Informix/Oracle

Hi All, I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available 24/7. The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would consider moving to Oracle database" Please give me your comments on this statement. Thanks

Lies. Sent from my iPad > On Sep 5, 2014, at 2:14 AM, "FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT" <flipv@raf.co.za> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > 24/7. > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would consider > moving to Oracle database" > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > Thanks > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. >

Agree with you Flip, blame it on IBM its step father. Informix won't get new customers but those have been using Informix for more than 10 years know how good it is. I have a customer who is still using his mission critical system on IDS 9.21 which is out of support for over 10 years. Others RDBMS would have turned to stone by now. From: &quot;FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT&quot;flipv@raf.co.za Sent:Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:44:06 +0530 To: ids@iiug.org Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660] Hi All, > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > 24/7. > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would consider > moving to Oracle database" > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > Thanks > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > >

On 05/09/14 08:13, FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT wrote: > Hi All, > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > 24/7. > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would consider > moving to Oracle database" > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > Thanks > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Corporation#Oracle_banned_from_bidding_for_U S_General_Services_Administration_business Consistent blatant lies and overbilling have gotten Oracle banned from bidding for GSA contracts since 2010. Given that your friendly Oracle sales rep is lying on both the Informix roadmap and the HA accounts, maybe that's two reasons why you should choose Informix over Oracle. -- Ciao, Marco ______________________________________________________________________________ Marco Greco /UK /IBM Standard disclaimers apply! Structured Query Scripting Language http://www.4glworks.com/sqsl.htm 4glworks http://www.4glworks.com Informix on Linux http://www.4glworks.com/ifmxlinux.htm

Can we say "FUD"? This is, if not a blatant and outright lie (aka "sales pitch"), a clear distortion of the actual position. Seems to me IBM have actually a clear commitment to maintain and enhance IDS. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Lloyd S <lloyd_s@rediffmail.com> wrote: > Agree with you Flip, blame it on IBM its step father. Informix won't get > new > customers but those have been using Informix for more than 10 years know > how > good it is. > I have a customer who is still using his mission critical system on IDS > 9.21 > which is out of support for over 10 years. Others RDBMS would have turned > to > stone by now. > > From: &quot;FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT&quot;flipv@raf.co.za > Sent:Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:44:06 +0530 > To: ids@iiug.org > Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660] > Hi All, > > > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product > and > > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > > 24/7. > > > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would > consider > > moving to Oracle database" > > > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --001a11c2410a7fff8605024f6965

Flip: Whoa! I've heard of salespeople streching the truth, but this is a bald faced lie! Or more than one actually. Either the salesman is lying to you or his management lied to him! I'm sure someone from IBM will join this thread, but for now here is the truth as I know it: - IBM has a roadmap for Informix going out to 2020 and beyond. It is open ended and there is no plan to stop selling or to stop developing, maintaining, and enhancing Informix. - Informix is not stagnant. In the 13+ years that IBM has owned the product it has made more enhancements and improvements to the product and implemented more new features than Informix Corp. did in the 20+ years that it existed. - As for High Availability: Informix has the strongest suite of high availability and data replication features in the industry, bar none! Not Oracle, not DB2, not any other product is better at this one mission critical feature than Informix. Informix is certified to five 9's of availability, that's 99.999% uptime or better! I know customer sites that have had no unplanned downtime in years! Only with Informix can you perform a rolling upgrade of your entire grid of servers without any downtime for your users. Here's a link to a recent study on this very subject published by Database Trends and Applications: http://www.dbta.com/DBTA-Downloads/WhitePapers/Comparing-IBM-Informix-and-Oracle -Database-for-High-Availability-and-Data-Replication-an-ITG-Manage-4751.aspx The introduction to the article says: IBM Informix is the clear choice over Oracle Database for High Availability and Data Replication Organizations with requirements for data replication and high availability are frequently met with daunting costs, especially if they are considering Oracle database and RAC. They should be aware that there is an alternative. IBM Informix offers enterprise-class database availability in a significantly less complex, less expensive manner for both distributed and centralized deployments. - Most of Oracle's High Availability is provided by extra cost 3rd party products and products that were formerly 3rd party which it bought outright and now sells to its customers at additional cost. Even Oracle's Real Application Clusters (RAC) feature is an extra cost option that required additional software to be run on your servers and specialized high speed network backbones for efficiency. Oracle has no native data replication feature. - All of Informix's high availability options are not only included in the product at no additional cost, but are native and part of the database engine itself and do not require any additional software to be run. This includes: - HDR - High Availability Data Replication: a configurable synchronous, near synchronous, or asynchronous replication system when you can have a secondary server with fast reliable connectivity to the primary server. This uses standard networking hardware and protocols. Expensive specialized high speed backbones (like Infiniband) are not required. You can have one HDR secondary for each primary server. The equivalent feature in Oracle is extra cost from a 3rd party. - RSS - Remote Secondary Server: a highly configurable asynchronous or delayed synchronous replicated secondary server feature for situations when the secondary is farther from the primary or when network connectivity is slower or less reliable than HDR requires. The delayed synchronization feature is useful for protecting data from fumble fingered users making recovery of accidentally modified or deleted data simpler. This is a unique Informix feature. You can have as many RSS secondary servers as needed. There is not direct equivalent for Oracle. - SDS - Shared Disk Secondary Server: this is a shared disk or clustered solution to high availability and load distribution and scale-up. This is the equivalent of Oracle's RAC product but at no additional cost. Where RAC rarely scales beyond three or four co-servers, Informix SDS will scale to dozens or more secondary servers and does not require any specialized networking hardware. You can bring up an SDS secondary to handle unusual loads in seconds and Informix's Connection Manager will immediately begin routing new user connections to the new secondary. - ER - Enterprise Replication: this is a fully configurable feature that provides data replication at the server, database, table or even down to the row level. You can configure ER to gather data transactions from smaller local servers consolidating it into a central super server containing all of the data. You can configure ER to distribute transactions from a central super server to local servers containing subsets of the data. You can configure ER to maintain a massive grid of hundreds of geographically distributed servers all in near sychronization across the world. - Flexible Grid: an extension to ER added by IBM in the last 5 years that allows Database Administrators to manage a world spanning grid of ER, HDR, RSS, and SDS servers from a single location. DBAs can execute server level commands such as adding storage to any or all servers in the grid, execute DDL like creating or altering tables in any, some, or all of the servers in the grid. - Grid Query: is a capability that IBM implemented just over a year ago that allows you to distribute your database across an entire Flexible Grid comprised of dozens or hundreds of server such that users can query the the entire grid as a single massively distributed database with a single simple query. A database that was originally central to a single server can be reconfigured to be distributed and the applications that access the data do not have to be modified to continue to work and return the expected data. This feature eliminates the need to use ER to maintain a massive central server in a globally distributed enterprise. - CM -Connection Manager: is an optional connection director and/or router that is included with Informix at no additional cost. You can run and manage your entire HA universe of Informix servers without it or turn it on for extra features. Connection Manager is used for load balancing between multiple primary and secondary servers and to intelligently redirect users to surviving servers if one or more nodes fail. CM can also manage server fail over assigning which secondary server will take over as primary if a primary server goes offline. There is no equivalent feature or functionality in Oracle. - Uninterruptable Transactions: A feature of Informix HDR, SDS, and RSS server clusters that guarantees that transactions begun by client applications connected to a secondary server (whether HDR, RSS, or SDS) will complete successfully without any application intervention if the@

