IDS 7.3x verse 9.2x

What are the advantages of switching from 7.3x to 9.2x under UNIX and also NT? What are the disadvantages if any? My understanding is that the annual costs of 9.2x will go up from 7.3x and if 7.3x continues to be supported why might a site switch. We have a number of customers running systems on 7.3x (both NT and UNIX) and I wanted to get some input to help them (our customers) understand their options. Thought I might throw this out here and see what answers I get. Thanks. Dave Bader

IDS 9.20 has quite an amount of extended functionality, but I guess you're implying that your clients won't be using these, initially at any rate. In answer to the question ".. why might a site switch?" In the experience of my client, the answer is because Informix wants you to. Therefore, if you play your cards right, you can get a good deal for the upgrading which makes it cost neutral, but gives the added benefits of IDS 9.20 should you wish to use them. Again, my experience of several UK sites is that Informix Sales, at least in the UK, have substantial discretion over licencing and support costs, that Informix have a general push on to move sites on to newer versions (presumably to cut their costs), and that as a result good deals are available. David Bader <baderd@home.com> wrote in message news:UfLH5.10460$d5.165732@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com... > What are the advantages of switching from 7.3x to 9.2x under UNIX and also > NT? What are the disadvantages if any? > > My understanding is that the annual costs of 9.2x will go up from 7.3x and > if 7.3x continues to be supported why might a site switch. We have a > number of customers running systems on 7.3x (both NT and UNIX) and I wanted > to get some input to help them (our customers) understand their options. > Thought I might throw this out here and see what answers I get. > > Thanks. > > Dave Bader > > >

You can upgrade free for the rest of the year. I believe 7.x pricing is being raised to parity with 9.x to provide further motivation next year. 9.2x was specifically intended to be a functional superset of 7.3x to minimize resistance to migrating. I'm told it's pretty uneventful. A quick search of deja.com should turn up any significant gotchas. Very little further development will be happening on 7.x. Only 7.31 is supported after 1/1/2001. I believe a number of performance enhancements are already in 9.2x were not implemented in 7.x. I'd be at least starting to test 9.x soon. greg David Bader wrote: > What are the advantages of switching from 7.3x to 9.2x under UNIX and also > NT? What are the disadvantages if any? > > My understanding is that the annual costs of 9.2x will go up from 7.3x and > if 7.3x continues to be supported why might a site switch. We have a > number of customers running systems on 7.3x (both NT and UNIX) and I wanted > to get some input to help them (our customers) understand their options. > Thought I might throw this out here and see what answers I get. > > Thanks. > > Dave Bader

Thanks for the info. We are testing it internally and as you indicate, pretty uneventful so far. Our application will most likely not take advantage of any of the 9.x enhancements. We are keeping it compatible with 7.x, no compelling reasons, that we have seen, from the application side, to use any of the enhancements. Our app is a NewEra client side Windows based application. The free upgrade is attractive, but if the support costs go up significantly, then that may be a problem for our customers. If there are significant performance, reliability or bug reasons for 9.2x then we can at least present the options to our customers and let them decide. If the 7.x support costs go up to be equal or close to the 9.x costs then I could see encouraging our customers to move to 9.x. Dave Greg <greg@fastlane.net> wrote in message news:868D544AD260EDA7.BD2718370DE072C4.841E6C1F2763633E@lp.airnews.net... > You can upgrade free for the rest of the year. I believe 7.x pricing is being > raised to parity with 9.x to provide further motivation next year. 9.2x was > specifically intended to be a functional superset of 7.3x to minimize > resistance to migrating. I'm told it's pretty uneventful. A quick search of > deja.com should turn up any significant gotchas. > > Very little further development will be happening on 7.x. Only 7.31 is > supported after 1/1/2001. I believe a number of performance enhancements are > already in 9.2x were not implemented in 7.x. I'd be at least starting to > test 9.x soon. > > greg > > David Bader wrote: > > > What are the advantages of switching from 7.3x to 9.2x under UNIX and also > > NT? What are the disadvantages if any? > > > > My understanding is that the annual costs of 9.2x will go up from 7.3x and > > if 7.3x continues to be supported why might a site switch. We have a > > number of customers running systems on 7.3x (both NT and UNIX) and I wanted > > to get some input to help them (our customers) understand their options. > > Thought I might throw this out here and see what answers I get. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Dave Bader >

