RE: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, The Next Informix IDS Release...

Malcolm, first understand I have a lot of respect with what you have been doing for the Informix community. Having said that, I fully disagree with you on many points. Informix is not in "apathy mode". It sure is not as "brilliant" as in early 1997 when Informix corp was cumulating about a quarter of Oracle's revenue. But some did errors and things have changed. However, apathy or anemic are certainly NOT how I'd describe the Informix world today! Are you related to DE? The conference had poor attendance: it was the first ever in Europe. Even IFMX did not do one in the glorious (new) era. Price is high: I will not disclose numbers (which I do not have ;-) ) but IDUG is *not* making a lot of money on European events. IIUG (blame us if you will) is not doing ANY money. Volunteers: the conference in Vienna, from the IIUG standpoint, is manned by volunteers, this include Gary & Paul. If we had 10 times these guys, we'd probably be able to make a cheap conference in my garage... (and along side with my "cave", we could do two tracks, we would even be able to set up a hands on lab on my systems...). And please don't find the excuse of "no time"... I am on a contract, so even if I can access those conferences at "a preferred rate", it means no income during the week. And going to 3 or 4 conferences a year does not bring you knowledge: one or two yes, no more knowledge because you double the time spent in the same type of conference. And I am not an Informix consultant, so I am not even chasing customers there. Please all, stop moaning and complaining, IIUG is looking for volunteers... (and it's not all directed at Malcolm). > -----Original Message----- > From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- > bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of malcolm weallans > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 20:54 > To: 'Jean Georges Perrin'; 'Davorin Kremenjas'; informix-list@iiug.org > Subject: RE: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, The > Next Informix IDS Release... > > Jean Georges, I don't think it is a question of setting an index and > pricing > according to where the people come from. That would generate a big market > in paper companies ostensibly based in the poorest country of the world. > But this is exactly the same problem that we had in trying to fix a > membership fee for IIUG - oh so many years ago. > > What we really need to consider - as a newsgroup and as IIUG - is that we > have a diverse audience. Some may be prepared to pay to attend > conferences > - others might find financing such a venture difficult. Some might have > ample time to attend conferences. Some are managing a number of IDS > servers > single-handedly and our absence needs a lot of justification. Some want > highly technical presentations to justify the expense of both time and > money. Some would be lost with these advanced topics and would like to > have > lower level presentations. > > It has been commented that there weren't many UK informix users at the > conference as well as a shortage of croatians. It would be worth seeing > figures of the numbers of attendees from each country and for proper > comparison how many licences have been sold in those countries and the > average salary of a DBA in those countries and even how many IIUG members > there are in those countries. Perhaps the IIUG could try to publish those > figures. I am sure it would be an interesting exercise collecting the > data > :-) > > But being realistic the apathy towards Informix is a major factor. I > can't > persuade the powers that be to let me attend an Informix conference - but > if > it was Microsoft.... > > Regards > > Malcolm > > -----Original Message----- > From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- > bounces@iiug.org] > On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin > Sent: 09 October 2006 12:22 > To: Davorin Kremenjas; informix-list@iiug.org > Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,The > Next Informix IDS Release... > > > > I also agree with Malcolm, however it is very very complex to set a system > like that. what would be the reference? UK having an index of 100? Belgium > 80? Croatia 30? France (well you need to pay them to make them move)... > > Another comment was that there are less tracks for Informix than DB2, so > should we price proportionnally? > > IIUG can take all those positive and constructive ideas and propose some > changes to IDUG. > > jgp > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:11:54 +0200, Davorin Kremenjas wrote > > "malcolm weallans" <malcolm.iiug@btopenworld.com> wrote in message > > news:mailman.74.1160152453.29455.informix-list@iiug.org... > > > John, > > > I don't think our croatian friend was objecting to having to pay. > > > It's > > > just > > > that it's a lot of money. I don't know what Croatian salaries are > like > > > but > > > I think they are probably a lot less than a DBA would get in UK. > > > > Exactly. > > I wish I said these few sentences as clear as you did, it would > > cause much less confusion. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Informix-list mailing list > > Informix-list@iiug.org > > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > > -- > jgp > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list