Expected from a competitor who assumes customers are not well informed. He probably is stuck in 2001 when that was the "official Oracle speech". The problem is that 13 years have passed, and IBM launched the following Informix versions: 9.40, 10, 11.10, 11.50, 12.10. 5 major versions in 13 years. On average 1 each 2.6 years. Not bad for a product with no roadmap. It could be better if I included 9.3 which I think was released by IBM, but with little to no influence. It's your choice to trust the future based on FUD from competitors or the past history from IBM. And if you know Informix you know the great features IBM have been putting in Informix. I'd recommend this blog post, apologizing for self promotion: http://informix-technology.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/10-years-of-ibm-10-anos-de-ibm .html It was written 3 years ago... You just have to add up 12.10 version to the bunch... It doesn't change the global idea... just enforces it... As for HA options... HDR, multiple RSS, multiple SDS, ER... I think we have plenty options... But if you need some technical clarification... As for the FUD... When he says to you (he will) that IBM doesn't have a public roadmap for Informix, ask him to show you the public roadmap Oracle has for their database. When you get a public document that has real features and not vaporware come back to us :) Regards. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 8:13 AM, FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT <flipv@raf.co.za> wrote: > Hi All, > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > 24/7. > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would > consider > moving to Oracle database" > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > Thanks > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently... --001a11c2d676e3963905024f8f19

I think it's clear that these are just made up reasons that might work on less clued-up customers or ones who favour Oracle in any case. It's FUD. A quick google found this roadmap presentation for VNext+ and VNext++. http://www.informix.nu/pagang/Informix_v12_1_Highlights-RoadMap-2013%20and%20Bey ond-v1.pdf If I wanted to pick a weakness in Informix, high availability would not be it. There is little than can be done with DataGuard, RAC and GoldenGate than cannot be achieved with Informix flexible grid. Oracle's implementations are not perfect or have trade-offs: RAC can reduce performance for applications unless the workload can be split out so that nodes in the cluster do not need access to the same blocks. As I look after both databases, I can think of some areas where Oracle is stronger but it's horses for courses and I agree with the consensus that many apps are easier to run and may run faster on Informix. I think the lesson here is to do your own research and testing and don't trust salespeople :)

Hi, I appreciate all of you who have responded on this. We are continually adding significant enhancements to the product. We also continue to add new customers. You can't keep a business alive without new customers, partners, and enhancements to technology. Regards, Jerry Keesee From: "Lloyd S" <lloyd_s@rediffmail.com> To: ids@iiug.org Date: 09/05/2014 06:31 AM Subject: Re: Informix/Oracle [33662] Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org Agree with you Flip, blame it on IBM its step father. Informix won't get new customers but those have been using Informix for more than 10 years know how good it is. I have a customer who is still using his mission critical system on IDS 9.21 which is out of support for over 10 years. Others RDBMS would have turned to stone by now. From: &quot;FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT&quot;flipv@raf.co.za Sent:Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:44:06 +0530 To: ids@iiug.org Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660] Hi All, > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > 24/7. > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would consider > moving to Oracle database" > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > Thanks > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > ******************************************************************************* Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.

Flip, in case you do not know, Madison is the IBM engineer and genius behind Informix's Industry leading HA features. He should know! Art Art S. Kagel, Principal Consultant ASK Database Management Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/ Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:11 AM, Madison Pruet <mpruet@us.ibm.com> wrote: > Lies. > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 2:14 AM, "FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT" <flipv@raf.co.za> > wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product > and > > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > > 24/7. > > > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would > consider > > moving to Oracle database" > > > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --001a11c33b7c9a543b05024fa381

Aaaah, Nothing to get the old hive humming like Orrible FUD. cheers all. j. =20 On Sep 5, 2014, at 7:17 AM, Jerry Keesee <jkeesee@us.ibm.com> wrote: > Hi,=20 >=20 > I appreciate all of you who have responded on this. We are continually=20= > adding significant enhancements to the product. We also continue to = add=20 > new customers. You can't keep a business alive without new customers,=20= > partners, and enhancements to technology.=20 >=20 > Regards,=20 > Jerry Keesee=20 >=20 > From: "Lloyd S" <lloyd_s@rediffmail.com>=20 > To: ids@iiug.org=20 > Date: 09/05/2014 06:31 AM=20 > Subject: Re: Informix/Oracle [33662]=20 > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org=20 >=20 > Agree with you Flip, blame it on IBM its step father. Informix won't = get=20 > new=20 > customers but those have been using Informix for more than 10 years = know=20 > how=20 > good it is.=20 > I have a customer who is still using his mission critical system on = IDS=20 > 9.21=20 > which is out of support for over 10 years. Others RDBMS would have = turned=20 > to=20 > stone by now.=20 >=20 > From: &quot;FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT&quot;flipv@raf.co.za=20 > Sent:Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:44:06 +0530=20 > To: ids@iiug.org=20 > Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660]=20 > Hi All,=20 >>=20 >> I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person:=20 >>=20 >> "Please note the below note to add in your motivation:=20 >>=20 >> IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant = product=20 > and=20 >> there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix.=20 >>=20 >> High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards = the=20 >=20 >> Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it=20 > available=20 >> 24/7.=20 >>=20 >> The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would=20= > consider=20 >> moving to Oracle database"=20 >>=20 >> Please give me your comments on this statement.=20 >>=20 >> Thanks=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > = **************************************************************************= *****=20 >=20 >> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.=20= >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 > = **************************************************************************= *****=20 >=20 > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.=20 >=20 >=20 > = **************************************************************************= *****=20 > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.=20= >=20

