Hardware Comparison between SUN E6900 and IBM P570
A user asked for real-world comparisons between a Sun E6900 (16-way dual core) and an IBM p570 (12-way) as an Informix production server: which runs IDS better, reliability, and how large a database each can handle. Replies were anecdotal and contradictory — some reported poor Sun hardware/OS experiences and praised AIX/POWER5, others had excellent Sun results and found AIX painful (AIX quirks noted: LVM offsets for chunks, no RESIDENT, shared-memory segment limits; on Sun use raw character devices with KAIO). It was noted IDS 10.00.FC1 has a native Linux-on-POWER port (the x86 build won't run there). Advice was to benchmark or consult independent reports; no conclusion or decision is recorded.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
We are buying new production servers. We are coming off our current hardware platform and trying to decide between SUN and IBM servers. The particular server candidates are SUN E6900 16 way dual core versus IBM p570 12 way servers. I would like to know about your experience on these platforms? Does Informix run better on one than the other? How reliable has Informix been on each of the platforms? How much "database" does each seem to support? I am very sketchy on hardware platforms so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
bozon said: > We are buying new production servers. We are coming off our current > hardware platform and trying to decide between SUN and IBM servers. > > The particular server candidates are SUN E6900 16 way dual core versus > IBM p570 12 way servers. > > I would like to know about your experience on these platforms? I seem to be in a minority here, my experience with Sun has been uniformly horrible: rubbish components, memory failures, disk failures, bad performance, tons of downtime. I'd always go somewhere else than Sun. But I am in a minority ... aren't I? > Does Informix run better on one than the other? It depends. > How reliable has Informix been on each of the platforms? Yes. > How much "database" does each seem to support? Eh? > I am very sketchy on hardware platforms so any help would be greatly > appreciated. I've never been disappointed with IBM tin, to be honest, and I was violently opposed to it to start with. It's good kit, and touch wood, it's been really reliable. Performance has always been great, too! -- Bye now, Obnoxio Information within this post contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the S E C Act of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fact and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. The poster is not a reporting company registered under the Exchange Act of 1934. I have received a life peerage from Her Majesty, who is not an officer, minister or affiliate Labour party member. I intend to recover my loan now, which could cause the parliamentary majority to go down, resulting in losses for you. Today's Labour party has: an accumulated deficit and a reliance on loans from officers and affiliates to pay expenses. It is not an operating political party. The party is going to need financing to continue as a going concern. A failure to finance could cause the party to go out of business. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. You can lose all your money by investing in this party.
OTO Said > > > How much "database" does each seem to support? > > Eh? > I was thinking it broad terms. For example at my last company we used a 64 way sun box E10000 at the time, to support a badly written application supporting 3000 users. The database was 400 Gigabytes. Performance was reasonable until someone did something stupid. (cross product 100 million row tables) The problem is that MIPS, or benchmarks mean so little. So if you are comparing IBM versus SUN one might quote you a tricycle and the other might quote you a Ferrari. Of course the tricycle will cost less but can it really beat a Ferrari? Since I haven't worked on a lot of different hardware I can't tell if the salesbots are blowing smoke when they say our 10 way is faster than their 16 way. It might be or they are just trying to make a sale knowing that once we go to all of the trouble of moving to the new platform they can sell us an upgrade because our application is "surprise" not performing as we and they thought it would. I know they would be so dissappointed to have underestimated to get the business and then have us turn around and have to buy more hardware. I am also not the biggest fan of IBM (I had to write JCL for about a year and I will never forgive them for this.) I am a fan of the power processor it looks really fast. How is AIX as an operating system? Can you run Informix on Linux on a power box or will the Linux version only run on x86 hardware?
