Re: Informix conference

Neil Truby wrote: > "Double Echo" <doubleecho@your.com> wrote in message > news:DSkag.90023$PE6.40306@fe53.usenetserver.com... > >>Obnoxio The Clown wrote: >> >>>Double Echo said: >>> >>>>IBM really needs to get outside the box and look at their market, and >>>>look at what kind of message they are _really saying_, not what they >>>>insist is the message. It looks today like IBM wants to argue with >>>>customers but not really offer what the customer wants. Strangely >>>>familiar... >>> >>>You're not as dumb as you look. :o) >>> >>>IBM has the worst case of NIH Syndrome I've ever, EVER seen. It's a pure >>>Dilbert scenario: some numbnuts lickspittle reworks some old IBM idea >>>with >>>new buzzwords and cons senior management that this is the way forward. >>>For >>>the next year, then, all IBM does is put forward some tired old idea >>>dressed up in new buzzwords and calls it "innovation". >>> >>>I've given up trying to do business with them, they have their own agenda >>>(whether it's what the market wants is entirely irrelevant, "don't you >>>know who we are?") and a sufficiently large base of dumb corporate drones >>>that will just follow the "blue route" blindly over a cliff. >>> >> >>Not to change the subject, but isn't it curious that there was no c.d.i. >>coverage of the last conference? > > > When I was on the IIUG Board, and responsible for conference presence, I > used to wrote a report of each one I attended. I rarely got any comments > though so I'm not sure how appreciated they were. > > According to the front page of the IIUG website (www.iiug.org) the > presentations from last week are available for download to members. > > The point was obviously lost based on the responses given. I'm talking about coverage DURING the conference. No promotions DURING the conference, no live web casts, no web events tying people together to PROMOTE the event. It's the most perverted ( in the truest sense of the word ) misuse of a marketing event. The people who are prospective buyers and users must PAY to be pitched to, and trained. It's all backwards. Buyers and users should never have to pay, it's ridiculous. IBM or whoever should be paying US to be a part of the event. But I know most people will yawn and ignore what I'm saying: IBM IS SELLING SOFTWARE AND CHARGING YOU MONEY TO LEARN ABOUT IT AT THE CONFERENCE. This is perverted, and thusly why I don't understand the sheer laziness and lack of creativity for all those people that put on these tremendous interruptions in business. Promotions should be done, but to charge people to attend is indeed an insult. Informix 10? Who cares? Not even IBM! Time to update the conference model with the 21st century. Not a single blog or RSS Feed! Amazing!

"Double Echo" <doubleecho@your.com> wrote in message news:qOEag.106095$Ek3.42231@fe52.usenetserver.com... > Neil Truby wrote: >> "Double Echo" <doubleecho@your.com> wrote in message >> news:DSkag.90023$PE6.40306@fe53.usenetserver.com... > The point was obviously lost based on the responses given. I'm talking > about coverage DURING the conference. No promotions DURING the > conference, > no live web casts, no web events tying people together to PROMOTE the > event. > > It's the most perverted ( in the truest sense of the word ) misuse of a > marketing event. The people who are prospective buyers and users must PAY > to be pitched to, and trained. It's all backwards. Buyers and users > should > never have to pay, it's ridiculous. IBM or whoever should be paying US to > be > a part of the event. But I know most people will yawn and ignore what I'm > saying: IBM IS SELLING SOFTWARE AND CHARGING YOU MONEY TO LEARN ABOUT IT > AT > THE CONFERENCE. This is perverted, and thusly why I don't understand the > sheer laziness and lack of creativity for all those people that put on > these > tremendous interruptions in business. Promotions should be done, but to > charge people to attend is indeed an insult. Informix 10? Who cares? > Not > even IBM! Time to update the conference model with the 21st century. Not > a single blog or RSS Feed! Amazing! Yes, I missed your point. Regarding attendance though, I wonder if this is a cultural thing. As I see it Americans are generally quite happy to pay to attend this sort of event. In England there is *very* strong resistance to paying for vendors' "educational" events. The IDUG event is a *user* one though, and it is a major contributor to the funding IDUG as an organisation financially independent of IBM and therefore, arguably, a more credible representor of users' views better able to express unpalatable truths to IBM, its vendor. You might legitimaely criticise IBM for its lack of promotion of Informix, and you might also think that the IDUG conference is the wrong event for the IIUG to associate itself with, but I think it misses the point to criticise IDUG, or IBM, for the IDUG event being a chargeable occasion.