I forgot to add something.... It' in the article, but maybe you don't have the patient to read it... Ask that guy how many Oracle versions are fully supported without extra cost. For Informix the answer is 11.50 (which was released in 2008), 11.70 and 12.10. And since we write that the EOS (End Of Support) must be announced with one year advance, this will still be true in September 2015. Less forced migrations, more value for money, more investment protection.... A while ago only Oracle 11g was supported. Now 12c is in the bunch, but for some time only one supported version... And we have customers complaining.... oh well... :) On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Fernando Nunes <domusonline@gmail.com> wrote: > Expected from a competitor who assumes customers are not well informed. > He probably is stuck in 2001 when that was the "official Oracle speech". > The problem is that 13 years have passed, and IBM launched the following > Informix versions: > 9.40, 10, 11.10, 11.50, 12.10. > 5 major versions in 13 years. On average 1 each 2.6 years. Not bad for a > product with no roadmap. > It could be better if I included 9.3 which I think was released by IBM, but > with little to no influence. > It's your choice to trust the future based on FUD from competitors or the > past history from IBM. And if you know Informix you know the great features > IBM have been putting in Informix. > > I'd recommend this blog post, apologizing for self promotion: > > > > http://informix-technology.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/10-years-of-ibm-10-anos-de-ibm .html > > It was written 3 years ago... You just have to add up 12.10 version to the > bunch... It doesn't change the global idea... just enforces it... > > As for HA options... HDR, multiple RSS, multiple SDS, ER... > I think we have plenty options... But if you need some technical > clarification... > > As for the FUD... When he says to you (he will) that IBM doesn't have a > public roadmap for Informix, ask him to show you the public roadmap Oracle > has for their database. > When you get a public document that has real features and not vaporware > come back to us :) > > Regards. > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 8:13 AM, FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT <flipv@raf.co.za> > wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product > and > > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > > 24/7. > > > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would > > consider > > moving to Oracle database" > > > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > -- > Fernando Nunes > Portugal > > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com > My email works... but I don't check it frequently... > > --001a11c2d676e3963905024f8f19 > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently... --001a11c2d676b2503605024fa791

Art, I hate to stick up for the other side, but I do like to stick to the technical facts. Are you aware of DataGuard? It's not a third party feature, doesn't require any specialist hardware, supports multiple targets and delayed apply. Infiniband is not required for RAC either, although it is recommended.

Ben: I do tend to get carried away. To mangle an old saying "Fight FUD with FUD!" As far as RAC without Infiniband, you know as well as I do that it is as near to a requirement for decent performance as you can get. DataGuard is, IB, an extra cost item and I honestly thought that it used to be a 3rd party product that Oracle bought. No true? Adding you to my list of multiple product DBAs that prefer Informix when there's a choice and no compelling reason to use another DB. Art Art S. Kagel, Principal Consultant ASK Database Management Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/ Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:23 AM, BENJAMIN THOMPSON < benjamin.thompson@bskyb.com> wrote: > Art, I hate to stick up for the other side, but I do like to stick to the > technical facts. Are you aware of DataGuard? It's not a third party > feature, > doesn't require any specialist hardware, supports multiple targets and > delayed > apply. Infiniband is not required for RAC either, although it is > recommended. > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --001a11c36698e883aa05024fd378

I suppose that by 3rd party it's assumed the Golden Gate product which has been bought by Oracle (mainly due to the fact that their native table base replication never won against this product). DG and RAC are extra cost on top of the "enterprise" product, but that discussion always comes down to $$$ and discounts so it's a never ending story. But yes, once you buy Informix Enterprise Edition you can use all the features apart Warehouse accelerator and storage optimization (compression). On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:23 PM, BENJAMIN THOMPSON < benjamin.thompson@bskyb.com> wrote: > Art, I hate to stick up for the other side, but I do like to stick to the > technical facts. Are you aware of DataGuard? It's not a third party > feature, > doesn't require any specialist hardware, supports multiple targets and > delayed > apply. Infiniband is not required for RAC either, although it is > recommended. > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently... --001a11c2d676c2cbbd05024fde07

Yes DG is an extra-cost option with Active DataGuard a further charge on top of that but it's been integrated with Oracle for all the time I've been using it. IBM's policy of letting you use all the replication types for free as long as you don't run any queries on them is quite generous really :) So what Oracle sells as DataGuard is free with most Informix editions; you only pay when you query a secondary, which for Oracle is Active Dataguard.

Hi All, Thank you all very much for your response. You have supplied me with very useful information that I can present to my superiors in the hope that I can convince them to stay with Informix. They have been using Informix now for more than 15 years.