You should be aware that, in some circumstances, the optimser behaves differently in v9.20 from v7.3. David Bader <baderd@home.com> wrote in message news:nI%H5.864$E85.17368@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com... > Thanks for the info. > > We are testing it internally and as you indicate, pretty uneventful so far. > Our application will most likely not take advantage of any of the 9.x > enhancements. We are keeping it compatible with 7.x, no compelling reasons, > that we have seen, from the application side, to use any of the > enhancements. Our app is a NewEra client side Windows based application. > > The free upgrade is attractive, but if the support costs go up > significantly, then that may be a problem for our customers. If there are > significant performance, reliability or bug reasons for 9.2x then we can at > least present the options to our customers and let them decide. If the 7.x > support costs go up to be equal or close to the 9.x costs then I could see > encouraging our customers to move to 9.x. > > > Dave > > Greg <greg@fastlane.net> wrote in message > news:868D544AD260EDA7.BD2718370DE072C4.841E6C1F2763633E@lp.airnews.net... > > You can upgrade free for the rest of the year. I believe 7.x pricing is > being > > raised to parity with 9.x to provide further motivation next year. 9.2x > was > > specifically intended to be a functional superset of 7.3x to minimize > > resistance to migrating. I'm told it's pretty uneventful. A quick search > of > > deja.com should turn up any significant gotchas. > > > > Very little further development will be happening on 7.x. Only 7.31 is > > supported after 1/1/2001. I believe a number of performance enhancements > are > > already in 9.2x were not implemented in 7.x. I'd be at least starting > to > > test 9.x soon. > > > > greg > > > > David Bader wrote: > > > > > What are the advantages of switching from 7.3x to 9.2x under UNIX and > also > > > NT? What are the disadvantages if any? > > > > > > My understanding is that the annual costs of 9.2x will go up from 7.3x > and > > > if 7.3x continues to be supported why might a site switch. We have a > > > number of customers running systems on 7.3x (both NT and UNIX) and I > wanted > > > to get some input to help them (our customers) understand their options. > > > Thought I might throw this out here and see what answers I get. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Dave Bader > > > >

When you say differently, do you mean that in a bad way? Is there a script for 9.x that creates the ideal update statistics script? I am aware of scripts for 7.x that build the update statistics, we have found that due to some optimizer bugs the resulting script may need adjusted. The optimizer also seems to work somewhat different for 7.3x on NT verse UNIX. Dave Neil Truby <ntruby@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message news:8sq3qh$kl3$1@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk... > You should be aware that, in some circumstances, the optimser behaves > differently in v9.20 from v7.3. > > David Bader <baderd@home.com> wrote in message > news:nI%H5.864$E85.17368@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com... > > Thanks for the info. > > > > We are testing it internally and as you indicate, pretty uneventful so > far. > > Our application will most likely not take advantage of any of the 9.x > > enhancements. We are keeping it compatible with 7.x, no compelling > reasons, > > that we have seen, from the application side, to use any of the > > enhancements. Our app is a NewEra client side Windows based application. > > > > The free upgrade is attractive, but if the support costs go up > > significantly, then that may be a problem for our customers. If there are > > significant performance, reliability or bug reasons for 9.2x then we can > at > > least present the options to our customers and let them decide. If the > 7.x > > support costs go up to be equal or close to the 9.x costs then I could see > > encouraging our customers to move to 9.x. > > > > > > Dave > > > > Greg <greg@fastlane.net> wrote in message > > news:868D544AD260EDA7.BD2718370DE072C4.841E6C1F2763633E@lp.airnews.net... > > > You can upgrade free for the rest of the year. I believe 7.x pricing is > > being > > > raised to parity with 9.x to provide further motivation next year. 9.2x > > was > > > specifically intended to be a functional superset of 7.3x to minimize > > > resistance to migrating. I'm told it's pretty uneventful. A quick > search > > of > > > deja.com should turn up any significant gotchas. > > > > > > Very little further development will be happening on 7.x. Only 7.31 is > > > supported after 1/1/2001. I believe a number of performance > enhancements > > are > > > already in 9.2x were not implemented in 7.x. I'd be at least starting > > to > > > test 9.x soon. > > > > > > greg > > > > > > David Bader wrote: > > > > > > > What are the advantages of switching from 7.3x to 9.2x under UNIX and > > also > > > > NT? What are the disadvantages if any? > > > > > > > > My understanding is that the annual costs of 9.2x will go up from 7.3x > > and > > > > if 7.3x continues to be supported why might a site switch. We have a > > > > number of customers running systems on 7.3x (both NT and UNIX) and I > > wanted > > > > to get some input to help them (our customers) understand their > options. > > > > Thought I might throw this out here and see what answers I get. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Dave Bader > > > > > > > > >