The big question is, what does the conference really buy you in the market? Just because Walmart and a few other companies are keeping the Informix lights on doesn't mean the product has a real future. If you can't build a developer base, all you have is a database engine. Look at all the great technology projects over the years that were the "superior" choice, but nobody cared. Unless Informix differentiates itself in the market with some kind of application that works with the database, it's a big nothing. Just nothing. Try this one in google: Thinking Machines . That one is really amazing. All gone now, great technology, with a great future... bwahahahaaaaaaa! 8-) Jean Georges Perrin wrote: > Malcolm, first understand I have a lot of respect with what you have been > doing for the Informix community. > > Having said that, I fully disagree with you on many points. > > Informix is not in "apathy mode". It sure is not as "brilliant" as in early > 1997 when Informix corp was cumulating about a quarter of Oracle's revenue. > But some did errors and things have changed. However, apathy or anemic are > certainly NOT how I'd describe the Informix world today! Are you related to > DE? > > The conference had poor attendance: it was the first ever in Europe. Even > IFMX did not do one in the glorious (new) era. > > Price is high: I will not disclose numbers (which I do not have ;-) ) but > IDUG is *not* making a lot of money on European events. IIUG (blame us if > you will) is not doing ANY money. > > Volunteers: the conference in Vienna, from the IIUG standpoint, is manned by > volunteers, this include Gary & Paul. If we had 10 times these guys, we'd > probably be able to make a cheap conference in my garage... (and along side > with my "cave", we could do two tracks, we would even be able to set up a > hands on lab on my systems...). > > And please don't find the excuse of "no time"... I am on a contract, so even > if I can access those conferences at "a preferred rate", it means no income > during the week. And going to 3 or 4 conferences a year does not bring you > knowledge: one or two yes, no more knowledge because you double the time > spent in the same type of conference. And I am not an Informix consultant, > so I am not even chasing customers there. > > Please all, stop moaning and complaining, IIUG is looking for volunteers... > > (and it's not all directed at Malcolm). > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- >> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of malcolm weallans >> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 20:54 >> To: 'Jean Georges Perrin'; 'Davorin Kremenjas'; informix-list@iiug.org >> Subject: RE: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, The >> Next Informix IDS Release... >> >> Jean Georges, I don't think it is a question of setting an index and >> pricing >> according to where the people come from. That would generate a big market >> in paper companies ostensibly based in the poorest country of the world. >> But this is exactly the same problem that we had in trying to fix a >> membership fee for IIUG - oh so many years ago. >> >> What we really need to consider - as a newsgroup and as IIUG - is that we >> have a diverse audience. Some may be prepared to pay to attend >> conferences >> - others might find financing such a venture difficult. Some might have >> ample time to attend conferences. Some are managing a number of IDS >> servers >> single-handedly and our absence needs a lot of justification. Some want >> highly technical presentations to justify the expense of both time and >> money. Some would be lost with these advanced topics and would like to >> have >> lower level presentations. >> >> It has been commented that there weren't many UK informix users at the >> conference as well as a shortage of croatians. It would be worth seeing >> figures of the numbers of attendees from each country and for proper >> comparison how many licences have been sold in those countries and the >> average salary of a DBA in those countries and even how many IIUG members >> there are in those countries. Perhaps the IIUG could try to publish those >> figures. I am sure it would be an interesting exercise collecting the >> data >> :-) >> >> But being realistic the apathy towards Informix is a major factor. I >> can't >> persuade the powers that be to let me attend an Informix conference - but >> if >> it was Microsoft.... >> >> Regards >> >> Malcolm >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- >> bounces@iiug.org] >> On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin >> Sent: 09 October 2006 12:22 >> To: Davorin Kremenjas; informix-list@iiug.org >> Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,The >> Next Informix IDS Release... >> >> >> >> I also agree with Malcolm, however it is very very complex to set a system >> like that. what would be the reference? UK having an index of 100? Belgium >> 80? Croatia 30? France (well you need to pay them to make them move)... >> >> Another comment was that there are less tracks for Informix than DB2, so >> should we price proportionnally? >> >> IIUG can take all those positive and constructive ideas and propose some >> changes to IDUG. >> >> jgp >> >> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:11:54 +0200, Davorin Kremenjas wrote >>> "malcolm weallans" <malcolm.iiug@btopenworld.com> wrote in message >>> news:mailman.74.1160152453.29455.informix-list@iiug.org... >>>> John, >>>> I don't think our croatian friend was objecting to having to pay. >>>> It's >>>> just >>>> that it's a lot of money. I don't know what Croatian salaries are >> like >>>> but >>>> I think they are probably a lot less than a DBA would get in UK. >>> Exactly. >>> I wish I said these few sentences as clear as you did, it would >>> cause much less confusion. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Informix-list mailing list >>> Informix-list@iiug.org >>> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list >> >> -- >> jgp >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Informix-list mailing list >> Informix-list@iiug.org http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Informix-list mailing list >> Informix-list@iiug.org >> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list >

