Re: An Oracle question
Not a technical support thread but an Oracle-vs-Informix advocacy argument. A poster (Nikita) claimed Informix has little presence in Silicon Valley, citing job-board counts and a lack of Informix books in a large bookstore; Informix regulars (Mark Stock, Art Kagel) countered with lower admin overhead, Oracle itself using Informix, and Kagel's experience across many RDBMSs, while blaming Informix's marketing rather than Oracle's technology. Jeremy Nelson noted Informix books are available at other stores, and one reply disputed Kagel's remark that Ingres was dead. Nikita ended up having to administer Informix for an app anyway. No technical problem or resolution is recorded.
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Nikita wrote: > > Okay, Okay I was just trying to get people going, and I guess it worked.. > Now, I must say I disagree with your below statements tho, because I surely > don't see companies using Informix. I live in the heart of the Silicon > Valley, > and there surely aren't any companies using Informix out here...at least > very few are. Oh I thought there was a small one, called Oracle or something, using Informix for their tech support call logging system, or have they given that up now? If they have, they won't need the call logging system any more. :-) > You go to a site such as Dice.com, and do a search for > Informix vs. Oracle in Northern CA and you tell me who has the market share > :-)). (uh, 1,500 jobs for Informix, 13,000 for Oracle). 1500 seems to be a lot of no companies. I thought the ratio of required effort to administer an Oracle database versus Informix was 5:1, but maybe it's gone up a bit. > Does that mean it will always be that way? Probably not. I'm sure Oracle will come out with a new version some day. > Maybe DB2 will make a comeback, so whose to say. Some people consider DB2 to be technically superior to Informix now, but I'm sure you know best. ;-) > Honestly tho, I can't say I know Informix well enough to make a judgement, > so I'll lay off on that one until I know better. Okay, that sounds best. :-O Cheers, -- Mark. +----------------------------------------------------------+-----------+ | Mark D. Stock mailto:mdstock@mydas.freeserve.co.uk |//////// /| | http://www.informix.com http://www.informixhandbook.com |///// / //| | http://www.iiug.org +-----------------------------------+//// / ///| | |What year 2000 bug? year 2000 bug? |/// / ////| | |year 2000 bug? year 2000 bug? year |// / /////| | |2000 bug? year 2000 bug? year 1900 |/ ////////| +----------------------+-----------------------------------+-----------+
"Mark D. Stock" wrote: > Nikita wrote: > > > > Okay, Okay I was just trying to get people going, and I guess it worked.. > > Now, I must say I disagree with your below statements tho, because I surely > > don't see companies using Informix. I live in the heart of the Silicon > > Valley, > > and there surely aren't any companies using Informix out here...at least > > very few are. > > Oh I thought there was a small one, called Oracle or something, using > Informix for their tech support call logging system, or have they given > that up now? If they have, they won't need the call logging system any > more. :-) > > > You go to a site such as Dice.com, and do a search for > > Informix vs. Oracle in Northern CA and you tell me who has the market share > > :-)). (uh, 1,500 jobs for Informix, 13,000 for Oracle). > > 1500 seems to be a lot of no companies. I thought the ratio of required > effort to administer an Oracle database versus Informix was 5:1, but > maybe it's gone up a bit. Complexity, customizability and scalibilty reasons...and the fact that it's Enterprise level applications that are typically running on it.(notice I say "typically", as it mostly depends on what the company feels wll meet the requirements. > > > > Does that mean it will always be that way? > > Probably not. I'm sure Oracle will come out with a new version some day. You don't consider 8i to be a "new" version? You honestly should check it out, it's very cool! > > > > Maybe DB2 will make a comeback, so whose to say. > > Some people consider DB2 to be technically superior to Informix now Could be very true, maybe I'll download a copy :-00 > , but > I'm sure you know best. ;-) Hey, I never said that. ;-). I'm just expressing my views, as you guys were when you slammed Oracle, which prompted me to post in the first place. I have noticed that people tend to "muddy the leader" if they feel threatened. When I've seen people posting on other database newsgroups with questions about using other vendor's products, the responses aren't like I have seen here in the Informix group (and I just started poking around here) -- they are typically answered in a professional manner - not slamming that product at all. I would hope for the same from here....not a response of well, switch to Informix because that other db is a piece of crap kind of answer. Just my .02 cents > > > > Honestly tho, I can't say I know Informix well enough to make a judgement, > > so I'll lay off on that one until I know better. > > Okay, that sounds best. :-O Yep, I deserved that one :-)) > > > Cheers, > -- > Mark. > > +----------------------------------------------------------+-----------+ > | Mark D. Stock mailto:mdstock@mydas.freeserve.co.uk |//////// /| > | http://www.informix.com http://www.informixhandbook.com |///// / //| > | http://www.iiug.org +-----------------------------------+//// / ///| > | |What year 2000 bug? year 2000 bug? |/// / ////| > | |year 2000 bug? year 2000 bug? year |// / /////| > | |2000 bug? year 2000 bug? year 1900 |/ ////////| > +----------------------+-----------------------------------+-----------+
Nikita wrote: > > "Mark D. Stock" wrote: > > > Nikita wrote: >[SNIP] > > Hey, I never said that. ;-). I'm just expressing my views, as you guys were when > you slammed Oracle, which > prompted me to post in the first place. > I have noticed that people tend to "muddy the leader" if they feel threatened. > When I've seen people posting on other database newsgroups with questions about > using other vendor's products, the responses aren't like I have seen here in the > Informix group (and I just started poking around here) -- they are typically > answered in a professional manner - not slamming that product at all. I would > hope for the same from here....not a response of well, switch to Informix because > that other db is a piece of crap kind of answer. > Just my .02 cents [SNIP] We don't slam Oracle out of frustration that it is such a superior product to the one we all know and love. It is really out of frustration at Informix for not being able to get the market coverage and name saturation for what we all feel is a clearly superior product. We're just taking it out on Oracle because we got tired of beating our brows against the walls in Menlo Park. Art S. Kagel
l feel is a clearly superior product. We're just taking it out on Oracle because we got tired of beating our brows against the walls in Menlo Park. Ah, so you were all once Oracle DBA's and have now "seen the light" and gone with Informix? ;-) "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > Nikita wrote: > > > > "Mark D. Stock" wrote: > > > > > Nikita wrote: > >[SNIP] > > > > Hey, I never said that. ;-). I'm just expressing my views, as you guys were when > > you slammed Oracle, which > > prompted me to post in the first place. > > I have noticed that people tend to "muddy the leader" if they feel threatened. > > When I've seen people posting on other database newsgroups with questions about > > using other vendor's products, the responses aren't like I have seen here in the > > Informix group (and I just started poking around here) -- they are typically > > answered in a professional manner - not slamming that product at all. I would > > hope for the same from here....not a response of well, switch to Informix because > > that other db is a piece of crap kind of answer. > > Just my .02 cents > [SNIP] > > We don't slam Oracle out of frustration that it is such a superior product > to the one we all know and love. It is really out of frustration at > Informix for not being able to get the market coverage and name saturation > for what we al > > Art S. Kagel