>> > When you say differently, do you mean that in a bad way? That's difficult to say. I noticed it because some queries that were hitherto fine suddenly ran poorly. Maybe some average ones were suddenly lightening-fast - but no-one complained about that! I was able to correct the problems by use of OPTCOMPIND initially, and a better solution was to adopt a different UPDATE STATISICS strategy (the one in the iiug archive developed and maintained by Art Kagel). There definitely are differences though, and Tech Support have advised me that some of these will be addressed in 9.3. I seem to remember reading a post, I think by Obnoxio the Barbarian, that the 9.20 optimiser is based on the 7.2x, rather than 7.3x one. David Bader <baderd@home.com> wrote in message news:sC0I5.944$E85.18950@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com... > When you say differently, do you mean that in a bad way? Is there a > script for 9.x that creates the ideal update statistics script? I am aware > of scripts for 7.x that build the update statistics, we have found that due > to some optimizer bugs the resulting script may need adjusted. The > optimizer also seems to work somewhat different for 7.3x on NT verse UNIX. > > Dave > > > Neil Truby <ntruby@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message > news:8sq3qh$kl3$1@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk... > > You should be aware that, in some circumstances, the optimser behaves > > differently in v9.20 from v7.3. > > > > David Bader <baderd@home.com> wrote in message > > news:nI%H5.864$E85.17368@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com... > > > Thanks for the info. > > > > > > We are testing it internally and as you indicate, pretty uneventful so > > far. > > > Our application will most likely not take advantage of any of the 9.x > > > enhancements. We are keeping it compatible with 7.x, no compelling > > reasons, > > > that we have seen, from the application side, to use any of the > > > enhancements. Our app is a NewEra client side Windows based > application. > > > > > > The free upgrade is attractive, but if the support costs go up > > > significantly, then that may be a problem for our customers. If there > are > > > significant performance, reliability or bug reasons for 9.2x then we can > > at > > > least present the options to our customers and let them decide. If the > > 7.x > > > support costs go up to be equal or close to the 9.x costs then I could > see > > > encouraging our customers to move to 9.x. > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > Greg <greg@fastlane.net> wrote in message > > > > news:868D544AD260EDA7.BD2718370DE072C4.841E6C1F2763633E@lp.airnews.net... > > > > You can upgrade free for the rest of the year. I believe 7.x pricing > is > > > being > > > > raised to parity with 9.x to provide further motivation next year. > 9.2x > > > was > > > > specifically intended to be a functional superset of 7.3x to minimize > > > > resistance to migrating. I'm told it's pretty uneventful. A quick > > search > > > of > > > > deja.com should turn up any significant gotchas. > > > > > > > > Very little further development will be happening on 7.x. Only 7.31 > is > > > > supported after 1/1/2001. I believe a number of performance > > enhancements > > > are > > > > already in 9.2x were not implemented in 7.x. I'd be at least > starting > > > to > > > > test 9.x soon. > > > > > > > > greg > > > > > > > > David Bader wrote: > > > > > > > > > What are the advantages of switching from 7.3x to 9.2x under UNIX > and > > > also > > > > > NT? What are the disadvantages if any? > > > > > > > > > > My understanding is that the annual costs of 9.2x will go up from > 7.3x > > > and > > > > > if 7.3x continues to be supported why might a site switch. We have > a > > > > > number of customers running systems on 7.3x (both NT and UNIX) and I > > > wanted > > > > > to get some input to help them (our customers) understand their > > options. > > > > > Thought I might throw this out here and see what answers I get. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > Dave Bader > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