Mostly correct, yes. Note though that you are not paying to use HDR, RSS, SDSsecondaries separately if you query them, you just have to pay for the Informix licenses on the secondary in that case. If you are only using the secondary as a warm failover backup server, you ONLY have to pay for the Informix licenses on the primary. It is my understanding that even if you do not access the data on a DataGuard secondary you still have to pay for the base Oracle license on that machine which is different and far more expensive than Informix. A license for Enterprise Edition of either Informix or Oracle on a substantial machine with say 32 processor cores can run into high six or even seven figures so the savings under Informix in this case is not trivial. Art Art S. Kagel, Principal Consultant ASK Database Management Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/ Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:54 AM, BENJAMIN THOMPSON < benjamin.thompson@bskyb.com> wrote: > Yes DG is an extra-cost option with Active DataGuard a further charge on > top > of that but it's been integrated with Oracle for all the time I've been > using > it. > > IBM's policy of letting you use all the replication types for free as long > as > you don't run any queries on them is quite generous really :) So what > Oracle > sells as DataGuard is free with most Informix editions; you only pay when > you > query a secondary, which for Oracle is Active Dataguard. > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --089e0158c5166cc6ce05025059d6

Hi People We work with Informix for more than 25 years. And think Informix is the best database in the world. The best no always is the popular. We work with Informix because it have best Performance, Low Administration, High Available an best ROI. Regards. -- Saludos Cordiales Rubén Dután Gerente APLEXT CIA. LTDA. Soluciones AX-ERP & TIC www.aplext.com.ec El vie, 05-09-2014 a las 03:13 -0400, FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT escribió: > Hi All, > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > 24/7. > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would consider > moving to Oracle database" > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > Thanks > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Este mensaje ha sido analizado por MailScanner en busca de virus y otros contenidos peligrosos, y se considera que está limpio. For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk

Well said Ruben! Art Art S. Kagel, Principal Consultant ASK Database Management Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/ Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Ruben Dutan <ruben.dutan@aplext.com.ec> wrote: > Hi People We work with Informix for more than 25 years. And think > Informix is the best database in the world. > The best no always is the popular. > We work with Informix because it have best Performance, Low > Administration, High Available an best ROI. > Regards. > -- > Saludos Cordiales > > Rubén Dután > Gerente > APLEXT CIA. LTDA. > Soluciones AX-ERP & TIC > www.aplext.com.ec > > El vie, 05-09-2014 a las 03:13 -0400, FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT escribió: > > Hi All, > > > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product > and > > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > > 24/7. > > > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would > consider > > moving to Oracle database" > > > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > -- > Este mensaje ha sido analizado por MailScanner > en busca de virus y otros contenidos peligrosos, > y se considera que está limpio. > For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > --089e0158ad54a2c9850502514f7d

I just received an email from a partner in Europe. He asked me to post it. Here it is: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- Hi Fernando , Very nice posts! I tried to post the below... but my email is not registered anymore. Can you post this on my behalf? "Sure very nice sales talk. :-) Although I truly prefer Informix for many reasons. This is my unbiased opinion. I support both Informix and Oracle. The main advantages of Oracle over Informix are the comprehensive set around it like enterprise console etc. Flash back database and point in time restores are also a big plus point over Informix. RMAN (Informix started with psm) Instance level and database level privileges/ role. However, High availability I think Informix excels over Oracle . Especially if you have to use RAC vs Informix cluster. Informix is a much smaller platform than Oracle. Oracle installations are big and heavy as all in compiled around big packages. Much simpler to support. (only one set of configuration) than pfile/database etc. Less resources needed. Less maintance needed. Oracle license more expensive. Benchmarking I believe Informix wins. (although I never saw any Official benchmarks). " In general Oracle have a much better marketing more oranisged portals. And very organised support bullets / documentation using OPN which IBM can work on! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Just one comment: I think that by "point in time restores" he means at the dbspace level. I've been visiting these partners/customer for the last two years and this is a recursive request. I explained why we don't do it: A database can have objects in any dbspace so we would risk logical corruption if we allowed that. Having said that, I think on this year's visit I'll have to describe a little bit a new feature called multi-tenancy... and what I think we will be able to do in the future with it :) Regards and thanks for the opinion. For the list, I will insist with him to make sure his user is reactivated (or the problem is solved). Regards. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Fernando Nunes <domusonline@gmail.com> wrote: > I suppose that by 3rd party it's assumed the Golden Gate product which has > been bought by Oracle (mainly due to the fact that their native table base > replication never won against this product). DG and RAC are extra cost on > top of the "enterprise" product, but that discussion always comes down to > $$$ and discounts so it's a never ending story. > But yes, once you buy Informix Enterprise Edition you can use all the > features apart Warehouse accelerator and storage optimization > (compression). > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:23 PM, BENJAMIN THOMPSON < > benjamin.thompson@bskyb.com> wrote: > > > Art, I hate to stick up for the other side, but I do like to stick to the > > technical facts. Are you aware of DataGuard? It's not a third party > > feature, > > doesn't require any specialist hardware, supports multiple targets and > > delayed > > apply. Infiniband is not required for RAC either, although it is > > recommended. > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > -- > Fernando Nunes > Portugal > > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com > My email works... but I don't check it frequently... > > --001a11c2d676c2cbbd05024fde07 > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently... --20cf303bf5761d5c2c050251df74