bozon said: > > OTO Said >> >> > How much "database" does each seem to support? >> >> Eh? > > I was thinking it broad terms. For example at my last company we used a > 64 way sun box E10000 at the time, to support a badly written > application supporting 3000 users. The database was 400 Gigabytes. > Performance was reasonable until someone did something stupid. (cross > product 100 million row tables) Well, I've never been unhappy with how well AIX boxes have soaked up load over the years, going all the way back to the 320H. > The problem is that MIPS, or benchmarks mean so little. So if you are > comparing IBM versus SUN one might quote you a tricycle and the other > might quote you a Ferrari. Of course the tricycle will cost less but > can it really beat a Ferrari? Since I haven't worked on a lot of > different hardware I can't tell if the salesbots are blowing smoke when > they say our 10 way is faster than their 16 way. It might be or they > are just trying to make a sale knowing that once we go to all of the > trouble of moving to the new platform they can sell us an upgrade > because our application is "surprise" not performing as we and they > thought it would. I know they would be so dissappointed to have > underestimated to get the business and then have us turn around and > have to buy more hardware. Benchmark them. > I am also not the biggest fan of IBM (I had to write JCL for about a > year and I will never forgive them for this.) I am a fan of the power > processor it looks really fast. :o) Well, now you can write shell scripts. ;o) > How is AIX as an operating system? Can you run Informix on Linux on a > power box or will the Linux version only run on x86 hardware? Personally, I'd go with AIX, but that's just because my experiences with AIX have generally been good and I have no experience with IDS on Power Linux. -- Bye now, Obnoxio Information within this post contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the S E C Act of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fact and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. The poster is not a reporting company registered under the Exchange Act of 1934. I have received a life peerage from Her Majesty, who is not an officer, minister or affiliate Labour party member. I intend to recover my loan now, which could cause the parliamentary majority to go down, resulting in losses for you. Today's Labour party has: an accumulated deficit and a reliance on loans from officers and affiliates to pay expenses. It is not an operating political party. The party is going to need financing to continue as a going concern. A failure to finance could cause the party to go out of business. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. You can lose all your money by investing in this party.
bozon wrote: >We are buying new production servers. We are coming off our current >hardware platform and trying to decide between SUN and IBM servers. > >The particular server candidates are SUN E6900 16 way dual core versus >IBM p570 12 way servers. > > OK. >I would like to know about your experience on these platforms? > > Sun, excellent; IBM, unknown. >Does Informix run better on one than the other? > > Sun, excellent (hundreds of large-scale data bases); IBM dunno. >How reliable has Informix been on each of the platforms? > > Sun, extremely; IBM, dunno. >How much "database" does each seem to support? > > Sun, nearly none; IBM, dunno. >I am very sketchy on hardware platforms so any help would be greatly >appreciated. > >Thanks. > > Additional comments: I've been working with Informix (starting with Cromemco Cromix versions) for a long time. I've always found it reliable, easy to use, and, pretty much, unbreakable unless you do really stupid things (don't we all now and again). I have had excellent experience with Sun hardware, operating system and software tools -- the Sun C compiler system is ANSI/ISO compliant, works like it's supposed to and I don't have problems to deal with (a lot of our stuff is ESQL/C and compiled 4-GL). On the occasions that I've had to work on an AIX system I got a lot of gray hair fighting with the damned things -- AIX is not UNIX (or, for that matter, Linux). Nothing wrong with Sun, nothing wrong with Linux. If you like telephone calls at three in the morning, you'll love AIX. -- This message is a private communication. It may contain information that is confidential and legally protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient, please do not read, copy or use this message or any attachments, and do not disclose them to others. Please notify the sender of the delivery error by replying to this message, and they delete it and any attachments from your system. Thank you, Solucient LLC
"Obnoxio The Clown" <obnoxio@serendipita.com> wrote in message news:mailman.213.1143751805.18205.informix-list@iiug.org... > > > Benchmark them. This is usually beyond the resources of most end users. How are they going to that? Of course, a nippy, light-on-its-feet flexible company like IBM will have a spare p570 in the customer's site, on loan for a month's benchmarking say ("But hey ... take your time!"), before you can blink an eye, but maybe Sun aren't so reactive! Seriously, you should think twice about life for end users before saying something glib like "benchmark them". What you might do is look at independent benchmarks like IDEAS International's RPE ones. You'll have to pay, but a p570 is the best part of '300k list so you shouldn't begrudge a few hundred quid on a report. But even these will just give an idea across a range of applications, not exclusively database and definitely not Informix. I used such a report last week to convince a new customer that he should buy p570s insetad of Sun v890s - of course he should and the benchmarks were vastly superior, but he like you was rightly sceptical. We sell and support both: my own experience is that the Suns are decent kit - I don't have the same bad experiences as Obnoxio - but if it were my money I'd buy the IBM pSeries. The POWER5 chip is superb, and the ones I've seen - more at the lower end - deliver superb performance and reliability.
