RE: OT was Oracle 10G

Posted in 2004

Topics: Connectivity: ESQL/C, 4GL & Embedded SQL, Server Administration

Brian Minnick — Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:40:21 -0500 — source: Usenet: comp.databases.informix

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C405FD.989BAB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It used to be that a person, smart enough, hard-working enough could secure a descent position through just experience in the USA. I have a B.S. degree in computer science and 15 years of DBA and development experience. However,I have to compete with foreigners here on visas with such credentials as PhD's in mathematics and like disciplines, along with having dual masters degrees computer science and electrical engineering AND are willing to work for half the pay. I'm not talking about top positions either, I'm competing for just 4gl programming positions anymore. Who would you hire? USA Citizen 15 years of successful experience BS in CIS from a top US university Asking as little as 60k per year. Or Visa holder PhD in Physics MS Electrical engineering 5 years experience as DBA / developer Willing to work for 40k per year. Having top notch credentials in the USA is imperative today if you want to find a technical position that pays enough to live on. It sure doesn't seem worth the time and effort anymore. My suggestion to college students in the USA is to not study CIS, engineering sciences, but to go into management, services, trash collection anything that has nothing to do with technology. Now that's from experience, B -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Morgan [mailto:damorgan@x.washington.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:57 AM To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: OT was Oracle 10G malcolm weallans wrote: > I've never subscribed to the view that a degree was essential for any > job, and for programming it is often a drawback. It seems to me that to > get a degree you have to think like other people, whereas the good > programmers think differently to others. > > Malcolm <SARCASM> Which of course makes programming different from physics, chemistry, medicine, law, and numerous other professions. </SARCASM> -- Daniel Morgan http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/oad/oad_crs.asp http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/aoa/aoa_crs.asp damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C405FD.989BAB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2654.45"> <TITLE>RE: OT was Oracle 10G</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> It used to be that a person, smart enough, = hard-working enough could secure a descent position through just experience in the USA. I have a B.S. = degree in computer science and 15 years of DBA and development = experience. However,I have to compete with foreigners here on visas = with such credentials as PhD's in mathematics and like disciplines, = along with having dual masters degrees computer science and electrical = engineering AND are willing to work for half the pay.  I'm not = talking about top positions either, I'm competing for just 4gl = programming positions anymore. Who would you hire? USA Citizen 15 years of successful experience BS in CIS from a top US university Asking as little as 60k per year. Or Visa holder PhD in Physics MS Electrical engineering 5 years experience as DBA / developer Willing to work for 40k per year. Having top notch credentials in the USA is imperative today if you want to find a = technical position that pays enough to live on.  It sure doesn't seem = worth the time and effort anymore. My suggestion to = college students in the USA is to not study CIS, = engineering sciences, but to go into management, services, = trash collection anything that has nothing to do = with technology. Now that's from experience, B -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Morgan [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:damorgan@x.washington.edu">mailto:damorgan@x.washington.e= du</A>] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:57 AM To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: OT was Oracle 10G malcolm weallans wrote: > I've never subscribed to the view that a degree = was essential for any > job, and for programming it is often a = drawback. It seems to me that to > get a degree you have to think like other = people, whereas the good > programmers think differently to others. > > Malcolm <SARCASM> Which of course makes programming different from = physics, chemistry, medicine, law, and numerous other = professions. </SARCASM> -- Daniel Morgan <A = HREF=3D"http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/oad/oad_crs.= asp" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/oa= d/oad_crs.asp</A> <A = HREF=3D"http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/aoa/aoa_crs.= asp" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/ao= a/aoa_crs.asp</A> damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply) </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C405FD.989BAB20-- sending to informix-list

↪ replying to Brian Minnick

Data Goob — Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:40:23 -0500 — source: Usenet: comp.databases.informix

I couldn't agree more. Get the art degree, it's more acceptable when you have to shift to bartending and waitering because you can't find work in IT. Let the Indians build the apps, everyone else can get used to selling on Ebay in their off-hours while not waitering or bartending. Of course you could always move to India with the CS degree, very scenic geography, lots of work and great people. LOL Brian Minnick wrote: > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand > this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C405FD.989BAB20 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > It used to be that a person, smart enough, hard-working > enough could secure a descent position > through just experience in the USA. I have a B.S. degree in computer science > and 15 years of DBA and development experience. However,I have to compete > with foreigners here on visas with such credentials as PhD's in mathematics > and like disciplines, along with having dual masters degrees computer > science and electrical engineering AND are willing to work for half the pay. > I'm not talking about top positions either, I'm competing for just 4gl > programming positions anymore. > > Who would you hire? > > USA Citizen > 15 years of successful experience > BS in CIS from a top US university > Asking as little as 60k per year. > > Or > > Visa holder > PhD in Physics > MS Electrical engineering > 5 years experience as DBA / developer > Willing to work for 40k per year. > > > > Having top notch credentials in the USA is > imperative today if you want to find a technical > position that > pays enough to live on. It sure doesn't seem worth > the time and effort anymore. My suggestion to college > students in the USA is to not study CIS, engineering > sciences, but to go into management, services, trash > collection anything that has nothing to do with > technology. > > Now that's from experience, > > B > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Morgan [mailto:damorgan@x.washington.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:57 AM > To: informix-list@iiug.org > Subject: Re: OT was Oracle 10G > > > malcolm weallans wrote: > >>I've never subscribed to the view that a degree was essential for any >>job, and for programming it is often a drawback. It seems to me that to >>get a degree you have to think like other people, whereas the good >>programmers think differently to others. >> >>Malcolm > > > <SARCASM> > Which of course makes programming different from physics, chemistry, > medicine, law, and numerous other professions. > </SARCASM> >

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