A European Technical Conference on Informix
Not a technical problem: this is a discussion about whether a dedicated European Informix technical conference is feasible. Malcolm Weallans lays out the obstacles — large upfront venue/hotel/speaker costs, a small audience facing high travel expense and hard-to-justify business value, and competition from the existing IIUG/IDUG event in Rome plus a rumoured IBM event in The Hague. The thread quickly degenerates into joking and insults; the only constructive reply suggests attending the IIUG/IDUG Rome conference and using IDUG's justification toolkit, or submitting a paper to get the fee waived. No decision to organise a European conference is reached.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
I think we should have a thread name that really reflects what we are talking about. As you are all probably aware I do have some experience in this area having been part of the UK User Group - which went bankrupt trying to organise such a conference - and having been associated with the IIUG for many years. During that time I have raised this issue myself many times and have experienced some of the challenges that you have to face in trying to organise such a conference. those challenges are:- 1. Costs There are significant upfront costs for the conference organisers. The meeting rooms have to paid for in advance, hotel rooms have to be reserved in advance, and speakers costs etc need to be paid. Without an organisation with some satsifactory credit rating or funds there is no way that the plans can be made. 2. The Audience How many people would actually attend a conference assuming that the costs were minimised? The answer is "very few". The reason is cost to the attendee. IDUG/IIUG conferences do not make money - they break even. IBM conferences do not make money - they break even at best. Ok it is possible to use lower grade hotels but anything that is close to an airport - a pre-requisite for an international conference - would be expensive. And my current employers would want to know what value I will get from the conference If I could prove that as a result of attending the conference we would make more money then I would probably be allowed to attend. But can anybody prove that attendance at a conference will be worthwhile. And in Europe flights and hotels are more expensive than they are in USA. I know we now have budget airlines and people can choose to stay at hotels outside the conference venues - but if people do that then it pushes up the costs for the conference accommodation. 3. The Competition IIUG/IDUG are putting on a conference in Rome. I hear through the grapevine that IBM are doing a conference in the Hague (can they really market anything?). I don't believe there is room for yet another conference. Just my 2 pennorth. Malcolm
Can't the five or six of you in Europe that use Informix just find a pub somewhere and have a meeting there? IBM would probably be able to pick up the tab and might even be willing to pay cab or train fare. Be sure to take some pix too. Our Perl user group meets regularly in a pub, with little talk about Perl unfortunately, but the gathering is probably more important than anything, and we have to pay our own way, but it is good fun. Our Informix user group used to meet regularly at restaurants and pubs too, but that ended years ago when Informix died a sudden and tragic death. They would put on presentations that we listened to whilst having a great time... back in the day... mweallans@panacea.co.uk wrote: > IIUG/IDUG are putting on a conference in Rome. I hear through the > grapevine that IBM are doing a conference in the Hague (can they really > market anything?). I don't believe there is room for yet another > conference. > > Just my 2 pennorth. > > Malcolm >
Double Echo said: > Can't the five or six of you in Europe that use Informix just find a pub > somewhere and have a meeting there? Yeah, 'cause Europe's a tiny place and we can all just hook up somewhere central. -- Bye now, Obnoxio Information within this post contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the S E C Act of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fact and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. The poster is not a reporting company registered under the Exchange Act of 1934. I have received a life peerage from Her Majesty, who is not an officer, minister or affiliate Labour party member. I intend to recover my loan now, which could cause the parliamentary majority to go down, resulting in losses for you. Today's Labour party has: an accumulated deficit and a reliance on loans from officers and affiliates to pay expenses. It is not an operating political party. The party is going to need financing to continue as a going concern. A failure to finance could cause the party to go out of business. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. You can lose all your money by investing in this party.
"Obnoxio The Clown" <obnoxio@serendipita.com> wrote in message news:mailman.273.1144411490.18205.informix-list@iiug.org... > > Double Echo said: >> Can't the five or six of you in Europe that use Informix just find a pub >> somewhere and have a meeting there? > > Yeah, 'cause Europe's a tiny place and we can all just hook up somewhere > central. Somewhere nice and cheap for all of us to fly to, like ..... Florida?!
> Somewhere nice and cheap for all of us to fly to, like ..... Florida?! It's cheaper to fly to Las Vegas...