I am lost! How can you compare Informix, a database technology, with artificial intelligence? The path of your thinking is really strange to me. Your mail is the same kind of usual rambling, then you divert on AI. This is how you want to convince than Informix is anemic? Come on! You can surely do better than that! Or go comp.lang.prolog... > -----Original Message----- > From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- > bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Double Echo > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 07:45 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, > TheNext Informix IDS Release... > > The big question is, what does the conference really buy you in the > market? > > Just because Walmart and a few other companies are keeping the Informix > lights > on doesn't mean the product has a real future. If you can't build a > developer > base, all you have is a database engine. Look at all the great technology > projects over the years that were the "superior" choice, but nobody cared. > Unless Informix differentiates itself in the market with some kind of > application > that works with the database, it's a big nothing. Just nothing. > > Try this one in google: Thinking Machines . That one is really amazing. > All > gone now, great technology, with a great future... bwahahahaaaaaaa! 8-) > > > Jean Georges Perrin wrote: > > Malcolm, first understand I have a lot of respect with what you have > been > > doing for the Informix community. > > > > Having said that, I fully disagree with you on many points. > > > > Informix is not in "apathy mode". It sure is not as "brilliant" as in > early > > 1997 when Informix corp was cumulating about a quarter of Oracle's > revenue. > > But some did errors and things have changed. However, apathy or anemic > are > > certainly NOT how I'd describe the Informix world today! Are you related > to > > DE? > > > > The conference had poor attendance: it was the first ever in Europe. > Even > > IFMX did not do one in the glorious (new) era. > > > > Price is high: I will not disclose numbers (which I do not have ;-) ) > but > > IDUG is *not* making a lot of money on European events. IIUG (blame us > if > > you will) is not doing ANY money. > > > > Volunteers: the conference in Vienna, from the IIUG standpoint, is > manned by > > volunteers, this include Gary & Paul. If we had 10 times these guys, > we'd > > probably be able to make a cheap conference in my garage... (and along > side > > with my "cave", we could do two tracks, we would even be able to set up > a > > hands on lab on my systems...). > > > > And please don't find the excuse of "no time"... I am on a contract, so > even > > if I can access those conferences at "a preferred rate", it means no > income > > during the week. And going to 3 or 4 conferences a year does not bring > you > > knowledge: one or two yes, no more knowledge because you double the time > > spent in the same type of conference. And I am not an Informix > consultant, > > so I am not even chasing customers there. > > > > Please all, stop moaning and complaining, IIUG is looking for > volunteers... > > > > (and it's not all directed at Malcolm). > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- > >> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of malcolm weallans > >> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 20:54 > >> To: 'Jean Georges Perrin'; 'Davorin Kremenjas'; informix-list@iiug.org > >> Subject: RE: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006, > The > >> Next Informix IDS Release... > >> > >> Jean Georges, I don't think it is a question of setting an index and > >> pricing > >> according to where the people come from. That would generate a big > market > >> in paper companies ostensibly based in the poorest country of the > world. > >> But this is exactly the same problem that we had in trying to fix a > >> membership fee for IIUG - oh so many years ago. > >> > >> What we really need to consider - as a newsgroup and as IIUG - is that > we > >> have a diverse audience. Some may be prepared to pay to attend > >> conferences > >> - others might find financing such a venture difficult. Some might > have > >> ample time to attend conferences. Some are managing a number of IDS > >> servers > >> single-handedly and our absence needs a lot of justification. Some > want > >> highly technical presentations to justify the expense of both time and > >> money. Some would be lost with these advanced topics and would like to > >> have > >> lower level presentations. > >> > >> It has been commented that there weren't many UK informix users at the > >> conference as well as a shortage of croatians. It would be worth > seeing > >> figures of the numbers of attendees from each country and for proper > >> comparison how many licences have been sold in those countries and the > >> average salary of a DBA in those countries and even how many IIUG > members > >> there are in those countries. Perhaps the IIUG could try to publish > those > >> figures. I am sure it would be an interesting exercise collecting the > >> data > >> :-) > >> > >> But being realistic the apathy towards Informix is a major factor. I > >> can't > >> persuade the powers that be to let me attend an Informix conference - > but > >> if > >> it was Microsoft.... > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Malcolm > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- > >> bounces@iiug.org] > >> On Behalf Of Jean Georges Perrin > >> Sent: 09 October 2006 12:22 > >> To: Davorin Kremenjas; informix-list@iiug.org > >> Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand > 2006,The > >> Next Informix IDS Release... > >> > >> > >> > >> I also agree with Malcolm, however it is very very complex to set a > system > >> like that. what would be the reference? UK having an index of 100? > Belgium > >> 80? Croatia 30? France (well you need to pay them to make them move)... > >> > >> Another comment was that there are less tracks for Informix than DB2, > so > >> should we price proportionnally? > >> > >> IIUG can take all those positive and constructive ideas and propose > some > >> changes to IDUG. > >> > >> jgp > >> > >> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:11:54 +0200, Davorin Kremenjas wrote > >>> "malcolm weallans" <malcolm.iiug@btopenworld.com> wrote in message > >>> news:mailman.74.1160152453.29455.informix-list@iiug.org... > >>>> John, > >>>> I don't think our croatian friend was objecting to having to pay. > >>>> It's > >>>> just > >>>> that it's a lot of money. I don't know what Croatian salaries are > >> like > >>>> but > >>>> I think they are probably a lot less than a DBA would get in UK. > >>> Exactly. > >>> I wish I said these few sentences as clear as you did, it would > >>> cause much less confusion. > >>>@@N