D sales team if it protected the customer, my team, and didn't give IBM a black eye. Funny thing. When the acquisition happened, one of my father in-laws neighbors used to be an exec who started out in Chicago during the late 60s. He later left to become a senior exec for Ashon Tate. When we talked over drinks, he painted a different picture that what IBM is today. Its sad really. But IBM is slowly bleading customers because, frankly they just don't give a damn. And that attitude will never change. _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
I think reading all those motivational books is finally kicking in. We have to say thank you to the people who keep trying, to the people who manage the IIUG, to those who believe in the product and try to improve the software, etc. etc. (the list for thank you's goes on). Not trying will not get us anywhere. Trying, we might fail, but we have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain ... Ok, now where did I put my medication ..... -----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Tool Sent: 03 June 2007 06:57 PM To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: Is IBM actually doing something with IDS? It appears that no amount of chit-chat is going to change anything. IBM seems hellbent on their way of doing things, and that means ignoring completely the input here or most likely, input from even the IIUG. It baffles me how little has actually been done outside of making some changes to the engine. We'll just have to continue at the mercy of IBM to slowly, sluggishly do something. What a waste of time... Disclaimer: http://196.33.167.70/disclaimer