Re: As the markets tank... Some Benchmark Stuff to distract you from the collapse...

Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > DA Morgan wrote: >> Obnoxio The Clown wrote: >> >> >>> Actually, I think you're being a little unfair. In a nutshell, the >>> real problem is that the government on the one hand pushed >>> legislation that encouraged sub-prime mortgages with federal >>> guarantees on one hand which conflicted with a normally risk-averse >>> market on the other. >>> >> >> Government may have taken an action that enabled what has happened. But >> government, at least American government, did not do this in a vacuum. >> The government took action because specific individuals decided to pay >> hired guns, we politely call them lobbyists, to advocate these actions. >> >> What you might wish to recall is that a couple of hundred years ago, >> December 16, 1773 to be exact, we on this side of the pond demonstrated >> our love of king and corporations in Boston harbour. >> >> Glad to see c.d.i. has a new lease on life discussing the rise and fall >> of republican democracy. >> > > It's perfectly rational to indulge in rent-seeking if it is a more > cost-effective way of making money. The problem is entirely that the > government allows such rent-seeking. > > It's also important to understand that regulation rarely benefits the > market, in general it benefits the incumbent corporations because they > already have the infrastructure to deal with the regulations and don't > need to add it to their start-up costs. > Regulation by its very definition is a throttle on the market, similar in many ways to how one manages databases--is that a nice stretch or what. :-) But without some kind of regulation even the most capitalistic money grubbing financier cannot manage their risk. Every poker table has a problem without rules. When the rules are broken and nothing is done there are problems. What we witnessed what a financing scheme that took advantage of a lot of people playing in a game without clearly defined rules. The idea that I'm going to yet again finance somebody who isn't going to ever be called a loser disturbs me. When I lose a game, I take it like a man and accept my loss. These clowns ( no offense to you :o) decided like any compulsive gambler that they needed one more chance to make it right. I'm not a Vegas gambler but even I know when to fold'em. It's over and despite my own family taking a hit for something we had nothing to do with, I'd rather the market now correct its loss on its own without the government basically endorsing bad behavior from a bunch of compulsive gamblers. Let's face it, Wall Street is a lightly regulated form of gambling. Folks doubled-down, said hit me, and they lost. I don't feel sorry for any of them, but at the same time I'd rather the market accept the loss--this was the game and the game has rules. Somebody had to eventually lose the game. I find it troubling that Congress doesn't want anyone to lose, that the problem is that the rules need changing. Again, wrong answer. > And finally, you overblown corporate lobbyist, CDI doesn't have a new > lease of life. It's just an interesting diversion that we can afford to > have because we don't have to spend our days picking up the shit of the > company you're shilling for. > Bartender! Another pint over here!

InDeep wrote: > What we witnessed what a financing scheme that took advantage of a lot of > people playing in a game without clearly defined rules. Au contraire. There are a zillion rules. And most of them are individually pretty clear. The problem is that they're needlessly complex and burdensome because the government keeps on responding to everything with nitpicky, particular regulation creating an overall bloody mess. And speaking of games and rules, this made me laugh: http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2008/09/what_warren_buf.html -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> What we witnessed what a financing scheme that took advantage of a lot of >> people playing in a game without clearly defined rules. > > Au contraire. There are a zillion rules. And most of them are > individually pretty clear. The problem is that they're needlessly > complex and burdensome because the government keeps on responding to > everything with nitpicky, particular regulation creating an overall > bloody mess. > > And speaking of games and rules, this made me laugh: > http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2008/09/what_warren_buf.html > I'm not sure I'll ever understand this problem as well as you or others but the idea that I have to cough up money for a government that basically treats the individual taxpayer as part of a gigantic ATM machine with endless pockets of money is insane. Congress, Wall Street, all these people that are above it all, change the game to suit the people with the most money. It's not rocket science. There seemed to be plenty enough clear rules for a long time, then mysteriously all of a sudden during GWBushes' reign we have a completely unbalanced budget, runaway spending, needless war in Iraq, broken infrastructure, jobs being literally exported, a crumbling civil engineering infrastructure that cannot keep up with even staying ahead of some third world countries, and an educational system that is falling behind the rest of the world at a pace that we will soon be third world. I am at a complete loss to understand this problem other than a majority of people in this country have no capacity to understand this logically, thanks to the crumbling education system, they want to see it through religion and sound bites. The greedy bastards running our government and country into ruin are doing it by taking advantage of the mass stupidity and fast-food thinking this country seems to want, doing it by the numbers, and playing it just like the oil companies, push a little into the consumer, and see how much they can take, then back off. Push again next time a little more, and get more. We are beyond the "fool me twice" lyric, we really do deserve from this point forward, complete collapse and an end to the insanity. I'm for states rights, to hell with the Fed, I'd rather we have 50 countries now, and let's sort it out without the Fed. We're better off without them. We got 200 years out of this experiment, I say we fall back to last-man-standing, and forget the Fed. States that want to be backward, let them be backward, states that want to and can be progressive, they shouldn't be punished by the tyranny of Wall Street and Washington DC dragging us into the abyss.

Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> Obnoxio The Clown wrote: >> >>> InDeep wrote: >>> >>>> What we witnessed what a financing scheme that took advantage of a >>>> lot of >>>> people playing in a game without clearly defined rules. >>> Au contraire. There are a zillion rules. And most of them are >>> individually pretty clear. The problem is that they're needlessly >>> complex and burdensome because the government keeps on responding to >>> everything with nitpicky, particular regulation creating an overall >>> bloody mess. >>> >>> And speaking of games and rules, this made me laugh: >>> http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2008/09/what_warren_buf.html >>> >>> >> >> I'm not sure I'll ever understand this problem as well as you or others >> but the idea that I have to cough up money for a government that >> basically treats the individual taxpayer as part of a gigantic ATM >> machine with endless pockets of money is insane. >> > > Agreed. >> Congress, Wall Street, all these people that are above it all, change >> the game to suit the people with the most money. It's not rocket >> science. There seemed to be plenty enough clear rules for a long time, >> then mysteriously all of a sudden during GWBushes' reign we have a >> completely unbalanced budget, runaway spending, needless war in Iraq, >> broken infrastructure, jobs being literally exported, a crumbling civil >> engineering infrastructure that cannot keep up with even staying ahead >> of some third world countries, and an educational system that is falling >> behind the rest of the world at a pace that we will soon be third world. >> > I'm just being pedantic. But part of the problem is that if you (and > other voters) don't take the time to understand what the problem is, > then your cries that "something must be done" result in a > carefully-phrased-to-make-it-sound-good actions that either just > perpetuate the problem or make it worse. It's proof that marketing and sound bites work. There is a market for everything, and McCain still has a fighting, albeit weak, chance. To your point, we will never know the extent of the problem to the degree we need to _right now_, but over time we'll see that the sky is not falling, that this is GWBushes' last stand, complete with his round table of robber barons. It has been _the_ most awful 8 years of a US president that I can remember. And even more depressing is knowing that a large percentage of the US population actually voted not once but twice for this fucking retard we have for a president. Now here we are 8 years into fool-me-twice-shame-on-me and there are voters who are actually going to allow more of the same, and even more troubling, are you ready? PEOPLE THAT ARE UNDECIDED. FUCK. How can you be undecided? Absolutely baffling. Religion, marketing, sound bites, fast-food, this is our shit-for-brains populace. There should be not only voter registration, but voter qualification and certification. It works like this, if you don't understand the choice you should not be allowed to vote. >> I am at a complete loss to understand this problem other than a majority >> of people in this country have no capacity to understand this logically, >> thanks to the crumbling education system, they want to see it through >> religion and sound bites. The greedy bastards running our government >> and country into ruin are doing it by taking advantage of the mass >> stupidity and fast-food thinking this country seems to want, doing it by >> the numbers, and playing it just like the oil companies, push a little >> into the consumer, and see how much they can take, then back off. Push >> again next time a little more, and get more. We are beyond the "fool me >> twice" lyric, we really do deserve from this point forward, complete >> collapse and an end to the insanity. I'm for states rights, to hell >> with the Fed, I'd rather we have 50 countries now, and let's sort it out >> without the Fed. We're better off without them. We got 200 years out >> of this experiment, I say we fall back to last-man-standing, and forget >> the Fed. States that want to be backward, let them be backward, states >> that want to and can be progressive, they shouldn't be punished by the >> tyranny of Wall Street and Washington DC dragging us into the abyss. >> > The problem is that sometimes the solution is worse than the problem. :o) > > We've heard nothing yet... ( from Apollo 13... )