That is good to know. Thanks. Neil Truby <ntruby@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message news:8srk8s$4mb$1@lyonesse.netcom.net.uk... > >> > When you say differently, do you mean that in a bad way? > > That's difficult to say. I noticed it because some queries that were > hitherto fine suddenly ran poorly. Maybe some average ones were suddenly > lightening-fast - but no-one complained about that! I was able to correct > the problems by use of OPTCOMPIND initially, and a better solution was to > adopt a different UPDATE STATISICS strategy (the one in the iiug archive > developed and maintained by Art Kagel). > > There definitely are differences though, and Tech Support have advised me > that some of these will be addressed in 9.3. > > I seem to remember reading a post, I think by Obnoxio the Barbarian, that > the 9.20 optimiser is based on the 7.2x, rather than 7.3x one. > > David Bader <baderd@home.com> wrote in message > news:sC0I5.944$E85.18950@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com... > > When you say differently, do you mean that in a bad way? Is there a > > script for 9.x that creates the ideal update statistics script? I am > aware > > of scripts for 7.x that build the update statistics, we have found that > due > > to some optimizer bugs the resulting script may need adjusted. The > > optimizer also seems to work somewhat different for 7.3x on NT verse UNIX. > > > > Dave > > > > > > Neil Truby <ntruby@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message > > news:8sq3qh$kl3$1@taliesin2.netcom.net.uk... > > > You should be aware that, in some circumstances, the optimser behaves > > > differently in v9.20 from v7.3. > > > > > > David Bader <baderd@home.com> wrote in message > > > news:nI%H5.864$E85.17368@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com... > > > > Thanks for the info. > > > > > > > > We are testing it internally and as you indicate, pretty uneventful so > > > far. > > > > Our application will most likely not take advantage of any of the 9.x > > > > enhancements. We are keeping it compatible with 7.x, no compelling > > > reasons, > > > > that we have seen, from the application side, to use any of the > > > > enhancements. Our app is a NewEra client side Windows based > > application. > > > > > > > > The free upgrade is attractive, but if the support costs go up > > > > significantly, then that may be a problem for our customers. If there > > are > > > > significant performance, reliability or bug reasons for 9.2x then we > can > > > at > > > > least present the options to our customers and let them decide. If > the > > > 7.x > > > > support costs go up to be equal or close to the 9.x costs then I could > > see > > > > encouraging our customers to move to 9.x. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > Greg <greg@fastlane.net> wrote in message > > > > > > news:868D544AD260EDA7.BD2718370DE072C4.841E6C1F2763633E@lp.airnews.net... > > > > > You can upgrade free for the rest of the year. I believe 7.x > pricing > > is > > > > being > > > > > raised to parity with 9.x to provide further motivation next year. > > 9.2x > > > > was > > > > > specifically intended to be a functional superset of 7.3x to > minimize > > > > > resistance to migrating. I'm told it's pretty uneventful. A quick > > > search > > > > of > > > > > deja.com should turn up any significant gotchas. > > > > > > > > > > Very little further development will be happening on 7.x. Only > 7.31 > > is > > > > > supported after 1/1/2001. I believe a number of performance > > > enhancements > > > > are > > > > > already in 9.2x were not implemented in 7.x. I'd be at least > > starting > > > > to > > > > > test 9.x soon. > > > > > > > > > > greg > > > > > > > > > > David Bader wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > What are the advantages of switching from 7.3x to 9.2x under UNIX > > and > > > > also > > > > > > NT? What are the disadvantages if any? > > > > > > > > > > > > My understanding is that the annual costs of 9.2x will go up from > > 7.3x > > > > and > > > > > > if 7.3x continues to be supported why might a site switch. We > have > > a > > > > > > number of customers running systems on 7.3x (both NT and UNIX) and > I > > > > wanted > > > > > > to get some input to help them (our customers) understand their > > > options. > > > > > > Thought I might throw this out here and see what answers I get. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Bader > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >