Re: NewEra: Anyone using it?

Mike Segel <mikey@segel.NOSPAM-.KING.OF.MYDOMAIN.-NOSPAM.com> wrote: >David W Chan wrote: >> >> Mike Segel <mikey@segel.NOSPAM-.KING.OF.MYDOMAIN.-NOSPAM.com> wrote: >> >> >David W Chan wrote: >> > >> >> >- Overall experience >> >> >> >> Good language and the tools are improving. Lack of object >> >> partitioning means that partitioning is difficult. Lack of exception >> >> handling makes it hard to handle errors in a controlled way. >> >> >> >Gaff! >> >Good Language? >> >Not! >> >As far as C++ derived languages, Java has it beat hands down. >> >> I wouldn't go that far. The NewEra language is good. Java is better >> but it is not way ahead. >> >Yeah, it is. If you want to get down to the syntax of the >grammer, java is much cleaner. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one because that is a subjective remark. I am comfortable with both. >> Apart from the exception handling mentioned above, the only major >> difference is the support for interfaces. Java could do with some of >> the features found in NE such as handlers, parameter naming, automatic >> casting, and being able to return multiple parameters. >> >No, >See, that is the problem. The "handler" of Informix is full of >holes and poorly implemented. See the entire thread on ix_supertable >exception handling. The HANDLE keyword in NE is it's second most powerful statement. The thread you refer to above is nothing to do with handlers but with the Supertable which is just a big fat uncontrollable lasagna class. Handlers are very well implemented. They are strongly typed and can be dynamically reassigned. In fact, a handler can swap itself out in place of another while it is still executing. No other language comes close. Java 1.1 with it's inner classes and adapters comes closest but it is still comparatively messier. >The problem, which can not be fixed, is that all objects are tied >to their window. I mean that all objects are down the line from >the window in which they were instantiated. Are they? That's news to me. The last project we did, of the 500 or so classes, less than 100 were dependant on a window, and most of those were window sub-classes. >The concept of delagation is foreign and can't work within NE framework. >This is a limiting factor and causes exception errors. >I don't believe that there is the concept of an application object, >separate from a window? Is there? Delegation IS implemented in NE. They are called handlers. Handlers provide all the features of delegation and more because you can dynamically swap them in and out at run-time on a per-method basis. >Another problem is that to modify an existing object, you have >to subclass that object. So for every visual object you create, >you are subclassing that object, not just an instantiation of >that object. Most of the objects you draw on a window are not sub-classed. Only the window is subclassed and even then, this is done so that you can access the contained objects easily. You can just as well build an application without subclassing anything and just rely on your handlers. >> >For OO, look at smalltalk and Objective C. >> >> Is NewEra not OO? >> >Technically no. Informix has fudged the definition of OO to suit >their needs. I don't believe N.E. is polymorphic, supports multiple >inheritence, does it? NE is fully technically OO and very polymorphic. More so than C++. Basically, a NE object never forgets it's real class even if you reference it by a base class. There is no support for multiple inheritance and Java, smalltalk, and objective-c don't either. >Another thing to point out, is that some of the class hierarchy is >sloppy. For example, (If this still exists in 3.0), you have a button, >then a picture button. Why the two distinct object classes? >IMHO, it should be one class. Unless a graphic is specified, then >use the default square boundries and image. The functionality is the >same. Button and picture button are different classes in most environment so that's not a good example. I agree with you here in general. The VCL was pretty sloppy but the AFCL has to be the worst I have ever seen. David PS I am trying to get my ISP to block AGIS. >> >Just $.02 worth. >> >> >-Mikey >> >> David >> >-Mike >-- >#include <std_disclaimer.h> /* Mike Segel (MS385) */ >#include <No_Spam.h> >#ifdef OFFENDED_BY_CONTENT >The author takes no responsibility for this post. >Any resemblence to a coherent rational thought is purely coincidence. >-The Management. >#endif >***************************** >Due to AGIS's Refusal to Act Responsibly >We are blocking all of their domains at the packet level. >This block will exist until AGIS modifies their policies to >conform to existing RFCs and net community standards. >We encourage all ISPs and domain holders to do the same. >***************************** David W Chan GO5 Limited david@go5.com (work) dwc@cix.compulink.co.uk (home) David W Chan GO5 Limited david@go5.com (work) dwc@cix.compulink.co.uk (home)