And I remember Informix getting quite a bit of name recognition within the past year or so. :-) "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > Nikita wrote: > > > > "Mark D. Stock" wrote: > > > > > Nikita wrote: > >[SNIP] > > > > Hey, I never said that. ;-). I'm just expressing my views, as you guys were when > > you slammed Oracle, which > > prompted me to post in the first place. > > I have noticed that people tend to "muddy the leader" if they feel threatened. > > When I've seen people posting on other database newsgroups with questions about > > using other vendor's products, the responses aren't like I have seen here in the > > Informix group (and I just started poking around here) -- they are typically > > answered in a professional manner - not slamming that product at all. I would > > hope for the same from here....not a response of well, switch to Informix because > > that other db is a piece of crap kind of answer. > > Just my .02 cents > [SNIP] > > We don't slam Oracle out of frustration that it is such a superior product > to the one we all know and love. It is really out of frustration at > Informix for not being able to get the market coverage and name saturation > for what we all feel is a clearly superior product. We're just taking it > out on Oracle because we got tired of beating our brows against the walls > in Menlo Park. > > Art S. Kagel
Oh my, I hate to have to tell you guys this....but just got back from a VERY LARGE bookstore, and they didn't have one book on Informix. Of course when walking by the magazine section what did I see on the cover of Business Week magazine??? You guessed it... "Oracle is Cool Again" with a big fat picture of Larry himself.... the article talked about Oracle LEADING the coolness revolution of Databases. "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > Nikita wrote: > > > > "Mark D. Stock" wrote: > > > > > Nikita wrote: > >[SNIP] > > > > Hey, I never said that. ;-). I'm just expressing my views, as you guys were when > > you slammed Oracle, which > > prompted me to post in the first place. > > I have noticed that people tend to "muddy the leader" if they feel threatened. > > When I've seen people posting on other database newsgroups with questions about > > using other vendor's products, the responses aren't like I have seen here in the > > Informix group (and I just started poking around here) -- they are typically > > answered in a professional manner - not slamming that product at all. I would > > hope for the same from here....not a response of well, switch to Informix because > > that other db is a piece of crap kind of answer. > > Just my .02 cents > [SNIP] > > We don't slam Oracle out of frustration that it is such a superior product > to the one we all know and love. It is really out of frustration at > Informix for not being able to get the market coverage and name saturation > for what we all feel is a clearly superior product. We're just taking it > out on Oracle because we got tired of beating our brows against the walls > in Menlo Park. > > Art S. Kagel
Nikita <Nikita@yahoo.com> wrote: >Oh my, I hate to have to tell you guys this....but just got back from a >VERY LARGE bookstore, and they didn't have one book on Informix. You need to find a new VERY LARGE bookstore. The borders closest to where I work has quite a few books on informix (several dozen or so). Granted, there are several hundred books on oracle, but there certainly is plenty of available material for informix out there. -hop -- jfn@enteract.com Four Lines Suffice.
Jeremy, thanks I had already planned to look around. Probably check Computer Literacy. In case anybody even cares, yes I am being *forced* <G> to administer an Informix database for an application that only will run on Informix . Weird, but that's okay. I like to start off on the right foot with a newsgroup :-)) (Hey, at least I know to go get a book before posting stupid questions). Jeremy Nelson wrote: > Nikita <Nikita@yahoo.com> wrote: > >Oh my, I hate to have to tell you guys this....but just got back from a > >VERY LARGE bookstore, and they didn't have one book on Informix. > > You need to find a new VERY LARGE bookstore. The borders closest to > where I work has quite a few books on informix (several dozen or so). > Granted, there are several hundred books on oracle, but there certainly > is plenty of available material for informix out there. > > -hop > -- > jfn@enteract.com > Four > Lines > Suffice.