I will add one plus for Oracle, there are more people who know it. Poor = benighted souls. j. On Sep 5, 2014, at 9:59 AM, Fernando Nunes <domusonline@gmail.com> = wrote: > I just received an email from a partner in Europe. He asked me to post = it.=20 > Here it is:=20 >=20 >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----------------------------------------------=20 > Hi Fernando ,=20 >=20 > Very nice posts!=20 > I tried to post the below... but my email is not registered anymore.=20= > Can you post this on my behalf?=20 >=20 > "Sure very nice sales talk. :-)=20 > Although I truly prefer Informix for many reasons. This is my unbiased=20= > opinion.=20 >=20 > I support both Informix and Oracle.=20 >=20 > The main advantages of Oracle over Informix are the comprehensive set=20= > around it like enterprise console etc.=20 > Flash back database and point in time restores are also a big plus = point=20 > over Informix.=20 > RMAN (Informix started with psm)=20 > Instance level and database level privileges/ role.=20 > However,=20 >=20 > High availability I think Informix excels over Oracle . Especially if = you=20 > have to use RAC vs Informix cluster.=20 > Informix is a much smaller platform than Oracle. Oracle installations = are=20 > big and heavy as all in compiled around big packages.=20 > Much simpler to support. (only one set of configuration) than=20 > pfile/database etc.=20 > Less resources needed.=20 > Less maintance needed.=20 > Oracle license more expensive.=20 > Benchmarking I believe Informix wins. (although I never saw any = Official=20 > benchmarks).=20 > "=20 >=20 > In general Oracle have a much better marketing more oranisged portals.=20= > And very organised support bullets / documentation using OPN which IBM = can=20 > work on!=20 >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------=20 >=20 > Just one comment: I think that by "point in time restores" he means at = the=20 > dbspace level.=20 > I've been visiting these partners/customer for the last two years and = this=20 > is a recursive request. I explained why we don't do it: A database can = have=20 > objects in any dbspace so we would risk logical corruption if we = allowed=20 > that. Having said that, I think on this year's visit I'll have to = describe=20 > a little bit a new feature called multi-tenancy... and what I think we = will=20 > be able to do in the future with it :)=20 >=20 > Regards and thanks for the opinion.=20 > For the list, I will insist with him to make sure his user is = reactivated=20 > (or the problem is solved).=20 >=20 > Regards.=20 >=20 > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Fernando Nunes = <domusonline@gmail.com>=20 > wrote:=20 >=20 >> I suppose that by 3rd party it's assumed the Golden Gate product = which has=20 >> been bought by Oracle (mainly due to the fact that their native table = base=20 >> replication never won against this product). DG and RAC are extra = cost on=20 >> top of the "enterprise" product, but that discussion always comes = down to=20 >> $$$ and discounts so it's a never ending story.=20 >> But yes, once you buy Informix Enterprise Edition you can use all the=20= >> features apart Warehouse accelerator and storage optimization=20 >> (compression).=20 >>=20 >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:23 PM, BENJAMIN THOMPSON <=20 >> benjamin.thompson@bskyb.com> wrote:=20 >>=20 >>> Art, I hate to stick up for the other side, but I do like to stick = to the=20 >>> technical facts. Are you aware of DataGuard? It's not a third party=20= >>> feature,=20 >>> doesn't require any specialist hardware, supports multiple targets = and=20 >>> delayed=20 >>> apply. Infiniband is not required for RAC either, although it is=20 >>> recommended.=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 > = **************************************************************************= *****=20 >>> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.=20= >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> Fernando Nunes=20 >> Portugal=20 >>=20 >> http://informix-technology.blogspot.com=20 >> My email works... but I don't check it frequently...=20 >>=20 >> --001a11c2d676c2cbbd05024fde07=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 > = **************************************************************************= *****=20 >> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.=20= >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > Fernando Nunes=20 > Portugal=20 >=20 > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com=20 > My email works... but I don't check it frequently...=20 >=20 > --20cf303bf5761d5c2c050251df74=20 >=20 >=20 > = **************************************************************************= *****=20 > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.=20= >=20

Well, this just makes me angry. I don't know if I'm more angry at the oracle sales rep for spewing this FUD or angry at the fact that you had to come on here and ask us if it was bullshit or not. In addition to the fine points that everyone else has mentioned, I would also ask your oracle sales dude how often the Father of RAC and the World Wide Director of Oracle Development monitor and respond to the Oracle forums, because you got an immediate response from the IBM Informix equivalents along with some other very knowledgeable and helpful IBMers and Informix users. IBM does not have a road map for Informix - Please, at every IIUG conference there is a road map that shows plans for enhancement (not just simply supporting the existing stuff) well into the next decade. Did I mention that IIUG2015 will return to San Diego this year April 26 - 30? High availability is an issue for Informix - We've got examples of real Informix instances that have been up for over 1000 days continuously or systems that have been forgotten about since they just run and run and run and run forever without problems, "Oh, what's this server in this closet for? Nobody knows, it pre-dates anyone that works here, but we rebooted it once and our whole company went down so we just leave it on forever now." That server is probably running Informix. Add HDR/RSS/SDS/ER/Connection Manager to the equation and you've got a bullet proof HA solution for when some jackhole accidentally unplugs the wrong cable and causes a problem. Flip, do me a favor and kick this oracle guy in the balls the next time you see him. He would do the same to you when it comes time to renew your licenses. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 2:14 AM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660] Hi All, I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available 24/7. The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would consider moving to Oracle database" Please give me your comments on this statement. Thanks **************************************************************************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.

Hmm, Informix in 24x7, I cannot see a real problem if you do not do ugly things to the instances, see some samples below: IBM Informix Dynamic Server Version 11.70.FC5GE -- On-Line -- Up 586 days 10:40:07 -- 13760948 Kbytes IBM Informix Dynamic Server Version 11.70.FC5GE -- On-Line (Prim) -- Up 586 days 10:40:41 -- 7716960 Kbytes IBM Informix Dynamic Server Version 11.70.FC5GE -- On-Line -- Up 218 days 07:03:57 -- 9314420 Kbytes IBM Informix Dynamic Server Version 11.70.FC7GE -- On-Line -- Up 269 days 18:38:24 -- 10639440 Kbytes IBM Informix Dynamic Server Version 11.10.UC2E -- On-Line -- Up 84 days08:12:21 -- 1715488 Kbytes (had to reboot because of OS upgrade) IBM Informix Dynamic Server Version 11.70.FC4GE -- On-Line -- Up 858 days 02:17:47 -- 10685232 Kbytes (my favorite)and last but not least: Informix Dynamic Server 2000 Version 9.21.UC2 -- On-Line -- Up 402 days 07:59:23 -- 192512 Kbytes (SCO Open Server, yes it is still running) Sometimes HDR, sometimes standalone and (see last row) almost forgotten systems ... Marcus Haarmann ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----- Von: "Andrew Ford" <andrew@informix-dba.com> An: ids@iiug.org Gesendet: Freitag, 5. September 2014 17:20:38 Betreff: RE: Informix/Oracle [33699] Well, this just makes me angry. I don't know if I'm more angry at the oracle sales rep for spewing this FUD or angry at the fact that you had to come on here and ask us if it was bullshit or not. In addition to the fine points that everyone else has mentioned, I would also ask your oracle sales dude how often the Father of RAC and the World Wide Director of Oracle Development monitor and respond to the Oracle forums, because you got an immediate response from the IBM Informix equivalents along with some other very knowledgeable and helpful IBMers and Informix users. IBM does not have a road map for Informix - Please, at every IIUG conference there is a road map that shows plans for enhancement (not just simply supporting the existing stuff) well into the next decade. Did I mention that IIUG2015 will return to San Diego this year April 26 - 30? High availability is an issue for Informix - We've got examples of real Informix instances that have been up for over 1000 days continuously or systems that have been forgotten about since they just run and run and run and run forever without problems, "Oh, what's this server in this closet for? Nobody knows, it pre-dates anyone that works here, but we rebooted it once and our whole company went down so we just leave it on forever now." That server is probably running Informix. Add HDR/RSS/SDS/ER/Connection Manager to the equation and you've got a bullet proof HA solution for when some jackhole accidentally unplugs the wrong cable and causes a problem. Flip, do me a favor and kick this oracle guy in the balls the next time you see him. He would do the same to you when it comes time to renew your licenses. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 2:14 AM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660] Hi All, I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available 24/7. The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would consider moving to Oracle database" Please give me your comments on this statement. Thanks **************************************************************************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. ******************************************************************************* Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.

