Oh dear ... Oracle buys Sun
Not a technical support thread but a 2009 discussion sparked by news that Oracle was buying Sun (after IBM's failed bid). Ian Gumby argued Sun gives Oracle access to IBM's 'white space' accounts and services revenue, and that IBM may suffer long term; Neil Truby disputed that Sun dominated the mid-market and wondered about IBM software on Solaris (DB2 does run there, per Eric Rowell). Another poster worried Oracle, as Solaris owner, might see DB2/Informix source for porting or performance fixes. Side chatter about keyword-stuffed sig blocks. No conclusion or resolution reached — pure speculation.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/21/technology/companies/21sun.html?_r=1&ref=business This could be bloody .... :o> -- Cheers, Obnoxio The Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com The following is a disclaimer and a protest at the collection, retention and sharing of my personal mail by the morally bankrupt state. By adding a string of key words, it will guarantee that each and every mail that I send will now need to be manually viewed as it is picked up by the auto scan software. If every person in the UK does exactly the same, then the entire system will quickly become so unmanageable, so unwieldy that it will become unworkable. Key words: bomb, assassinate, president, brown, Osama, Obama, arsebiscuit, Sarkozy, Merkel, government, target, location, rocket, grenade, al-Qaeda, knob-gobbler, Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, UK, America, guns, jets, bombs, cunts, machine-gun, terrorists, MP's, pigs, troughs, Gumby, France, Germany, Italy, nuclear, Korea. PPS If you are reading this because you've picked up the above keywords: I hope your parents are proud of what you have become. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by OpenProtect(http://www.openprotect.com), and is believed to be clean.
Obnoxio The Clown wrote: [...] There's a PPS but no PS. Must be gummint censorship in action? Are you sure the scoring doesn't go osama: terror += 10 gumby: terror -= 999999 -- RGB
On Apr 20, 9:24 am, RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBr...@spamweary.invalid> wrote: > Are you sure the scoring doesn't go > osama: terror += 10 > gumby: terror -= 999999 > > -- > RGB Aw shucks, what's the matter, you don't like it when I'm right? The plain simple truth is that if you bothered to think about it long enough, you'll have drawn the same conclusions. Things should get interesting. IBM has to look at the larger picture in that Sun control's IBM's 'white space'. Its a pretty big area. Sun's acquisition isn't a hardware play for IBM. Its a market space play. IBM can leverage the Sun acquistion in to a services play and that's where the revenue is. Hardware margins are thin. Software? IBM sells it all and captures revenue. Services has a good margin and when you consider IBM will continue to offshore and onshore H1B and L1 as they cut out the lower margin US based staff, they'll continue to have record revenue growth. If IBM doesn't step up to the plate and make yet another play for Sun, things could get ugly in IBM's future. If Oracle has Sun, Oracle controls IBM's white space. IBM will have a harder time breaking down the 'glass wall' and after Sam P squeezes out the margins, then retires, IBM will go through a decade of restructuring and rebuilding. The real interesting part is that Cisco never stepped up to the plate. Where they to bid, then things could have gotten interesting. But hey! What do I know? I was betting on Cisco. :-( -G PS. Putting a list of names/nouns at the bottom of your post in an effort to get it flagged isn't going to get the job done. You'll have to give the government(s) who are watching /reading these posts some credit. Having the words in a list would be filtered out automatically. Sorry for spoiling your stupid human trick. Now the real key would be to put together a nonsense paragraph with your key words randomly embedded. Just as if it were a modified 'hip-crime' that they used to pull over in nanae and other usenet group floods. But hey! What do I know? I never could get MI-5 or MI-6 straight on who did what. But I'm just a dumb yank. :-)
"Ian Michael Gumby" <im_gumby@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:8ffd8f92-ef33-4dc1-9ee6-d5490dd0bc83@f19g2000yqo.googlegroups.com... On Apr 20, 9:24 am, RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBr...@spamweary.invalid> wrote: > Are you sure the scoring doesn't go > osama: terror += 10 > gumby: terror -= 999999 > > -- > RGB >> If IBM doesn't step up to the plate and make yet another play for Sun, >> things could get ugly in IBM's future. If Oracle has Sun, Oracle controls >> IBM's white space. Well, in English, and assuming my translation from Geek to English is faithful, you're arguing that Sun is the dominant hardware vendor in the SMB market that IBM struggles in? And that through this dominant hardware position Oracle will be able to exclude IBM from software and services business? I don't agree with the original premise (that Sun is the dominant mid-market player). I do think that Oracle owning Sun would perhaps be a threat to existing IBM software on Sun installations in the medium term. Does DB2 run on Solaris? Lots of IDS sites do of course.
DB2 does run on solaris. I'm not sure how many people have it running like this but it does run. I look forward to see if a storm is brewing. Eric B. Rowell On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Neil Truby <neil.truby@ardenta.com> wrote: > "Ian Michael Gumby" <im_gumby@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:8ffd8f92-ef33-4dc1-9ee6-d5490dd0bc83@f19g2000yqo.googlegroups.com... > On Apr 20, 9:24 am, RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBr...@spamweary.invalid> > wrote: > > > Are you sure the scoring doesn't go > > osama: terror += 10 > > gumby: terror -= 999999 > > > > -- > > RGB > > >> If IBM doesn't step up to the plate and make yet another play for Sun, > >> things could get ugly in IBM's future. If Oracle has Sun, Oracle > controls > >> IBM's white space. > > Well, in English, and assuming my translation from Geek to English is > faithful, you're arguing that Sun is the dominant hardware vendor in the > SMB > market that IBM struggles in? And that through this dominant hardware > position Oracle will be able to exclude IBM from software and services > business? > > I don't agree with the original premise (that Sun is the dominant > mid-market > player). I do think that Oracle owning Sun would perhaps be a threat to > existing IBM software on Sun installations in the medium term. Does DB2 > run > on Solaris? Lots of IDS sites do of course. > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > -- Eric B. Rowell
> From: neil.truby@ardenta.com ace. > > Well, in English, and assuming my translation from Geek to English is > faithful, you're arguing that Sun is the dominant hardware vendor in the SMB > market that IBM struggles in? And that through this dominant hardware > position Oracle will be able to exclude IBM from software and services > business? > > I don't agree with the original premise (that Sun is the dominant mid-market > player). I do think that Oracle owning Sun would perhaps be a threat to > existing IBM software on Sun installations in the medium term. Does DB2 run > on Solaris? Lots of IDS sites do of course. > Neil, It isn't Greek but IBM sales geek talk. I said 'white space' (WS) and not SMB. SMB is small to medium businesses. Companies like Prairie Group Materials. They were a billion dollar concrete and brick supplier in the midwest. (Family sold out the concrete business to a Brazilian based construction group.) They would be considered SMB because their IT budget was pretty small, even though they were the dominant concrete pourer in a tri-state area. (Not including Western Michigan) 'White Space' includes corporations like CME (Chicago Mercantile Exchange), or Boston Scientific. Northern Trust could even be considered 'White Space' because IBM only has their mainframe business and there's this clear glass wall between the mainframe types and their LUW types. (Linux Windows Unix) which is also known as 'distributed' in IBM parlance. So the 'White Space' is a bit larger in market size. These are the companies that will only consider IBM as the vendor of last choice. This is mainly due to some of their people having bad experience with IBM as a vendor. Remember we're not talking about Information Management, or even Software group. We're talking about IBM's S&D (Sales and Distribution) and IBM's Global Services teams. And yes, I have seen IBM's bad corporate behavior first hand and have also talked with clients who experienced it. IBM's lack of presence is primarily due to IBM's own fault. This isn't a premise that Sun is a dominate player in the mid market. What I am saying is that Sun holds a large percentage of the mindshare of these customers. Large enough that were IBM to leverage Sun for additional services revenue, on just a portion of the customer base, IBM would recoup the cost of the acquisitions in a matter of a few years. The real question would be how the customer base would view IBM's acquisition of Sun. With respect to Oracle, they are the 800lb Gorilla. They are the market leader in the LUW space. Got to give them that. Add mySQL which has a lot of mind share, and they would have a clear dominance over the competition. Oracle would probably have to divest from mySQL if they wanted to survive an EU challenge. (My guess, but you can never tell with the EU and what they'll do. At least the FTC can easily be bought and sold by an American company... ;-) Oracle does have a lot of synergy with Sun and in terms of IBM's 'white space' Oracle is already present. So Oracle's purchase of Sun isn't for the same reason that IBM would want Sun. In fact the only reason that makes sense is that they don't want Sun to fall in the hands of IBM. Don't get me wrong, Oracle can make Sun profitable, even if they ran it as a wholly owned subsidiary and just restructured the management team. This is why things are getting interesting. With respect to the SMB space, mySQL has more traction than Informix or Oracle. We went through that price problem on the TPC-C benchmark. And yes, I did go back and check out Oracle's 'term' pricing. It makes sense if you consider that if you change hardware platforms you'll have to buy new licenses. So if you priced out 10 years of term pricing and maintenance, and 10 years of Informix and then maintenance, you'll still save money. Which is something IBM has to address. But instead of Oracle, you have mySQL and Postgres that are much cheaper and while mySQL doesn't scale, Postgres does if you consider Greenplum. And note I never even brought up the SQLServer solution from Microsoft. So IBM now looks like the evil borg trying to assimilate Sun and Oracle looks like their savior. That's the perception and I'm getting more positive feedback from my contacts who are Sun shops. Does that make sense? If you want more examples, I'll share them with you offline. -G _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail®: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009