Double Echo wrote: > The point was obviously lost based on the responses given. I'm talking > about coverage DURING the conference. No promotions DURING the conference, > no live web casts, no web events tying people together to PROMOTE the > event. > > It's the most perverted ( in the truest sense of the word ) misuse of a > marketing event. The people who are prospective buyers and users must PAY > to be pitched to, and trained. It's all backwards. Buyers and users > should > never have to pay, it's ridiculous. IBM or whoever should be paying US > to be > a part of the event. >But I know most people will yawn and ignore what I'm > saying: IBM IS SELLING SOFTWARE AND CHARGING YOU MONEY TO LEARN ABOUT > IT AT > THE CONFERENCE. This is perverted, and thusly why I don't understand the > sheer laziness and lack of creativity for all those people that put on > these > tremendous interruptions in business. Promotions should be done, but to > charge people to attend is indeed an insult. Informix 10? Who cares? Not > even IBM! Time to update the conference model with the 21st century. Not > a single blog or RSS Feed! Amazing! This was an event run and organized by IIUG and IDUG. The conference proudly claims "run by users for users" If you don't like the job they did, help out. Bickering is the easy way. Now I trust you will claim that IBM should pay for the event completely. But in the same breath others in this group will argue that IIUG is not independent and IBM got IIUG and IDUG by the purse. You can't have it both ways. The sessions were not selected by IBM and there were plenty of non IBM speakers. Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab

Neil Truby wrote: > "Double Echo" <doubleecho@your.com> wrote in message > news:qOEag.106095$Ek3.42231@fe52.usenetserver.com... > >>Neil Truby wrote: >> >>>"Double Echo" <doubleecho@your.com> wrote in message >>>news:DSkag.90023$PE6.40306@fe53.usenetserver.com... > > >>The point was obviously lost based on the responses given. I'm talking >>about coverage DURING the conference. No promotions DURING the >>conference, >>no live web casts, no web events tying people together to PROMOTE the >>event. >> >>It's the most perverted ( in the truest sense of the word ) misuse of a >>marketing event. The people who are prospective buyers and users must PAY >>to be pitched to, and trained. It's all backwards. Buyers and users >>should >>never have to pay, it's ridiculous. IBM or whoever should be paying US to >>be >>a part of the event. But I know most people will yawn and ignore what I'm >>saying: IBM IS SELLING SOFTWARE AND CHARGING YOU MONEY TO LEARN ABOUT IT >>AT >>THE CONFERENCE. This is perverted, and thusly why I don't understand the >>sheer laziness and lack of creativity for all those people that put on >>these >>tremendous interruptions in business. Promotions should be done, but to >>charge people to attend is indeed an insult. Informix 10? Who cares? >>Not >>even IBM! Time to update the conference model with the 21st century. Not >>a single blog or RSS Feed! Amazing! > > > Yes, I missed your point. > > Regarding attendance though, I wonder if this is a cultural thing. As I see > it Americans are generally quite happy to pay to attend this sort of event. > In England there is *very* strong resistance to paying for vendors' > "educational" events. > Honestly, I don't think I'm going out on a broken limb here, most Americans are as reluctant to pay as well, hoping that their respective employer will foot the bill, but with a less than 50% chance of expectation, and actually getting to go. It is expensive to send people to conferences, always has been, always will be. This has already been argued ad infinitum so I won't belabor the point. Management has to allow people to go, pay for their time, and the conference, and so the real question is whether Informix is worth it. It is becoming less and less important. > The IDUG event is a *user* one though, and it is a major contributor to the > funding IDUG as an organisation financially independent of IBM and > therefore, arguably, a more credible representor of users' views better able > to express unpalatable truths to IBM, its vendor. You might legitimaely > criticise IBM for its lack of promotion of Informix, and you might also > think that the IDUG conference is the wrong event for the IIUG to associate > itself with, but I think it misses the point to criticise IDUG, or IBM, for > the IDUG event being a chargeable occasion. > True dat. But I think it really shows a lack of creativity or real, genuine interest from IBM for the Informix family not to host its own conference and marketing event(s) focused on Informix. It shows what absolute zeros there are in the marketing department to spend so little time, and as was pointed out, putting the burden of event success on volunteers. This is extremely lazy to say the least. It was inexcusable in the past to see so much money go out the window to executives at Informix Corp, now IBM owns Informix and really doesn't give a shit one way or the other, putting maybe some occasional sprinklings of interest to the Informix community. The community drove the product, and for the most part is now disintegrating to the point where there won't be much of a community if there is no back-me-up from IBM. It's an insult to support a product if you can't even get the vendor to pay attention and co-op the marketing. It's such a waste of a market, but maybe that's what IBM really wants to do with it, just let it whither on the vine. Conferences can and should get with the reality that it's not just about the paying or non-paying attendees, it's about supporting the people who use the product whether they attend or not, and to make the conference as available and accessible as possible over the net. This is not rocket science. When you look at the bigger picture, the conference concept is just not well thought out, and has more of an old-school approach. RSS feeds, Blogs, event pages, webinars, flash video, all these tools should be part of the conference experience, as more of a global event than just getting a vacation to a live commercial event YOU have to pay to attend. Developers should be rewarded not punished to use the products. I think Jerry and others made several good points about better value coming out of regional events, but I would challenge even these folks to get more of a "think global act local" mindset. It's 2006 for chryshakes! -DE-

