Re: flagship sunk

Elan Le Blanc wrote: > Mark Townsend wrote: > >>This is IBM's data server strategy ? >>http://www-306.ibm.com/software/sw-bycategory/subcategory/SWB30.html ? > > > No. This is a list of products. > >>OK. Then we win. IBM has no focus. They have lost the plot. Your >>management could not even hope to keep the analysts awake explaining all >>this to them, let alone have them understand it all. The IBM field will >>not know what to sell, or worse still, sell against each other. >>Customers will simply be confused. > > > Perhaps you missed your companies purchase of TimesTen this year to > help you compete in the embedded space. > This is what IDS will compete with? So _that's_ the strategy! I hadn't realized that IDS was an in-memory database, until now. http://www.oracle.com/database/timesten.html So it all makes sense now. > IBM has a clear focus and has listened to our customers and business > partners regarding what their needs are. Yes, market DB2, make it the mainstay product, and placate the Informix base on the way out. Give them dribbles and scraps, and take their money, but expect this market to dwindle to nothing. Use their loyal fan base to cheerlead them on, and when it finally disappears, we have DB2. If we have to use IDS, have it positioned against a product that Oracle sells that isn't even like IDS. > Informix is alive and well and > uniquely suited for it's purpose and we are going to build on it's > strengths. The analysts thus far seem able to grasp what we are doing > and our customers certainly do. > What analysts? What press? What marketing program? > The sales teams know what to sell and how to do it. Yes. Evidenced by the huge increase of articles in the trades about Informix, right. > And they have been > doing it for the past year. This has been evidenced by a number of > things. We get quite a bit of play around Informix take-out offers on > Oracle.com, we get more air there than anywhere. Seems a waste of web > real estate if we are not causing someone worry. We had a number of > significant Oracle take-outs this year. One customer reports that > replacing their Oracle with IDS will save them $33M. > So why is this nowhere to be found except as a passing comment here? Where are the trial downloads for XPS? Why does DB2 have an unlimited trial and IDS has a 90-day trial? Why is DB2 at the top of the list? >>If your management truly believes this is a winning strategy then they >>need to be fired. Personally I don't believe that they are that stupid. >>Someone is getting their bell rung > Amen! > > Perhaps that is true. Have you been with the dark side so long that > you can no longer see a customer-centric winning strategy when you see > one? > Where is Phil White!! I know he would have fired you. > > Christine > > Christine Normile > IDS Channel Manager > IBM Information Management > It is truly amazing that people continue to be hired that have no clue what to do. Just one right after the next, no balls, no message, nothing but occasional whispers and gossip. And whimpers of competitive remarks here in a backwater usenet newsgroup. Pathetic.

Double Echo wrote: > Elan Le Blanc wrote: > >> Mark Townsend wrote: >> >>> This is IBM's data server strategy ? >>> http://www-306.ibm.com/software/sw-bycategory/subcategory/SWB30.html ? >> >> >> >> No. This is a list of products. >> >>> OK. Then we win. IBM has no focus. They have lost the plot. Your >>> management could not even hope to keep the analysts awake explaining all >>> this to them, let alone have them understand it all. The IBM field will >>> not know what to sell, or worse still, sell against each other. >>> Customers will simply be confused. >> >> >> >> Perhaps you missed your companies purchase of TimesTen this year to >> help you compete in the embedded space. >> > > > This is what IDS will compete with? So _that's_ the strategy! > > I hadn't realized that IDS was an in-memory database, until now. > > http://www.oracle.com/database/timesten.html > > So it all makes sense now. Double Echo, I think the point made is that apparently Oracle also realizes that one DBMS is not good enough to cover the whole market. Oracle has at least 4 DBMS: RDB, Times10, Oracle 10g and their mobile devices DBMS whichever it's name is (Oracle Light??). RDB may be the odd one out, but the others clearly cater to different markets. Kelloggs sells more than one kind of flakes, btw. They should fire all their squirrels... >> IBM has a clear focus and has listened to our customers and business >> partners regarding what their needs are. > Yes, market DB2, make it the mainstay product, and placate the Informix > base on the way out. Give them dribbles and scraps, and take their > money, but expect this market to dwindle to nothing. Use their loyal > fan base to cheerlead them on, and when it finally disappears, we have > DB2. If we have to use IDS, have it positioned against a product that > Oracle sells that isn't even like IDS. That wasn't the point. See above. > Where are the trial downloads for XPS? How does XPS now get into this? I thought the debate is about IDS. Do you use XPS? Are you requiring that IBM must put weight behind each and every Informix product to be considered serious about IDS? > Why does DB2 have an unlimited trial and IDS has a 90-day trial? DB2 has an unlimited trial? Are you sure about that? > Why is DB2 at the top of the list? It's called the alphabet... D before I, blame the Greeks, but not IBM. A word on strategy: Ask your boss to get an executive briefing from IBM. There is a reason why it's not called Data Mangement Software anymore. Take a look at IBM's acquisitions in the last 2 years. Ever heard of a company called SRD? IDS, DB2, Cloudscape... these are all just puzzle pieces in a much greater picture. If I were Mark T. I too would hope that the IBM executives get fired. Must be awful to see IBM lining up all the ducks while being stuck with a DBMS himself and seeing all the hard earned $ wasted in takeovers of app vendors. Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development DB2 UDB for Linux, Unix, Windows IBM Toronto Lab