The Orifice guy should be boiled alive in his own vomit Paul Watson Oninit www.oninit.com +1 913 387 7529 > On Sep 5, 2014, at 10:20, "Andrew Ford" <andrew@informix-dba.com> wrote: > > Well, this just makes me angry. > > I don't know if I'm more angry at the oracle sales rep for spewing this FUD > or angry at the fact that you had to come on here and ask us if it was > bullshit or not. > > In addition to the fine points that everyone else has mentioned, I would > also ask your oracle sales dude how often the Father of RAC and the World > Wide Director of Oracle Development monitor and respond to the Oracle > forums, because you got an immediate response from the IBM Informix > equivalents along with some other very knowledgeable and helpful IBMers and > Informix users. > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix - Please, at every IIUG conference > there is a road map that shows plans for enhancement (not just simply > supporting the existing stuff) well into the next decade. Did I mention that > IIUG2015 will return to San Diego this year April 26 - 30? > > High availability is an issue for Informix - We've got examples of real > Informix instances that have been up for over 1000 days continuously or > systems that have been forgotten about since they just run and run and run > and run forever without problems, "Oh, what's this server in this closet > for? Nobody knows, it pre-dates anyone that works here, but we rebooted it > once and our whole company went down so we just leave it on forever now." > That server is probably running Informix. Add HDR/RSS/SDS/ER/Connection > Manager to the equation and you've got a bullet proof HA solution for when > some jackhole accidentally unplugs the wrong cable and causes a problem. > > Flip, do me a favor and kick this oracle guy in the balls the next time you > see him. He would do the same to you when it comes time to renew your > licenses. > > Andrew > > -----Original Message----- > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of FLIP > VAN WYNGAARDT > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 2:14 AM > To: ids@iiug.org > Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660] > > Hi All, > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > 24/7. > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would > consider moving to Oracle database" > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > Thanks > > **************************************************************************** > *** > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.

Another great feature of Informix: The kindness of it's users :) On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Paul Watson <paul@oninit.com> wrote: > The Orifice guy should be boiled alive in his own vomit > > Paul Watson > Oninit www.oninit.com > +1 913 387 7529 > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 10:20, "Andrew Ford" <andrew@informix-dba.com> wrote: > > > > Well, this just makes me angry. > > > > I don't know if I'm more angry at the oracle sales rep for spewing this > FUD > > or angry at the fact that you had to come on here and ask us if it was > > bullshit or not. > > > > In addition to the fine points that everyone else has mentioned, I would > > also ask your oracle sales dude how often the Father of RAC and the World > > Wide Director of Oracle Development monitor and respond to the Oracle > > forums, because you got an immediate response from the IBM Informix > > equivalents along with some other very knowledgeable and helpful IBMers > and > > Informix users. > > > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix - Please, at every IIUG > conference > > there is a road map that shows plans for enhancement (not just simply > > supporting the existing stuff) well into the next decade. Did I mention > that > > IIUG2015 will return to San Diego this year April 26 - 30? > > > > High availability is an issue for Informix - We've got examples of real > > Informix instances that have been up for over 1000 days continuously or > > systems that have been forgotten about since they just run and run and > run > > and run forever without problems, "Oh, what's this server in this closet > > for? Nobody knows, it pre-dates anyone that works here, but we rebooted > it > > once and our whole company went down so we just leave it on forever now." > > That server is probably running Informix. Add HDR/RSS/SDS/ER/Connection > > Manager to the equation and you've got a bullet proof HA solution for > when > > some jackhole accidentally unplugs the wrong cable and causes a problem. > > > > Flip, do me a favor and kick this oracle guy in the balls the next time > you > > see him. He would do the same to you when it comes time to renew your > > licenses. > > > > Andrew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of > FLIP > > VAN WYNGAARDT > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 2:14 AM > > To: ids@iiug.org > > Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660] > > > > Hi All, > > > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product > and > > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > > 24/7. > > > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would > > consider moving to Oracle database" > > > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > > > Thanks > > > > > **************************************************************************** > > *** > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently... --047d7b10c84739277b050253bd1a