Nikita wrote: > > l feel is a clearly superior product. We're just taking it > out on Oracle because we got tired of beating our brows against the walls > in Menlo Park. > > Ah, so you were all once Oracle DBA's and have now "seen the light" and gone with > Informix? ;-) I've used them all and served as DBA for all of the servers you would consider major and a few you would not: Oracle, Informix, Ingres (before it died), Sybase, Solid, Yard, System 1022, dbase (OK it's not a server), etc. I started using Informix in over 17 years ago after evaluating ALL of the databases then available for my employer's consulting firm to use as a development platform for client projects. I fell in love with Informix then and still like it. At that time, however, Ingres had the clearly superior database technology (Informix was just SE servers then) but no good development tools and their own query language (QUEL) which was not SQL when it was already clear that IBM and Oracle would be able to foist SQL on us all, though QUEL was the better query language for RDBMS. Over the years I have used each of the above in production, testing, evaluation and benchmark situations and while I have been forced to use one or another by unenlightened non-techical management, I have always found Informix the clear technical and/or development winner. BTW I still say I have NEVER met a DBA who has worked extensively with both Oracle and Informix who does not prefer Informix. Art S. Kagel > "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > > > Nikita wrote: > > > > > > "Mark D. Stock" wrote: > > > > > > > Nikita wrote: > > >[SNIP] > > > > > > Hey, I never said that. ;-). I'm just expressing my views, as you guys were when > > > you slammed Oracle, which > > > prompted me to post in the first place. > > > I have noticed that people tend to "muddy the leader" if they feel threatened. > > > When I've seen people posting on other database newsgroups with questions about > > > using other vendor's products, the responses aren't like I have seen here in the > > > Informix group (and I just started poking around here) -- they are typically > > > answered in a professional manner - not slamming that product at all. I would > > > hope for the same from here....not a response of well, switch to Informix because > > > that other db is a piece of crap kind of answer. > > > Just my .02 cents > > [SNIP] > > > > We don't slam Oracle out of frustration that it is such a superior product > > to the one we all know and love. It is really out of frustration at > > Informix for not being able to get the market coverage and name saturation > > for what we al > > > > Art S. Kagel
Naw, post all the stupid questions you want. It is only the really obvious ones that anyone should think to look in the manual that will not get an answer. It is actually very rare here to get an RTFM reply that does not also contain the answer to the question. Art S. Kagel Nikita wrote: > > Jeremy, thanks I had already planned to look around. Probably check > Computer Literacy. > In case anybody even cares, yes I am being *forced* <G> to administer an > Informix database for an application that only > will run on Informix . Weird, but that's okay. > I like to start off on the right foot with a newsgroup :-)) (Hey, at least > I know to go get a book before posting stupid questions). > > Jeremy Nelson wrote: > > > Nikita <Nikita@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >Oh my, I hate to have to tell you guys this....but just got back from a > > >VERY LARGE bookstore, and they didn't have one book on Informix. > > > > You need to find a new VERY LARGE bookstore. The borders closest to > > where I work has quite a few books on informix (several dozen or so). > > Granted, there are several hundred books on oracle, but there certainly > > is plenty of available material for informix out there. > > > > -hop > > -- > > jfn@enteract.com > > Four > > Lines > > Suffice.
"Art S. Kagel" wrote: > Nikita wrote: > > > > "Mark D. Stock" wrote: > > > > > Nikita wrote: > >[SNIP] > > > > Hey, I never said that. ;-). I'm just expressing my views, as you guys were when > > you slammed Oracle, which > > prompted me to post in the first place. > > I have noticed that people tend to "muddy the leader" if they feel threatened. > > When I've seen people posting on other database newsgroups with questions about > > using other vendor's products, the responses aren't like I have seen here in the > > Informix group (and I just started poking around here) -- they are typically > > answered in a professional manner - not slamming that product at all. I would > > hope for the same from here....not a response of well, switch to Informix because > > that other db is a piece of crap kind of answer. > > Just my .02 cents > [SNIP] > > We don't slam Oracle out of frustration that it is such a superior product > to the one we all know and love. It is really out of frustration at > Informix for not being able to get the market coverage and name saturation > for what we all feel is a clearly superior product. We're just taking it > out on Oracle because we got tired of beating our brows against the walls > in Menlo Park. > > Art S. Kagel Did it hurt, Art ? Did it hurt beating your brows against the walls in Menlo Park ? Was it the good hurt or the bad hurt?? Tapan
In article <391056C1.20A41B67@bloomberg.net>, kagel@bloomberg.net wrote: > ..... > Oracle, Informix, Ingres (before it died), Sybase, Solid, Yard, System > 1022, > dbase (OK it's not a server), etc. .... Whoa there. Ingres has not died, not even in the US (where it admittedly is not particularly visible). Ingres II is a very competitive product and the upcoming 2.5 release has some significant enhancements. Unfortunately it's been cursed with completely incompetent marketing, from the old RTI days right up to the present. Karl