Serge Rielau wrote: > This was an event run and organized by IIUG and IDUG. The IIUG is owned by IBM. > The conference proudly claims "run by users for users" > If you don't like the job they did, help out. When they pay me to I will. When they pay me to attend I will attend. > Bickering is the easy way. Yes. ( But not listening to your customers and developers is arrogant. ) > Now I trust you will claim that IBM should pay for the event completely. Yes. > But in the same breath others in this group will argue that IIUG is not > independent and IBM got IIUG and IDUG by the purse. Yes. I don't about IDUG, but I do know IIUG is owned by IBM. > You can't have it both ways. > True dat. But if IIUG is owned by IBM then IBM should really ask themselves if they are getting the value for the money. Looks to me like they're getting a lot of nothing for the help they have now. The marketing department needs to be fired--all of them, GONE. > The sessions were not selected by IBM and there were plenty of non IBM > speakers. > OK, so IBM has no responsibility? They own the product and the user group, so where do they wash their hands of it? > Cheers > Serge > When I have a beer in my hand I say cheers, but not otherwise.

Double Echo wrote: > > When I have a beer in my hand I say cheers, but not otherwise. > Not to be pedantic, but I would expect the beer to be in a bottle/jug/can/glass, and said container in your hands.... -- Ciao, Marco ______________________________________________________________________________ Marco Greco /UK /IBM Standard disclaimers apply! Structured Query Scripting Language http://www.4glworks.com/sqsl.htm 4glworks http://www.4glworks.com Informix on Linux http://www.4glworks.com/ifmxlinux.htm

Marco Greco wrote: > Double Echo wrote: > >> >> When I have a beer in my hand I say cheers, but not otherwise. >> > > Not to be pedantic, but I would expect the beer to be in a > bottle/jug/can/glass, and said container in your hands.... > Yes. Obviously.

> > Serge Rielau wrote: > > This was an event run and organized by IIUG and IDUG. > > The IIUG is owned by IBM. OK, I'll bite, what makes you think that ? Paul Watson Tel: +44 1414161772 Mob: +44 7818003457 GO FURTHER with DB2 GET THERE FASTER with Informix. Attend the IDUG 2006 European Conference. Vienna, Austria. 2-6 October 2006 Visit http://www.iiug.org/conf for more information.

> -----Original Message----- > From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org > [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Double Echo > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 16:31 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > Subject: Re: Informix conference > > Serge Rielau wrote: > > This was an event run and organized by IIUG and IDUG. > > The IIUG is owned by IBM. What a joke!