bozon wrote: > We are buying new production servers. We are coming off our current > hardware platform and trying to decide between SUN and IBM servers. > > The particular server candidates are SUN E6900 16 way dual core versus > IBM p570 12 way servers. > > I would like to know about your experience on these platforms? > > Does Informix run better on one than the other? > Don't know. > How reliable has Informix been on each of the platforms? > Don't know. > How much "database" does each seem to support? > Don't know. > I am very sketchy on hardware platforms so any help would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks. > FWIW, I had a similar set of experiences to OTC with Sun, I'd never recommend it. Too many bad experiences...and SunOS is just pure shyte, the worst UNIX ever. AIX is the best UNIX, but on Power5 you can run either AIX or Linux, and or Windows all at the same time. But don't forget about AMD, and Opteron or FX chips. AMD has a great set of chips right now, very fast and way ahead of Intel. You should create a spreadsheet with the base cost of each server, plus the cost for each software package you intend to run, plus maintenance and support. If you really want minimal downtime, or know what the production environment requirements are, ask for a few reference accounts from each vendor, of customers that have the same requirements as you do, and find out what they are running. You should also find out if the software vendor is going by SpecInts for their pricing, and what they charge for dual-core--and possibly quad-core, which is right around the corner. ( www.spec.org ) But also check out what AMD has to offer, you can get AMD from IBM, HP, and no-name DIY systems that are a much better value than Sun, Also check out blade servers, including from IBM, HP, and Dell--except Dell isn't doing AMD. You can do really good with AMD Opteron or FX, the performance is fantastic. Funny thing, if you go with Informix on Sun you really are going with not only software that is going to disappear but also a hardware company that is going to disappear too...just as irrelevant, what a great combination. Neither have a vision for the future, and are on borrowed time. If you have to flip it into DB2, you'll be better off on IBM hardware, or AMD, either of these platforms will give you fast systems and great support.
Neil Truby said: > --===============0587786112== > > "Obnoxio The Clown" <obnoxio@serendipita.com> wrote in message > news:mailman.213.1143751805.18205.informix-list@iiug.org... >> >> >> Benchmark them. > > This is usually beyond the resources of most end users. Well, then, they will just have to take a swing and hope for the best, won't they? Would you buy a car without a test drive? > How are they > going > to that? Of course, a nippy, light-on-its-feet flexible company like IBM > will have a spare p570 in the customer's site, on loan for a month's > benchmarking say ("But hey ... take your time!"), before you can blink an > eye, but maybe Sun aren't so reactive! Or they might have a lab where you can go and do your benchmarks. I have used IBM's facilities in Hursley once for customer (and this was for something where IBM wasn't even going to get a sale out of it!) I'm sure Sun have similar facilities. I don't know whether it's a bad thing that hardware vendors don't have dozens of state-of-the-art boxes lying around for the whims of their erratic customers. People who actually bought the tin would wind up contributing to the costs of the demo fleet, which would make us all unhappy. One of my other customers has no problems hiring a piece of tin if they want to benchmark it, the costs are nothing compared to the costs of making the wrong decision. > Seriously, you should think twice > about life for end users before saying something glib like "benchmark > them". Seriously, you should remember that I am effectively just a contractor. They doesn't stop me from having an opinion about doing things properly or doing things in a cowboy-like fashion. At the end of the day, any car will get you from A to B. But if you test drive it, you will find out if the cup holders are convenient for you, what the fit and finish feels like, and how it feels to drive. What Car? can't tell you that. -- Bye now, Obnoxio Information within this post contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the S E C Act of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fact and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. The poster is not a reporting company registered under the Exchange Act of 1934. I have received a life peerage from Her Majesty, who is not an officer, minister or affiliate Labour party member. I intend to recover my loan now, which could cause the parliamentary majority to go down, resulting in losses for you. Today's Labour party has: an accumulated deficit and a reliance on loans from officers and affiliates to pay expenses. It is not an operating political party. The party is going to need financing to continue as a going concern. A failure to finance could cause the party to go out of business. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. You can lose all your money by investing in this party.