On 20 Apr, 18:26, Eric Rowell <erow...@gmail.com> wrote: > DB2 does run on solaris. I'm not sure how many people have it running like > this but it does run. > > I look forward to see if a storm is brewing. > > Eric B. Rowell > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Neil Truby <neil.tr...@ardenta.com> wrote: > > "Ian Michael Gumby" <im_gu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >news:8ffd8f92-ef33-4dc1-9ee6-d5490dd0bc83@f19g2000yqo.googlegroups.com... > > On Apr 20, 9:24 am, RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBr...@spamweary.invalid> > > wrote: > > > > Are you sure the scoring doesn't go > > > osama: terror += 10 > > > gumby: terror -= 999999 > > > > -- > > > RGB > > > >> If IBM doesn't step up to the plate and make yet another play for Sun, > > >> things could get ugly in IBM's future. If Oracle has Sun, Oracle > > controls > > >> IBM's white space. > > > Well, in English, and assuming my translation from Geek to English is > > faithful, you're arguing that Sun is the dominant hardware vendor in the > > SMB > > market that IBM struggles in? And that through this dominant hardware > > position Oracle will be able to exclude IBM from software and services > > business? > > > I don't agree with the original premise (that Sun is the dominant > > mid-market > > player). I do think that Oracle owning Sun would perhaps be a threat to > > existing IBM software on Sun installations in the medium term. Does DB2 > > run > > on Solaris? Lots of IDS sites do of course. > > > _______________________________________________ > > Informix-list mailing list > > Informix-l...@iiug.org > >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > > -- > Eric B. Rowell- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Right so any problems IBM has getting DB2 or Informix to run on Solaris (including performance issues) and they have to give their propriety source code to....their competitor...hmm how does that work then? "Our XXX that gives as an advantage over you does not run correctly, we think it is a compiler issue" "...just give us your source code..." In fact I'm pretty sure sun would have the source code to db2 and informix already so what stops the database team at oracle "sneaking a peek" as to why the DB2/Informix code runs faster or better if it does? So how is that fair? We already know about Oracle and the 11 developers from Informix. "http://news.cnet.com/Informix-says-Oracle-is-sleazy/ 2100-1023_3-264680.html" now they have access to the source code!
Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > On Apr 20, 9:24 am, RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBr...@spamweary.invalid> > wrote: > >> Are you sure the scoring doesn't go >> osama: terror += 10 >> gumby: terror -= 999999 >> > Aw shucks, what's the matter, you don't like it when I'm right? I was commenting on OTC's signature, specifically his choice of keywords. I was suggesting that ECHELON might discard his posting due to the prevalence of fluffy bunny words. I only saw your posting because a later commenter quoted a quotation of something I'd posted :-) -- RGB
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:38:01 +0100 > From: RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid > Subject: Re: Oh dear ... Oracle buys Sun > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > On Apr 20, 9:24 am, RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBr...@spamweary.invalid> > > wrote: > > > >> Are you sure the scoring doesn't go > >> osama: terror += 10 > >> gumby: terror -= 999999 > >> > > Aw shucks, what's the matter, you don't like it when I'm right? > > I was commenting on OTC's signature, specifically his choice of > keywords. I was suggesting that ECHELON might discard his posting due to > the prevalence of fluffy bunny words. > > I only saw your posting because a later commenter quoted a quotation of > something I'd posted :-) > > -- > RGB Oh. It'd get tossed for the simple fact that the 'fluffy bunny words' are in a list and not spread out as if in a sentence. That's why I mentioned the hip-crimes thing. These nut jobs would post nonsensical passages in Usenet posts to elude the automated filters. You take their stuff, add the right set of 'fluffy bunny words' and you'll start to hit a red flag and require human intervention. The other interesting part is that hip-crimes would also forge Usenet headers when they flooded a group, making it harder to trace who was doing it. So yeah, OTC's fluffy words are ineffective. _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage2_042009