SIS: Talk about a shift in partners...
Not a technical support thread — it's an off-topic industry/marketing discussion (flagged SIS). Gumby cites a Register article about the Sun–Oracle partnership souring and Oracle steering customers to IBM hardware, speculating this sidelines IDS and asking why IBM won't publish TPC benchmarks for it. Replies argue he's misreading the article (it concerns middleware, not databases), note Oracle has in fact been certifying PeopleSoft on IDS 11.x, and dispute how IBM client reps behave. It degenerates into insults; no technical problem or resolution.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
Hopefully most of you read El Reg. Saw this little gem last night as I was waiting for the test guy to approve my script.... Check out: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/21/sun_oracle_middleware_offer/ In a nut shell, Sun and Oracle are falling out of bed. The beneficiary is IBM's hardware. So where does that leave IDS? I mean heck. Maybe that's why IBM won't do a TPC-E benchmark or a TPC- C benchmark using IDS? Are they afraid of publishing results that blow away the competition? (Yeah, I believe that IDS is *that* good.) I guess if an Oracle rep brings IBM to the party, then it would be impolite to mention IBM's *other* database. (you know IDS, but don't tell anyone....) And of course, when there's the obligatory "payback", do you think the client rep will mention Oracle, or DB2. (One would hope IDS, but alas, *how many client reps know IDS exists*?) 8^0 Oh well, its an interesting article. Now only had Sun come to its senses 8 years ago and took up PG's offer. ;-) -G
Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > Hopefully most of you read El Reg. > Saw this little gem last night as I was waiting for the test guy to > approve my script.... > > Check out: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/21/sun_oracle_middleware_offer/ > > In a nut shell, Sun and Oracle are falling out of bed. The beneficiary > is IBM's hardware. > > So where does that leave IDS? > Reading is FUNDAMENTAL: "The company is offering WebLogic or Oracle Fusion customers free adaptors to Sun's Java CAPS 6.0 platform. The suite features an enterprise service bus (ESB), event processor, business process management and master data management. As ever, the package features Sun's GlassFish application server and NetBeans integrated development environment (IDE)." I'm really not sure what this has to do with IDS. Sun isn't even trying to flog MySQL to Oracle > I guess if an Oracle rep brings IBM to the party, then it would be > impolite to mention IBM's *other* database. (you know IDS, but don't > tell anyone....) I thought the beneficiary was IBM's hardware. Last time I looked, both DB2 and IDS were software. What have I misread? -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com
dunno who's in bed with who but... Oracle has done a great job of in recent months certifying IDS with PeopleSoft. Oracle plans to certify FIN 9.0 on IDS 11.1 in the next couple of months and IDS 11.5 by the end of the year. These IDS / PS certifications have generally been a major pain in the rear in recent years. Not too tuff anymore. Hats off to Oracle and IBM. Now that CSDK stuff on the other hand.... --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Ian Michael Gumby <im_gumby@hotmail.com> wrote: > From: Ian Michael Gumby <im_gumby@hotmail.com> > Subject: SIS: Talk about a shift in partners... > To: informix-list@iiug.org > Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:06 AM > Hopefully most of you read El Reg. > Saw this little gem last night as I was waiting for the > test guy to > approve my script.... > > Check out: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/21/sun_oracle_middleware_offer/ > > In a nut shell, Sun and Oracle are falling out of bed. The > beneficiary > is IBM's hardware. > > So where does that leave IDS? > > I mean heck. Maybe that's why IBM won't do a TPC-E > benchmark or a TPC- > C benchmark using IDS? > Are they afraid of publishing results that blow away the > competition? > (Yeah, I believe that IDS is *that* good.) > > I guess if an Oracle rep brings IBM to the party, then it > would be > impolite to mention IBM's *other* database. (you know > IDS, but don't > tell anyone....) > > And of course, when there's the obligatory > "payback", do you think the > client rep will mention Oracle, or DB2. > (One would hope IDS, but alas, *how many client reps know > IDS > exists*?) 8^0 > > Oh well, its an interesting article. Now only had Sun come > to its > senses 8 years ago and took up PG's offer. ;-) > > -G > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
On Aug 22, 9:17 am, Obnoxio The Clown <obno...@serendipita.com> wrote: > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: [SNIP] > > Reading is FUNDAMENTAL: > [SNIP] > > I'm really not sure what this has to do with IDS. Sun isn't even trying > to flog MySQL to Oracle > > > I guess if an Oracle rep brings IBM to the party, then it would be > > impolite to mention IBM's *other* database. (you know IDS, but don't > > tell anyone....) > > I thought the beneficiary was IBM's hardware. Last time I looked, both > DB2 and IDS were software. What have I misread? > > -- Yes, Reading is Fundamental. But so too is cognitive thought... ;-) Lets see what the article says: "What is certain is the fact that Sun's offer marks the latest low point in a partnership between two companies that promised in January 2006 to work together for another 10 years. Since then, Oracle has brushed off Sun's claim it was using NetBeans and has been slowly driving customers to IBM, while Sun has entered the database market by purchasing Oracle's database challenger MySQL.® " -=- That the point. What you may have missed is that IBM sales teams are lead by Client Reps. These sales critters are responsible for all IBM sales to customers. So to them if selling Oracle means making a IGS/BCS win and hardware win, they'd as soon as flog Oracle, than DB2. (I'd mention IDS, but how many Client Reps know what IDS is?) The point is that if an Oracle sales rep is pushing their customers towards IBM hardware, in a 'quid pro quo' world, IBM reps will bring the Oracle rep in to their deals. But in order to see this point, you'd have to 1) Read the article, and 2) Understand the mind of a sales critter and the rules that they live by. And of course the other point... Why didn't Sun see the writing on the wall 9 years ago and purchase Informix? Oh what a much happier world this would have been. ;-) -G
On Aug 22, 10:31 am, Jerry Hamilton <bigdaddyje...@yahoo.com> wrote: > dunno who's in bed with who but... > > Oracle has done a great job of in recent months certifying IDS with PeopleSoft. > > Oracle plans to certify FIN 9.0 on IDS 11.1 in the next couple of months and IDS 11.5 by the end of the year. > > These IDS / PS certifications have generally been a major pain in the rear in recent years. Not too tuff anymore. > > Hats off to Oracle and IBM. > Funny, but one has to ask... supporting IDS keeps current PeopleSoft customers happy. But how many Oracle PeopleSoft reps promote IDS as the platform of choice?
Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > On Aug 22, 9:17 am, Obnoxio The Clown <obno...@serendipita.com> wrote: > >> Ian Michael Gumby wrote: >> > [SNIP] > >> Reading is FUNDAMENTAL: >> >> > [SNIP] > >> I'm really not sure what this has to do with IDS. Sun isn't even trying >> to flog MySQL to Oracle >> >> >>> I guess if an Oracle rep brings IBM to the party, then it would be >>> impolite to mention IBM's *other* database. (you know IDS, but don't >>> tell anyone....) >>> >> I thought the beneficiary was IBM's hardware. Last time I looked, both >> DB2 and IDS were software. What have I misread? >> >> -- >> > Yes, > > Reading is Fundamental. > > But so too is cognitive thought... ;-) > > Lets see what the article says: > > "What is certain is the fact that Sun's offer marks the latest low > point in a partnership between two companies that promised in January > 2006 to work together for another 10 years. > > Since then, Oracle has brushed off Sun's claim it was using NetBeans > and has been slowly driving customers to IBM, while Sun has entered > the database market by purchasing Oracle's database challenger MySQL.® > " > -=- > That the point. > What you may have missed is that IBM sales teams are lead by Client > Reps. These sales critters are responsible for all IBM sales to > customers. So to them if selling Oracle means making a IGS/BCS win and > hardware win, they'd as soon as flog Oracle, than DB2. (I'd mention > IDS, but how many Client Reps know what IDS is?) > > All of them. But the client rep isn't going to mention it, because it's going to lead to a smaller deal for IGS/BCS. > The point is that if an Oracle sales rep is pushing their customers > towards IBM hardware, in a 'quid pro quo' world, IBM reps will bring > the Oracle rep in to their deals. > > IBM hardware reps will ALWAYS bring Oracle into their deals. I've seen benchmarks showing that Oracle can require anything from 25% more hardware to 1000% more hardware to achieve the same sort of numbers that Informix can. > But in order to see this point, you'd have to 1) Read the article, and > 2) Understand the mind of a sales critter and the rules that they live > by. > What do you think an IBM hardware salesman is motivated by? > And of course the other point... Why didn't Sun see the writing on the > wall 9 years ago and purchase Informix? Oh what a much happier world > this would have been. ;-) > Yeah, 'cause Sun are even better at making money off software than IBM are, aren't they? -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com
Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > On Aug 22, 10:31 am, Jerry Hamilton <bigdaddyje...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> dunno who's in bed with who but... >> >> Oracle has done a great job of in recent months certifying IDS with PeopleSoft. >> >> Oracle plans to certify FIN 9.0 on IDS 11.1 in the next couple of months and IDS 11.5 by the end of the year. >> >> These IDS / PS certifications have generally been a major pain in the rear in recent years. Not too tuff anymore. >> >> Hats off to Oracle and IBM. >> >> > > Funny, but one has to ask... supporting IDS keeps current PeopleSoft > customers happy. > But how many Oracle PeopleSoft reps promote IDS as the platform of > choice? > > Those selfish Oracle cunts, eh? Imagine if Informix owned PeopleSoft and someone on CDOS asked "how many Informix PeopleSoft reps promote Oracle as the platform of choice?" You'd laugh them out of the building. Here's a half-full glass of water, Gumby. Look at it and tell me what you see. What's that you say? It's half-empty? Jesus, get a fucking grip. They're not promoting DB2 or MySQL either, you know. -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com
On Aug 22, 1:59 pm, Obnoxio The Clown <obno...@serendipita.com> wrote: > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > On Aug 22, 10:31 am, Jerry Hamilton <bigdaddyje...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >> dunno who's in bed with who but... > > >> Oracle has done a great job of in recent months certifying IDS with PeopleSoft. > > >> Oracle plans to certify FIN 9.0 on IDS 11.1 in the next couple of months and IDS 11.5 by the end of the year. > > >> These IDS / PS certifications have generally been a major pain in the rear in recent years. Not too tuff anymore. > > >> Hats off to Oracle and IBM. > > > Funny, but one has to ask... supporting IDS keeps current PeopleSoft > > customers happy. > > But how many Oracle PeopleSoft reps promote IDS as the platform of > > choice? > > Those selfish Oracle cunts, eh? Imagine if Informix owned PeopleSoft and > someone on CDOS asked "how many Informix PeopleSoft reps promote Oracle > as the platform of choice?" You'd laugh them out of the building. > > Here's a half-full glass of water, Gumby. Look at it and tell me what > you see. What's that you say? It's half-empty? > > Jesus, get a fucking grip. They're not promoting DB2 or MySQL either, > you know. > > -- > Cheers, > Obnoxio the Clown > > http://obotheclown.blogspot.com Being a relative newbie to this newsgroup, my impression is that Gumby has always "had a grip"...just not on anything of substantial substance or SIZE. (Wonder what he does with his OTHER hand and 3 fingers)...does anyone wonder if Gumball has any clients? He writes so much out here that one would wonder. Splintter - Informix-from-Oracle transplantee