Serge Rielau wrote: > Double Echo, I think the point made is that apparently Oracle also > realizes that one DBMS is not good enough to cover the whole market. > Oracle has at least 4 DBMS: RDB, Times10, Oracle 10g and their mobile > devices DBMS whichever it's name is (Oracle Light??). > RDB may be the odd one out, but the others clearly cater to different > markets. > The point is, IDS is _not_ a realtime database, nor is it an in-memory database. The closest thing to TimesTen would be MySQL's NDB database engine. Interesting that Oracle bought InnoDB, could be that we'll see NDB disappear too. That would be unfortunate, but the point is, IDS has little if anything in common with TimesTen. They are two different products. > Kelloggs sells more than one kind of flakes, btw. They should fire all > their squirrels... > >>> IBM has a clear focus and has listened to our customers and business >>> partners regarding what their needs are. >> >> Yes, market DB2, make it the mainstay product, and placate the Informix >> base on the way out. Give them dribbles and scraps, and take their >> money, but expect this market to dwindle to nothing. Use their loyal >> fan base to cheerlead them on, and when it finally disappears, we have >> DB2. If we have to use IDS, have it positioned against a product that >> Oracle sells that isn't even like IDS. > > That wasn't the point. See above. > >> Where are the trial downloads for XPS? > > How does XPS now get into this? I thought the debate is about IDS. The debate is about Informix products. XPS is an Informix product. There should be a trial download for ALL the products, just like the competition. > Do you use XPS? Have used it and maintained it in the past. > Are you requiring that IBM must put weight behind each > and every Informix product to be considered serious about IDS? > Yes. >> Why does DB2 have an unlimited trial and IDS has a 90-day trial? > > DB2 has an unlimited trial? Are you sure about that? > It doesn't time out like IDS does. >> Why is DB2 at the top of the list? > > It's called the alphabet... D before I, blame the Greeks, but not IBM. > And just what exactly do you know about marketing? > A word on strategy: > Ask your boss to get an executive briefing from IBM. A word about your lack of knowledge about strategy: Watch the competition. Do _at least_ the same thing they are doing. Informix is below the mark on this, anyone can see it. > There is a reason why it's not called Data Mangement Software anymore. > Take a look at IBM's acquisitions in the last 2 years. > Ever heard of a company called SRD? > > IDS, DB2, Cloudscape... these are all just puzzle pieces in a much > greater picture. Cloudscape is open source now, owned by Apache Group. > If I were Mark T. I too would hope that the IBM executives get fired. > Must be awful to see IBM lining up all the ducks while being stuck with > a DBMS himself and seeing all the hard earned $ wasted in takeovers of > app vendors. > > Cheers > Serge Yeah stick to what you know Serge, instead of trying to come up with catchy little statements. You're late to the party as far as Informix and don't qualify in my book with any skin in the game. It's easy for you to sit back and take pot shots because your money comes from DB2. The people here that put their skin in the game should be outraged that they have been given so little for so much of their dedication and loyalty. Most are too decent to say what they feel, but I can guarantee you they and their families (and mine) have had to pay for the sins of the idiots that have gone before. We have seen so many people at Informix wasting every opportunity to make something of the Informix brand. Using newsgroups and user groups is not enough, you have to give the product the whole spectrum of what marketing is all about. When I see your name associated with the marketing department then you will have something to say, until then stick to your SQL compiler, that's what you know best.

Double Echo wrote: > The point is, IDS is _not_ a realtime database, nor is it an in-memory > database. The closest thing to TimesTen would be MySQL's NDB database > engine. Interesting that Oracle bought InnoDB, could be that we'll see > NDB disappear too. That would be unfortunate, but the point is, IDS has > little if anything in common with TimesTen. They are two different > products. There you go dealing in reality again. As you have so accurately noted ... what we are getting from IBM is spin ... not reality. Invented words, no advertising campaign, and now trying to kludge it into a space where it clearly was not intended to compete. -- Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)