Why is it when the European members of this list try to have a sensible conversation on an issue that is important to us we find people revert to making jokes. Is it any wonder that Informix died if all the users are so childish. I could point put that it is more expensice to fly to Las Vegas than Florida based on TCO. And if you don't understand the acronym ..... regards Malcolm
mweallans@panacea.co.uk wrote: > Why is it when the European members of this list try to have a sensible > conversation on an issue that is important to us we find people revert > to making jokes. Is it any wonder that Informix died if all the users > are so childish. > > I could point put that it is more expensice to fly to Las Vegas than > Florida based on TCO. And if you don't understand the acronym ..... > > regards > > Malcolm "find people revert to making jokes" Morons like Double Echo bring out the worst in some people I suppose. It is pathetic really. The whole 'my product is better than yours and your product is dying etc etc' stuff is just crass and boring. Sad little people with nothing better to do. Maybe its down to some insecurity about Oracle not being quite the quality Informix is...? I dunno, and don't really care, I use both and to be honest don't give a flying fuck about which one I have to work on, as long as some company keeps paying me to do so, which they do, very well in most cases in fact. Personally I'd rather be so rich so I wouldn't have to use either, but I'm not so hard luck eh? Informix and Oracle are just boring products to provide some of us an excuse for boring work. Still its better than a lot of jobs like sweeping the streets or joining the army or even serving burgers to fat people in McDonalds. Thats said some of the responses are amusing. Not by DE though, he's a cock.
> Still its better than a lot of jobs like sweeping the streets or joining the army or even serving burgers to fat people in McDonalds. HEY! I liked being in the Army! Explosive Ordnance Disposal, Baby!
mweallans@panacea.co.uk wrote: > Why is it when the European members of this list try to have a sensible > conversation on an issue that is important to us we find people revert > to making jokes. Is it any wonder that Informix died if all the users > are so childish. > I don't think the users were the ones responsible for Informix going belly up, I think it was the executive team of assholes that robbed the company blind, and then went off, like to Africa, to "find themselves", or other things, pocketing huge sums of cash never to be heard from again, and probably laughing about it today. But it is true that most of the traffic here is comedy, not a lot of serious talk--which I think is the way people prefer it, to just say silly things rather than anything of substance. That's not necessarily a bad thing ( as if my opinion matters here :o) just an observation on this group. > I could point put that it is more expensice to fly to Las Vegas than > Florida based on TCO. And if you don't understand the acronym ..... > Florida has casinos too, so you can tax your stupidity in a climate that is more than just dirt and rock like Las Vegas. > regards > > Malcolm >
theusarools@hotmail.co.uk wrote: > mweallans@panacea.co.uk wrote: >> Why is it when the European members of this list try to have a sensible >> conversation on an issue that is important to us we find people revert >> to making jokes. Is it any wonder that Informix died if all the users >> are so childish. >> >> I could point put that it is more expensice to fly to Las Vegas than >> Florida based on TCO. And if you don't understand the acronym ..... >> >> regards >> >> Malcolm > > "find people revert to making jokes" > > Morons like Double Echo bring out the worst in some people I suppose. It takes one to know one I guess. > It is pathetic really. Sorry to hear that. > The whole 'my product is better than yours and > your product is dying etc etc' stuff is just crass and boring. Sad > little people with nothing better to do. Maybe its down to some > insecurity about Oracle not being quite the quality Informix is...? I > dunno, and don't really care, I use both and to be honest don't give a > flying fuck about which one I have to work on, as long as some company > keeps paying me to do so, which they do, very well in most cases in > fact. Personally I'd rather be so rich so I wouldn't have to use > either, but I'm not so hard luck eh? Informix and Oracle are just > boring products to provide some of us an excuse for boring work. Still > its better than a lot of jobs like sweeping the streets or joining the > army or even serving burgers to fat people in McDonalds. > > Thats said some of the responses are amusing. Not by DE though, he's a > cock. > I'm sensing some anger. I don't remember doing some kind of product comparison between Informix and Oracle, so maybe you responded to the wrong posting--I've done it too. I simply pointed out that the handful of Informix people in Europe should get together, and have a meeting at a restaurant or pub, have some drinks and food, and enjoy the common bond of working on the same stuff. Our Perl group typically orders a big pile of spicy chicken wings, a lot of beer, and has a good time together. Sometimes we talk about Perl too. :o)
Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > Double Echo said: >> Can't the five or six of you in Europe that use Informix just find a pub >> somewhere and have a meeting there? > > Yeah, 'cause Europe's a tiny place and we can all just hook up somewhere > central. > Can't ya just catch a train and meet-up somewhere? Europe has so many cool ways to travel, it's really a lot fun by train. I'd love to be able to do that, we have to drive or fly everywhere. There's only a few trains in the US, and they go so slow as to not be worth it unless you have a lot of time on your hands. You could make it a promotional thing too, an "On the Road" promotional trip. You could put on your best clown suit and bright, red, shiny nose, and maybe do a tap dance, or juggle some balls or something--and if you do it on the train it might get some press. Don't forget to bring your organ grinder monkey with you. :o)
mweallans@panacea.co.uk said: > Is it any wonder that Informix died if all the users > are so childish. Ooh, hark at her! -- Bye now, Obnoxio Information within this post contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the S E C Act of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fact and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. The poster is not a reporting company registered under the Exchange Act of 1934. I have received a life peerage from Her Majesty, who is not an officer, minister or affiliate Labour party member. I intend to recover my loan now, which could cause the parliamentary majority to go down, resulting in losses for you. Today's Labour party has: an accumulated deficit and a reliance on loans from officers and affiliates to pay expenses. It is not an operating political party. The party is going to need financing to continue as a going concern. A failure to finance could cause the party to go out of business. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. You can lose all your money by investing in this party.