InDeep wrote: > Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > >> InDeep wrote: >> >>> What we witnessed what a financing scheme that took advantage of a lot of >>> people playing in a game without clearly defined rules. >>> >> Au contraire. There are a zillion rules. And most of them are >> individually pretty clear. The problem is that they're needlessly >> complex and burdensome because the government keeps on responding to >> everything with nitpicky, particular regulation creating an overall >> bloody mess. >> >> And speaking of games and rules, this made me laugh: >> http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2008/09/what_warren_buf.html >> >> > > I'm not sure I'll ever understand this problem as well as you or others > but the idea that I have to cough up money for a government that > basically treats the individual taxpayer as part of a gigantic ATM > machine with endless pockets of money is insane. > Agreed. > Congress, Wall Street, all these people that are above it all, change > the game to suit the people with the most money. It's not rocket > science. There seemed to be plenty enough clear rules for a long time, > then mysteriously all of a sudden during GWBushes' reign we have a > completely unbalanced budget, runaway spending, needless war in Iraq, > broken infrastructure, jobs being literally exported, a crumbling civil > engineering infrastructure that cannot keep up with even staying ahead > of some third world countries, and an educational system that is falling > behind the rest of the world at a pace that we will soon be third world. > I'm just being pedantic. But part of the problem is that if you (and other voters) don't take the time to understand what the problem is, then your cries that "something must be done" result in a carefully-phrased-to-make-it-sound-good actions that either just perpetuate the problem or make it worse. > I am at a complete loss to understand this problem other than a majority > of people in this country have no capacity to understand this logically, > thanks to the crumbling education system, they want to see it through > religion and sound bites. The greedy bastards running our government > and country into ruin are doing it by taking advantage of the mass > stupidity and fast-food thinking this country seems to want, doing it by > the numbers, and playing it just like the oil companies, push a little > into the consumer, and see how much they can take, then back off. Push > again next time a little more, and get more. We are beyond the "fool me > twice" lyric, we really do deserve from this point forward, complete > collapse and an end to the insanity. I'm for states rights, to hell > with the Fed, I'd rather we have 50 countries now, and let's sort it out > without the Fed. We're better off without them. We got 200 years out > of this experiment, I say we fall back to last-man-standing, and forget > the Fed. States that want to be backward, let them be backward, states > that want to and can be progressive, they shouldn't be punished by the > tyranny of Wall Street and Washington DC dragging us into the abyss. > The problem is that sometimes the solution is worse than the problem. :o) -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

InDeep wrote: > It's proof that marketing and sound bites work. There is a market for > everything, and McCain still has a fighting, albeit weak, chance. > > To your point, we will never know the extent of the problem to the > degree we need to _right now_, but over time we'll see that the sky is > not falling, that this is GWBushes' last stand, complete with his round > table of robber barons. It has been _the_ most awful 8 years of a US > president that I can remember. And even more depressing is knowing that > a large percentage of the US population actually voted not once but > twice for this fucking retard we have for a president. Now here we are > 8 years into fool-me-twice-shame-on-me and there are voters who are > actually going to allow more of the same, and even more troubling, are > you ready? PEOPLE THAT ARE UNDECIDED. FUCK. How can you be undecided? > Absolutely baffling. Religion, marketing, sound bites, fast-food, this > is our shit-for-brains populace. There should be not only voter > registration, but voter qualification and certification. It works like > this, if you don't understand the choice you should not be allowed to vote. > You have a different situation in the US, because the states have some actual power. Be grateful for that. Can you imagine what an almighty clusterfuck it is when local "authorities" have no power and it's *all* in the federal government's hands? -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