I was being kind - I can think of a lot worse things - such as actually using Orifice > -----Original Message----- > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of > Fernando Nunes > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 11:13 AM > To: ids@iiug.org > Subject: Re: Informix/Oracle [33703] > > Another great feature of Informix: The kindness of it's users :) > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Paul Watson <paul@oninit.com> wrote: > > > The Orifice guy should be boiled alive in his own vomit > > > > Paul Watson > > Oninit www.oninit.com > > +1 913 387 7529 > > > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 10:20, "Andrew Ford" <andrew@informix-dba.com> > wrote: > > > > > > Well, this just makes me angry. > > > > > > I don't know if I'm more angry at the oracle sales rep for spewing this > > FUD > > > or angry at the fact that you had to come on here and ask us if it was > > > bullshit or not. > > > > > > In addition to the fine points that everyone else has mentioned, I would > > > also ask your oracle sales dude how often the Father of RAC and the > World > > > Wide Director of Oracle Development monitor and respond to the Oracle > > > forums, because you got an immediate response from the IBM Informix > > > equivalents along with some other very knowledgeable and helpful > IBMers > > and > > > Informix users. > > > > > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix - Please, at every IIUG > > conference > > > there is a road map that shows plans for enhancement (not just simply > > > supporting the existing stuff) well into the next decade. Did I mention > > that > > > IIUG2015 will return to San Diego this year April 26 - 30? > > > > > > High availability is an issue for Informix - We've got examples of real > > > Informix instances that have been up for over 1000 days continuously or > > > systems that have been forgotten about since they just run and run and > > run > > > and run forever without problems, "Oh, what's this server in this closet > > > for? Nobody knows, it pre-dates anyone that works here, but we > rebooted > > it > > > once and our whole company went down so we just leave it on forever > now." > > > That server is probably running Informix. Add > HDR/RSS/SDS/ER/Connection > > > Manager to the equation and you've got a bullet proof HA solution for > > when > > > some jackhole accidentally unplugs the wrong cable and causes a > problem. > > > > > > Flip, do me a favor and kick this oracle guy in the balls the next time > > you > > > see him. He would do the same to you when it comes time to renew your > > > licenses. > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of > > FLIP > > > VAN WYNGAARDT > > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 2:14 AM > > > To: ids@iiug.org > > > Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660] > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > > > > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > > > > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product > > and > > > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > > > > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the > > > Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available > > > 24/7. > > > > > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer > would > > > consider moving to Oracle database" > > > > > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************** > ****************** > > > *** > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************** > ********************* > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************** > ********************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > -- > Fernando Nunes > Portugal > > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com > My email works... but I don't check it frequently... > > --047d7b10c84739277b050253bd1a > > > ********************************************************** > ********************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.

Paging Obnoxio the Clown, Obnoxio your return to the Informix forums is needed immediately because they are becoming too civil. -----Original Message----- From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Fernando Nunes Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 11:13 AM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: Re: Informix/Oracle [33703] Another great feature of Informix: The kindness of it's users :) On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Paul Watson <paul@oninit.com> wrote: > The Orifice guy should be boiled alive in his own vomit > > Paul Watson > Oninit www.oninit.com > +1 913 387 7529 > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 10:20, "Andrew Ford" <andrew@informix-dba.com> wrote: > > > > Well, this just makes me angry. > > > > I don't know if I'm more angry at the oracle sales rep for spewing > > this > FUD > > or angry at the fact that you had to come on here and ask us if it > > was bullshit or not. > > > > In addition to the fine points that everyone else has mentioned, I > > would also ask your oracle sales dude how often the Father of RAC > > and the World Wide Director of Oracle Development monitor and > > respond to the Oracle forums, because you got an immediate response > > from the IBM Informix equivalents along with some other very > > knowledgeable and helpful IBMers > and > > Informix users. > > > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix - Please, at every IIUG > conference > > there is a road map that shows plans for enhancement (not just > > simply supporting the existing stuff) well into the next decade. Did > > I mention > that > > IIUG2015 will return to San Diego this year April 26 - 30? > > > > High availability is an issue for Informix - We've got examples of > > real Informix instances that have been up for over 1000 days > > continuously or systems that have been forgotten about since they > > just run and run and > run > > and run forever without problems, "Oh, what's this server in this > > closet for? Nobody knows, it pre-dates anyone that works here, but > > we rebooted > it > > once and our whole company went down so we just leave it on forever now." > > That server is probably running Informix. Add > > HDR/RSS/SDS/ER/Connection Manager to the equation and you've got a > > bullet proof HA solution for > when > > some jackhole accidentally unplugs the wrong cable and causes a problem. > > > > Flip, do me a favor and kick this oracle guy in the balls the next > > time > you > > see him. He would do the same to you when it comes time to renew > > your licenses. > > > > Andrew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf > > Of > FLIP > > VAN WYNGAARDT > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 2:14 AM > > To: ids@iiug.org > > Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660] > > > > Hi All, > > > > I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: > > > > "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: > > > > IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant > > product > and > > there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. > > > > High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards > > the Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it > > available 24/7. > > > > The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer > > would consider moving to Oracle database" > > > > Please give me your comments on this statement. > > > > Thanks > > > > > ********************************************************************** > ****** > > *** > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > > > **************************************************************************** *** > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > **************************************************************************** *** > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently... --047d7b10c84739277b050253bd1a **************************************************************************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.

Hi, even though many people already responded well, for anyone interested or in need of some material to set the record straight, I collected some slides and put them (somewhat off-topic) into "The IWA-Bolg": http://tinyurl.com/the-iwa-blog Or go directly to the blog entry at: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/community/blogs/2fa81a5c-cb30-4873-b775-13701 51e3614/entry/informix_roadmaps_and_availability?lang=en Have a nice weekend, Martin -- Martin Fuerderer IBM Informix Development Munich, Germany Information Management Read about the Informix Warehouse Accelerator: http://tinyurl.com/the-iwa-blog IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Martina Koederitz Board of Management: Dirk Wittkopp Corporate Seat: Boeblingen, Germany Reg.-Gericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 243294 From: "FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT" <flipv@raf.co.za> To: ids@iiug.org, Date: 09/05/2014 09:14 Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660] Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org Hi All, I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available 24/7. The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would consider moving to Oracle database" Please give me your comments on this statement. Thanks ******************************************************************************* Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.