Double Echo said: > Funny thing, if you go with Informix on Sun you really are going with not > only software > that is going to disappear but also a hardware company that is going to > disappear too...just > as irrelevant, what a great combination. Neither have a vision for the > future, and are on > borrowed time. If you have to flip it into DB2, you'll be better off on > IBM hardware, or > AMD, either of these platforms will give you fast systems and great > support. You are a woman, and I claim my '5. -- Bye now, Obnoxio Information within this post contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the S E C Act of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fact and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. The poster is not a reporting company registered under the Exchange Act of 1934. I have received a life peerage from Her Majesty, who is not an officer, minister or affiliate Labour party member. I intend to recover my loan now, which could cause the parliamentary majority to go down, resulting in losses for you. Today's Labour party has: an accumulated deficit and a reliance on loans from officers and affiliates to pay expenses. It is not an operating political party. The party is going to need financing to continue as a going concern. A failure to finance could cause the party to go out of business. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. You can lose all your money by investing in this party.
Both are ok, however i like Sun better!!!!! is a very nice and friendly os. however carefull you may need to order'/get log. volume managers. --may be someone can confirm/correct me??!! check it out!! on aix lvm will always store stuff on the first few KB of a logical volume so if you add a dbspace/chunk REMEMBER to use an offset of a few 100 KB if you miss that lvm or.. may puke. Also afaikr on aix you can not use /set RESIDENT. dono how memory management is nowadays... however in the past it was kinda can of wurms.... os allowed only 11 segments of shared mem and thin ice... they were handed out in at least chunks of 256 MB....; search for it in this news group or somewhere else; there should be a couple of good storys on this subject. --may be someone can confirm/correct me??!! on SUN make sure that char mode raw devs are used with kaio. you may want to benchmark them . Superboer. bozon schreef: > We are buying new production servers. We are coming off our current > hardware platform and trying to decide between SUN and IBM servers. > > The particular server candidates are SUN E6900 16 way dual core versus > IBM p570 12 way servers. > > I would like to know about your experience on these platforms? > > Does Informix run better on one than the other? > > How reliable has Informix been on each of the platforms? > > How much "database" does each seem to support? > > I am very sketchy on hardware platforms so any help would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks.
On Thursday 30 March 2006 21:12, you wrote: > OTO Said > > > > How much "database" does each seem to support? > > > > Eh? > > I was thinking it broad terms. For example at my last company we used > a 64 way sun box E10000 at the time, to support a badly written > application supporting 3000 users. The database was 400 Gigabytes. > Performance was reasonable until someone did something stupid. (cross > product 100 million row tables) > > The problem is that MIPS, or benchmarks mean so little. So if you are > comparing IBM versus SUN one might quote you a tricycle and the other > might quote you a Ferrari. Of course the tricycle will cost less but > can it really beat a Ferrari? Since I haven't worked on a lot of > different hardware I can't tell if the salesbots are blowing smoke > when they say our 10 way is faster than their 16 way. It might be or > they are just trying to make a sale knowing that once we go to all of > the trouble of moving to the new platform they can sell us an upgrade > because our application is "surprise" not performing as we and they > thought it would. I know they would be so dissappointed to have > underestimated to get the business and then have us turn around and > have to buy more hardware. > > I am also not the biggest fan of IBM (I had to write JCL for about a > year and I will never forgive them for this.) I am a fan of the power > processor it looks really fast. > > How is AIX as an operating system? Can you run Informix on Linux on a > power box or will the Linux version only run on x86 hardware? A native port of IDS 10.00.FC1 is available for Linux on a power box (pseries). The x86 port of IDS do not run on a power box. Andreas > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
OTO Said: > Would you buy a car without a test drive? I had a friend that used this line in college with his dates. It never seemed to work for him. Maybe I'll have better luck with IBM and SUN than he had with his dates. OTO Said: > I don't know whether it's a bad thing that hardware vendors don't have > dozens of state-of-the-art boxes lying around for the whims of their > erratic customers. People who actually bought the tin would wind up > contributing to the costs of the demo fleet, which would make us all unhappy. I think the actual cost of the hardware is pennies on the dollar for what they are selling it for. That doesn't mean they are ripping us off, just think about all of the fixed costs involved in creating a server. Even if the box had only $0.10 of parts if the fixed costs totaled a $100 million then they would have to sell 1,000 at $100,010 to break even*. So, they actually might be willing to loan us some machines to play with since we are going to buy more than 1 and it only takes $0.10 to make one of them ;-). After, all once they have committed all of those fixed costs to the servers they are really desperate to sell them. * break even price = fix cost / ( num units - variable cost )