Double Echo said: > Obnoxio The Clown wrote: >> Double Echo said: >>> Can't the five or six of you in Europe that use Informix just find a >>> pub >>> somewhere and have a meeting there? >> >> Yeah, 'cause Europe's a tiny place and we can all just hook up somewhere >> central. >> > > Can't ya just catch a train and meet-up somewhere? Europe has so many > cool > ways to travel, it's really a lot fun by train. > > I'd love to be able to do that, we have to drive or fly everywhere. > There's > only a few trains in the US, and they go so slow as to not be worth it > unless > you have a lot of time on your hands. You could make it a promotional > thing > too, an "On the Road" promotional trip. Yeah, I've even got a cool name for it: we could call it the Infobahn. ;o) -- Bye now, Obnoxio Information within this post contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the S E C Act of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fact and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. The poster is not a reporting company registered under the Exchange Act of 1934. I have received a life peerage from Her Majesty, who is not an officer, minister or affiliate Labour party member. I intend to recover my loan now, which could cause the parliamentary majority to go down, resulting in losses for you. Today's Labour party has: an accumulated deficit and a reliance on loans from officers and affiliates to pay expenses. It is not an operating political party. The party is going to need financing to continue as a going concern. A failure to finance could cause the party to go out of business. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. You can lose all your money by investing in this party.
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 16:08, Double Echo wrote: > Our Perl group typically orders a big pile of spicy chicken wings, a > lot of beer, and has a good time together. Sometimes we talk about > Perl too. :o) Hmmm. I can't remember anyone talking about Perl TBH. /J\\ -- This e-mail is sponsored by http://www.integration-house.com/
Obnoxio The Clown wrote: too, an "On the Road" promotional trip. > > Yeah, I've even got a cool name for it: we could call it the Infobahn. ;o) > So what do you need with a conference then? Sounds to me like it would be more fun to meet at a restaurant or pub, and save your money.
in article 1144408458.440714.266480@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, mweallans@panacea.co.uk at mweallans@panacea.co.uk wrote on 4/7/06 4:14 AM: <snipped> > IIUG/IDUG are putting on a conference in Rome. I hear through the > grapevine that IBM are doing a conference in the Hague (can they really > market anything?). I don't believe there is room for yet another > conference. > I would strongly recommend that you all take a serious look at the IIUG/IDUG conference in Rome. Last year in Denver was very good Informix-wise, and I'm looking forward to Tampa in a few weeks. Regarding justification to your boss, the IDUG site has a "package" all put together for just that purpose. http://conferences.idug.org/na/WhyAttend/JustificationToolkit/tabid/233/Defa ult.aspx Although it looks like it is now too late for this year's conference in Rome, for next year's conference, many of you long-time Informixers should consider submitting a paper. If you get selected, your conference fee is waived. HTH, Paul Mosser
Double Echo said: > Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > too, an "On the Road" promotional trip. >> >> Yeah, I've even got a cool name for it: we could call it the Infobahn. >> ;o) >> > > So what do you need with a conference then? Sounds to me like it would be > more fun to meet at a restaurant or pub, and save your money. What makes you think a night at the pub would be any cheaper? -- Bye now, Obnoxio Information within this post contains forward looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the S E C Act of 1934. Statements that involve discussions with respect to projections of future events are not statements of historical fact and may be forward looking statements. Don't rely on them to make a decision. The poster is not a reporting company registered under the Exchange Act of 1934. I have received a life peerage from Her Majesty, who is not an officer, minister or affiliate Labour party member. I intend to recover my loan now, which could cause the parliamentary majority to go down, resulting in losses for you. Today's Labour party has: an accumulated deficit and a reliance on loans from officers and affiliates to pay expenses. It is not an operating political party. The party is going to need financing to continue as a going concern. A failure to finance could cause the party to go out of business. This report shall not be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. You can lose all your money by investing in this party.
Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > Double Echo said: >> Obnoxio The Clown wrote: >> too, an "On the Road" promotional trip. >>> Yeah, I've even got a cool name for it: we could call it the Infobahn. >>> ;o) >>> >> So what do you need with a conference then? Sounds to me like it would be >> more fun to meet at a restaurant or pub, and save your money. > > What makes you think a night at the pub would be any cheaper? > Well, you got me there. I imagine a big fella like yourself could probably require as much as 3x the intake of anyone else. Could get expensive. *<8o)