For Dataguard you also have to distingush between a) normal DataGuard and b) Active DataGuard where the standy is accessible in readonly mode WHILST log redo is being applied. As per the Oracle Data Guard 11g Handbook 2009 ISBN 978-0-07-162111-3 Page 373 "Active Data Guard is a SEPERATELY LICENSED OPTION for Oracle ENTERPRISE Edition" As per http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/data/library/techarticle/dm-0801doe/ only Informix WORKGROUP Edition (not Advanced Workgroup Edition or Enterprise Edition) is required. "Informix Workgroup Edition supports up to two H/A cluster secondary nodes of any type.". I am not sure of the Oracle licensing for the 2nd Data Guard node however for Informix "As long as the secondary node is only functioning as a backup/failover secondary, it can be deployed without an additional Informix license charge.", You cannot get cheaper than free. Of course if the seconday node is read (or written - yes Informix supports redirected writes!) "However, if any H/A cluster secondary node is used for SQL operations (read or write), the secondary node must be fully licensed.". However there is no seperately licensed option for reading the secondary node. Regards, David. > On 05 September 2014 at 12:35 Fernando Nunes <domusonline@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I suppose that by 3rd party it's assumed the Golden Gate product which has > been bought by Oracle (mainly due to the fact that their native table base > replication never won against this product). DG and RAC are extra cost on > top of the "enterprise" product, but that discussion always comes down to > $$$ and discounts so it's a never ending story. > But yes, once you buy Informix Enterprise Edition you can use all the > features apart Warehouse accelerator and storage optimization (compression). > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:23 PM, BENJAMIN THOMPSON < > benjamin.thompson@bskyb.com> wrote: > > > Art, I hate to stick up for the other side, but I do like to stick to the > > technical facts. Are you aware of DataGuard? It's not a third party > > feature, > > doesn't require any specialist hardware, supports multiple targets and > > delayed > > apply. Infiniband is not required for RAC either, although it is > > recommended. > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************* > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > > > > > -- > Fernando Nunes > Portugal > > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com > My email works... but I don't check it frequently... > > --001a11c2d676c2cbbd05024fde07 > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. >

tgsc.localdomain pts/1 mr --> /home/john 376) onstat - IBM Informix Dynamic Server Version 11.70.UC4GE -- On-Line -- Up 735 days 04:39: 06 -- 1043692 Kbytes tgsc.localdomain pts/1 mr --> /home/john 377) 'nuff said -----Original Message----- From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Ford Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 11:21 AM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: RE: Informix/Oracle [33699] Well, this just makes me angry. I don't know if I'm more angry at the oracle sales rep for spewing this FUD or angry at the fact that you had to come on here and ask us if it was bullshit or not. In addition to the fine points that everyone else has mentioned, I would also ask your oracle sales dude how often the Father of RAC and the World Wide Director of Oracle Development monitor and respond to the Oracle forums, because you got an immediate response from the IBM Informix equivalents along with some other very knowledgeable and helpful IBMers and Informix users. IBM does not have a road map for Informix - Please, at every IIUG conference there is a road map that shows plans for enhancement (not just simply supporting the existing stuff) well into the next decade. Did I mention that IIUG2015 will return to San Diego this year April 26 - 30? High availability is an issue for Informix - We've got examples of real Informix instances that have been up for over 1000 days continuously or systems that have been forgotten about since they just run and run and run and run forever without problems, "Oh, what's this server in this closet for? Nobody knows, it pre-dates anyone that works here, but we rebooted it once and our whole company went down so we just leave it on forever now." That server is probably running Informix. Add HDR/RSS/SDS/ER/Connection Manager to the equation and you've got a bullet proof HA solution for when some jackhole accidentally unplugs the wrong cable and causes a problem. Flip, do me a favor and kick this oracle guy in the balls the next time you see him. He would do the same to you when it comes time to renew your licenses. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org> ids-bounces@iiug.org [ <mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org> mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 2:14 AM To: <mailto:ids@iiug.org> ids@iiug.org Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660] Hi All, I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available 24/7. The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would consider moving to Oracle database" Please give me your comments on this statement. Thanks ************************************************************ **************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. ************************************************************ ******************* Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.

In addition to what Marco wrote about Oracle being banished from GSA contracts, note the colossal failure of Oracle's attempt at implementing the Obamacare exchange for Oregon, wasting hundreds of millions of dollars on a completely useless system.

Flip, If you are a technical person, be warned, the Oracle sales person may be talking to you but Oracle would rather wine & dine your executives. They will offer amazing sounding deals like 80% off licensing costs, etc. Ask them to detail the actual costs after the 80% sweet deal expires. Oracle has great sales people, hard core sales people, they are bullies - they don't care about you, they care about the sale. In addition to this community, reach out to your IBM sales rep. If your IBM rep is too relaxed, go up the chain, get another one. They will help you fight. If your management is serious, suggest a comparison. Get Oracle & IBM involved, and if it fits, Microsoft too. If Oracle wants to wine & dine you, give IBM a chance. Request licensing costs (1,2,3 years out), and technical presentations, etc so you & your employer can make a fair comparison. I went through the experience in the not so recent past. It was a good experience. IBM won. Don't give up, and don't give in to that Oracle sales person's lies.

Hey Flip, any word back from your Oracle Sales Dude? I was just made aware of this DBTA article (full disclosure, I have yet to read it) but it may be worth sharing with him/her. http://www.dbta.com/DBTA-Downloads/WhitePapers/Comparing-IBM-Informix-and-Or acle-Database-for-High-Availability-and-Data-Replication-an-ITG-Manage-4751. aspx IBM Informix is the clear choice over Oracle Database for High Availability and Data Replication Organizations with requirements for data replication and high availability are frequently met with daunting costs, especially if they are considering Oracle database and RAC. They should be aware that there is an alternative. IBM Informix offers enterprise-class database availability in a significantly less complex, less expensive manner for both distributed and centralized deployments. This detailed analyst report by ITG compares capabilities and costs between Informix and Oracle databases and concludes "The capabilities of Informix 12 provide clear-cut value as an alternative to Oracle Database and RAC in distributed as well as centralized deployments Andrew -----Original Message----- From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of FLIP VAN WYNGAARDT Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 2:14 AM To: ids@iiug.org Subject: Informix/Oracle [33660] Hi All, I received the following comments from an Oracle Sales person: "Please note the below note to add in your motivation: IBM does not have a road map for Informix, making it a stagnant product and there is a possibility of little to zero support for Informix. High availability is an issue for Informix, therefore if RAF regards the Informix DB as mission critical then they might want to have it available 24/7. The abovementioned points are usually the reason why a customer would consider moving to Oracle database" Please give me your comments on this statement. Thanks **************************************************************************** *** Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.