On Oct 1, 6:02 pm, Obnoxio The Clown <obno...@serendipita.com> wrote: > InDeep wrote: > > It's proof that marketing and sound bites work.  There is a market for > > everything, and McCain still has a fighting, albeit weak, chance. > > > To your point, we will never know the extent of the problem to the > > degree we need to _right now_, but over time we'll see that the sky is > > not falling, that this is GWBushes' last stand, complete with his round > > table of robber barons.  It has been _the_ most awful 8 years of a US > > president that I can remember.  And even more depressing is knowing that > > a large percentage of the US population actually voted not once but > > twice for this fucking retard we have for a president.  Now here we are > > 8 years into fool-me-twice-shame-on-me and there are voters who are > > actually going to allow more of the same, and even more troubling, are > > you ready? PEOPLE THAT ARE UNDECIDED. FUCK.  How can you be undecided? > > Absolutely baffling.  Religion, marketing, sound bites, fast-food, this > > is our shit-for-brains populace.   There should be not only voter > > registration, but voter qualification and certification.  It works like > > this, if you don't understand the choice you should not be allowed to vote. > > You have a different situation in the US, because the states have some > actual power. Be grateful for that. Can you imagine what an almighty > clusterfuck it is when local "authorities" have no power and it's *all* > in the federal government's hands? > > -- > Cheers, > Obnoxio the Clown > > http://obotheclown.blogspot.com There's always somewhere in the world where things are worse. South Africa? Zimbabwe? Somalia (Ok pretty much most of Africa is screwed up). Georgia? (You choose between the State having a drought, or the country dealing with bears. ;-) I think that the only good thing to come out of the UK is some of its comedy. (Young Ones, Black Adder, Monty Python, Red Dwarf, Absolutely Fabulous ...) And probably more to OTC's liking ... Grahm Norton. (However you spell his name) :-P Of course Paul would remind us about the Beatles, Rolling Stones, and the Sex Pistols. ;-) -G

Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > On Oct 1, 6:02 pm, Obnoxio The Clown <obno...@serendipita.com> wrote: > >> InDeep wrote: >> >>> It's proof that marketing and sound bites work. There is a market for >>> everything, and McCain still has a fighting, albeit weak, chance. >>> >>> To your point, we will never know the extent of the problem to the >>> degree we need to _right now_, but over time we'll see that the sky is >>> not falling, that this is GWBushes' last stand, complete with his round >>> table of robber barons. It has been _the_ most awful 8 years of a US >>> president that I can remember. And even more depressing is knowing that >>> a large percentage of the US population actually voted not once but >>> twice for this fucking retard we have for a president. Now here we are >>> 8 years into fool-me-twice-shame-on-me and there are voters who are >>> actually going to allow more of the same, and even more troubling, are >>> you ready? PEOPLE THAT ARE UNDECIDED. FUCK. How can you be undecided? >>> Absolutely baffling. Religion, marketing, sound bites, fast-food, this >>> is our shit-for-brains populace. There should be not only voter >>> registration, but voter qualification and certification. It works like >>> this, if you don't understand the choice you should not be allowed to vote. >>> >> You have a different situation in the US, because the states have some >> actual power. Be grateful for that. Can you imagine what an almighty >> clusterfuck it is when local "authorities" have no power and it's *all* >> in the federal government's hands? >> >> -- >> Cheers, >> Obnoxio the Clown >> >> http://obotheclown.blogspot.com >> > > There's always somewhere in the world where things are worse. > South Africa? Zimbabwe? Somalia (Ok pretty much most of Africa is > screwed up). Georgia? (You choose between the State having a drought, > or the country dealing with bears. ;-) > > I think that the only good thing to come out of the UK is some of its > comedy. (Young Ones, Black Adder, Monty Python, Red Dwarf, Absolutely > Fabulous ...) > And probably more to OTC's liking ... Grahm Norton. (However you spell > his name) :-P > > :o? > Of course Paul would remind us about the Beatles, Rolling Stones, and > the Sex Pistols. ;-) > Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd? -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> What we witnessed what a financing scheme that took advantage of a lot of >> people playing in a game without clearly defined rules. > > Au contraire. There are a zillion rules. And most of them are > individually pretty clear. The problem is that they're needlessly > complex and burdensome because the government keeps on responding to > everything with nitpicky, particular regulation creating an overall > bloody mess. > > And speaking of games and rules, this made me laugh: > http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2008/09/what_warren_buf.html ROFLOL! The rules may be needlessly complex but they are hardly burdensome. Last year my company paid more taxes on profits than Cisco. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/10/09/MN3707.DTL The rules are written by corporate lobbyists on bhalf of their clients. The complexity is designed to keep small to medium sized companies from competing ... because we do have to pay taxes. I don't know what you're being fed but it isn't seasoned with reality. Daniel Morgan