Re: Informix vs Oracle, Sybase +...

Art Not to be heretical here :-), but I read the book "Gorilla Game" by Kippola, et al, last weekend, and suddenly the reason why Informix, in spite of being on-time with its deliveries and having a better product, still loses out to Oracle, becomes clear. It has nothing to do with the product or timeliness and everything about being there first and capitalizing on it. It also means that Oracle, due to its market positioning, can get away with much more than Informix and that Informix will be penalized harder by its customers (new ones as well as existing ones) for smaller infractions than comparable ones by Oracle. Simply put, Oracle has the market by the b***s and Informix hasn't. And if the book is to be believed (and it sure sounds logical), this is how its going to be, regardless of how much horn-tooting Informix does. And before you think to yourself, "whats up with Einstein heah?", I find this situation as frustrating as most others on this NG. And no, I am not a spokesperson for the authors of the book, Oracle or Informix :-). Just my $ 0.02. Sujit "Art S. Kagel" <kagel@bloomberg.net> on 08/03/99 10:45:13 AM Please respond to kagel@bloomberg.net To: informix-list@iiug.org cc: (bcc: Sujit Pal) Subject: Re: Informix vs Oracle, Sybase +... Thomas Parsli wrote: > > "Art S. Kagel" <kagel@bloomberg.net> writes: > > > Thomas Parsli wrote: > > > > > > "Art S. Kagel" <kagel@bloomberg.net> writes: > > > > > > ... > > > [SNIP] > > > ... > > > > > > > You are correct about Sybase, however, the Linux port is an unsupported and > > > > outdated version so we can ignore it. > > > > > > ASE 11.0.3.3 is free, unsupported and works -a lot of people runs this version > > > on other UNIX-versions so ignoring it would be rather harsh:) > > > > > > ASE 11.9.2 is not free, supported and works better, this is the latest version > > > and Linux is fully supported. > > > > I think this is great, Thomas. I honestly have not checked out the Sybase > > offerings on Linux for a few months, but since they had made no noises or > > pre-announcements of a supported version I, wrongly, assumed only the > > unsupported version is shipping. > > > > Art S. Kagel > > It's not that great -you can order now, shipping starts 1/9/99. Is that January 9, 2099 or does Sybase have a Y2K problem? Perhaps you meant 1/9/2000? Then that is not a real product is it? So my original statement that Sybase is only shipping an out-of-date version with no support still holds! Now I have to rail. No one seems to realize that Oracle announced Oracle 8i for Linux in June 1998 and did not deliver until last month, a year later. Here Sybase has announced ASE 11.9.2 sometime in the recent past and is not even scheduling delivery until January, who knows when they will actually deliver! And here Informix announced SE for Linux last July and delivered CDs the same day! Informix announced IDS for Linux in the fall of 1998 and delivered CDs one week later! They announced Classic 4GL for Linux around the same time and delivered within the month! Now they have announced IDS 2000 and Foundation 2000 and have scheduled release for August 31, and I'd be very surprised if the CDs do not ship before September 7! So why is it that when ANYONE mentions RDBMS support for Linux Informix is not First amoung unequals? First to ship, product after product after product after.... And the stuff works, out of the box, first time. None of the Linux specific bugs have been earth shattering (zombies in SE, need to expand open files for IDS, NET VP problems in IDS) and patches and new versions were out the door within weeks. I know the answer, so Mikey don't carry your own campaign here, Informix just does not know how to toot their horn. I think they are learning though. Slowly but surely. We live in hope. Art S. Kagel

Sujit.Pal@bankofamerica.com wrote: > > Art > > Not to be heretical here :-), but I read the book "Gorilla Game" by > Kippola, et al, last weekend, and suddenly the reason why Informix, in > spite of being on-time with its deliveries and having a better product, > still loses out to Oracle, becomes clear. It has nothing to do with the > product or timeliness and everything about being there first and > capitalizing on it. It also means that Oracle, due to its market > positioning, can get away with much more than Informix and that Informix > will be penalized harder by its customers (new ones as well as existing > ones) for smaller infractions than comparable ones by Oracle. Simply put, > Oracle has the market by the b***s and Informix hasn't. And if the book is > to be believed (and it sure sounds logical), this is how its going to be, > regardless of how much horn-tooting Informix does. I do not disagree, however, the Alpha Male is eventually replaced by a younger, stronger, more dynamic male but only if he tries! Informix has rarely tried. > And before you think to yourself, "whats up with Einstein heah?", I find > this situation as frustrating as most others on this NG. And no, I am not a > spokesperson for the authors of the book, Oracle or Informix :-). I would not have thought otherwise ;-) Art S. Kagel > "Art S. Kagel" <kagel@bloomberg.net> on 08/03/99 10:45:13 AM > > Please respond to kagel@bloomberg.net > > To: informix-list@iiug.org > cc: (bcc: Sujit Pal) > Subject: Re: Informix vs Oracle, Sybase +... > > Thomas Parsli wrote: > > > > "Art S. Kagel" <kagel@bloomberg.net> writes: > > > > > Thomas Parsli wrote: > > > > > > > > "Art S. Kagel" <kagel@bloomberg.net> writes: > > > > > > > > ... > > > > [SNIP] > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > You are correct about Sybase, however, the Linux port is an > unsupported and > > > > > outdated version so we can ignore it. > > > > > > > > ASE 11.0.3.3 is free, unsupported and works -a lot of people runs > this version > > > > on other UNIX-versions so ignoring it would be rather harsh:) > > > > > > > > ASE 11.9.2 is not free, supported and works better, this is the > latest version > > > > and Linux is fully supported. > > > > > > I think this is great, Thomas. I honestly have not checked out the > Sybase > > > offerings on Linux for a few months, but since they had made no noises > or > > > pre-announcements of a supported version I, wrongly, assumed only the > > > unsupported version is shipping. > > > > > > Art S. Kagel > > > > It's not that great -you can order now, shipping starts 1/9/99. > > Is that January 9, 2099 or does Sybase have a Y2K problem? Perhaps you > meant 1/9/2000? Then that is not a real product is it? So my original > statement that Sybase is only shipping an out-of-date version with no > support still holds! > > Now I have to rail. No one seems to realize that Oracle announced Oracle > 8i for Linux in June 1998 and did not deliver until last month, a year > later. Here Sybase has announced ASE 11.9.2 sometime in the recent past > and is not even scheduling delivery until January, who knows when they > will actually deliver! And here Informix announced SE for Linux last July > and delivered CDs the same day! Informix announced IDS for Linux in the > fall of 1998 and delivered CDs one week later! They announced Classic 4GL > for Linux around the same time and delivered within the month! Now they > have announced IDS 2000 and Foundation 2000 and have scheduled release for > August 31, and I'd be very surprised if the CDs do not ship before > September 7! > > So why is it that when ANYONE mentions RDBMS support for Linux Informix is > not First amoung unequals? First to ship, product after product after > product after.... And the stuff works, out of the box, first time. None > of the Linux specific bugs have been earth shattering (zombies in SE, need > to expand open files for IDS, NET VP problems in IDS) and patches and new > versions were out the door within weeks. > > I know the answer, so Mikey don't carry your own campaign here, Informix > just does not know how to toot their horn. I think they are learning > though. Slowly but surely. We live in hope. > > Art S. Kagel