Re: Current Informix vs. Oracle Data

>Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:32:15 -0500 (EST) >From: Nick Nobbe <nnob@loc.gov> >To: Peter Ross <peterross@hotmail.com> >cc: informix-list@iiug.org >Subject: Re: Current Informix vs. Oracle Data > > Just to add my 2 cents worth. > No comments. > > This is all second hand, word of mouth info so take it "cum grano salis". > I was told that Oracle's replication was very slow and somewhat unreliable. > Surely they have remedied that by now, however, I marvel at the number of > people needed to maintain Oracle databases. I manage several several Informix > databases, SE and Online, by myself (and yes, with the grace of God and > the help of my friends on the Informix list). It would be great if my > division were staffed as well but then I'm not sure what we would do with > extra Dbas with nothing to do. > > I'm also told that Orcale's embedded Web procedures have a downside; it's > a bitch to rework them. > > In terms of database technology, I'd think IBM's Db2 is more of a threat > to Informix than the Orca. In terms marketing, the Orca has a distinct > lead. > > I guess you have to ask what you're getting for your dollar. > > Yours, > Nick > >On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Peter Ross wrote: > >> >> >> Obnoxio The Clown wrote: >> >> > >From: "Sean Kelsey" <chilliinc@hotmail.com> >> > >> > >Floodgates are open.... >> > >> > :-) >> > >> > [Lots of valid comments made, except the one about Oracle getting >> > better... :-] >> > >> > >-=Eclypse=- wrote in message ... >> > >>I'm looking for someone who can give some good input in the Informix >> > vs. >> > >>Oracle arena. Management is all up on Oracle because "everyone knows >> > how >> > >>to use Oracle and it's popular and try to find an Informix DBA - there >> > >>aren't any, but if you look up Oracle DBAs, they can be found easily." >> > >> > Two points from personal experience: >> > >> > 1. Bollocks -- not everyone knows how to use Oracle. You require far >> > more training to use Oracle than Informix. Even migrating from Informix >> > to Oracle is a pain in the bum. (More on this later) >> >> In my experience the migration to Oracle of a fairly large application >> (1,343,045 lines of 4GL code) and all the database has been fast and >> smooth. I used querix for this migration. >> >> >> > >> > >> > 2. You can find more Oracle DBAs because Oracle needs more DBAs. You can >> > administer IDS far more easily than Oracle. And just because they see >> > thousands of job ads for Oracle DBAs, doesn't mean they're out there. I >> > used to run a personnel agency, and it was just as difficult or more >> > difficult for us find Oracle DBAs. And Oracle people are more expensive. >> > >> > In Oracle's favour, and in management's defence, Oracle _*really*_ know >> > how to market to management. I would say they don't even bother to >> > market to techies. They make it far easier to sell Oracle than Informix. >> > >> > >>I really can't compare the two because I have never seen Oracle, never >> > >>used Oracle, and haven't seen any information on recent versions of >> > the >> > >>two RDBMS's that compares the two. My thought seems to be that it's >> > like >> > >>the VHS vs. Betamax deal - Beta (informix) was a much better format, >> > but >> > >>VHS (oracle) won anyway because more people used it. I like Informix, >> > it >> > >>has never given me any problems, it does everything we need, but the >> > new >> > >>app they want to develop is something they don't want to have to look >> > >>too hard to find a good DBA (or two) for and they think Oracle is the >> > way >> > >> > This sounds like a load of old cobblers to me. Chuck out your entire >> > database infrastructure because you can't find a DBA? Horse pucky. No, >> > in fact, let's rather ask: "Are they f***ing mad?" >> > >> > >>to go. The Oracle sales nazis have brainwashed them pretty good and >> > there's >> > >>nothing I can say to sway their opinions. Now the Oracle people have >> > >> > This is the core of your problem. Oracle make it look so appealing to >> > the business user. They hide the technical issues, and management >> > probably couldn't give a toss anyway. And they're actually being, um, a >> > bit naughty here. >> > >> > >offered >> > >>to swap out Informix for us and replace it with Oracle. My thing is >> > that >> > >>everything they've mentioned that Oracle is so great at, Informix will >> > do. >> > >> > Plus you have some expertise. Which will all be chucked down the toilet. >> >> Not your 4GL expertise or for that matter your SQL. >> >> > >> > >> > The only thing I can offer is that despite what the sales nazis may say, >> > and the fact that conceptually Oracle and Informix look so similar is >> > that physical implementation is substantially different. >> > >> > And although it sounds good (to a manager) to just swap out Informix for >> > Oracle, in reality, you'll have to stop all development on all systems >> > while you retrain everyone. Then you'll have a couple of months of >> > performance problems while you adapt to Oracle's optimisation strategy. >> > And even if you do find Oracle DBAs off the shelf, they won't know your >> > business for ages. >> > >> > There are also some interesting differences in Oracle, such as no serial >> > datatype. There is a workaround, but you have to manually recode each >> > serial field. So all your programmers will need retraining, your support >> > staff, any existing DBAs. There will be a massive code change exercise. >> > Believe me. >> >> True but you don't have to do anything with regards to serial types if you >> use querix, it is all done for you. In fact we only had to make changes in >> about 1 % of our code and not all the line, but for example replacing >> MATCHES in an SQL statement to LIKE. >> >> No comments about the rest, some like pepsi and son Coca-Cola. >> >> >> > >> > >> > >>Their thing is, where do we find people who know Informix? I would >> > just >> > >>like somewhere to look for information to hand them that will get them >> > >>to consider something else. Any help/information is appreciated... >> > >> > Ask Informix for help. I haven't seen the original post, so I don't know >> > where you are, but Informix should be able to help you. >> > >> > But in the main, you need to advise management that swapping out >> > Informix for Oracle will cause _at_least_ six months of disruption and >> > require *massive* retraining and reskilling. There may well be some >> > systems which can't be ported for various reasons, leading to a need for >> > different database teams. Every single data access statement in all your >> > applications will have to be checked for the subtle differences. >> > >> > Reports which used to run in minutes could take hours until you figure@@N